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How much of a premium are we talking for newsstand issues v/s direct editions?
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1,113 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, newshane said:

Premium for newsstand? 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wouldn't be surprised if some of the posters here have already paid one. I've paid up to 10x for newsstand comics and regularly pay 2x-4x.

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22 hours ago, Cpt Kirk said:

I do have this one... but wow... 9.8.   Nicely done dude!

Thanks, I’m surprised at all the 9.6 numbers in the census. I snagged it off World Wide Comics years ago. I was so excited I didn’t realize it was a newsstand edition until after I paid for it. 

Edited by Brandon Shepherd
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8 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

One of the very, VERY unfortunate side effects of CGC not distinguishing newsstand editions is this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CGC-GRADED-COMIC-AMAZING-SPIDER-MAN-298-9-8-WHITE-PAGES-/133181389243?hash=item1f023ab9bb%3Ag%3AQ-sAAOSwwI1diTVC&nma=true&si=tf82LCWf7jRSN6jsjwM4vJKD1pw%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

ASM #298 newsstand 9.8 sold for $760.

But because it's not distinguished, it's reported in GPA as a standard sale (the highest ever recorded), and will eventually get buried. People doing research in the future will not know that that price was for a NEWSSTAND edition, and it will have a gravitational effect on prices of Direct versions.

How many other examples are there like this on GPA....?

Seemingly a lot! Made me kind of give up on it :( but I've noticed it too :foryou: 

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39 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Seemingly a lot! Made me kind of give up on it :( but I've noticed it too :foryou: 

It's my opinion that, at least for the timeframe prior to about 2016 at least, that the market didn't pay too much attention to the difference, and it's only been the last 3-4 years that people have been paying a noticeable premium for (undistinguished) newsstands. The practical result of that is that GPA is probably not too corrupted in this way.

But...it would be a good project for someone to maintain a database of newsstand prices achieved that GPA doesn't (because they can't) distinguish.

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5 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

It's my opinion that, at least for the timeframe prior to about 2016 at least, that the market didn't pay too much attention to the difference, and it's only been the last 3-4 years that people have been paying a noticeable premium for (undistinguished) newsstands. The practical result of that is that GPA is probably not too corrupted in this way.

But...it would be a good project for someone to maintain a database of newsstand prices achieved that GPA doesn't (because they can't) distinguish.

Ya, I agree that GPA should start and take notice (thumbsu I know when I joined in 2016 that my view on newsstands were, if the copy I found affordable was a newsstand then cool, but now I believe it's being sought out on purpose or at least more now than a couple of years ago. :foryou: Even online retailers such as Dave and Adams have priced Copper Newsstands accordingly. They used to have a "white pages" copy priced a little higher, now if it is a "newsstand" too then up it goes.....

Seemingly, at least with D&A, it still seems a little random on which newsstands that they take notice of, but it's a start! :headbang: 

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1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

GPA can't do anything about it. They're built into the CGC database, and GPA can't manually go through every listing and distinguish. If it's not notated on the label or in the CGC system, there's not much they can do about it.

ah that stinks :( 

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Still you think that there would be "a way" somehow lol

I'm sure this is not the first time that they've run into this kind of "issue" before, and if there WAS a way they'd have done it before now. 

I guess your right in the fact the ball is in CGC's court. Perhaps if labeled, then GPA could have a more automated way of distinguishing.

I won't begin to think how it'll all come about, I just hope there is some kind of resolution. This would make it more prevalent if it was noticed, but I don't think that newsstands are quite main stream enough yet....

Edited by ADAMANTIUM
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1 hour ago, paqart said:

How do cover variants factor into overall print run? Are they counted as part of direct run, without distinguishing covers? How do cover variant prices compare to counterpart newsstand prices?

This seems to be some of everyone's concern and issues with determining real numbers as they do not seem to offer in detail from the printers or even order numbers.  Say for example DC wanted 100,000 of a book printed and they have a 1:10 , 1:50, 1:100, 1:500 Variants. It seems to be unknown if those were printed in addition to the total of part of it. Meaning if in addition to they actually printed a total of 113,200 books. On top of that say 30% were printed for Newsstand,  again would they take those from the 100,000 or in addition and how many of those were returned? All of this is what many have speculated on and is why you see numbers all over the place. Without factual data from the printers it is hard to determine any true data. More modern books with the different prices have actually started to be broken out more on the CGC data which helps shed some light on what's been graded, but no real way to determine how many were printed and if this was + or - total print run.

5 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Still you think that there would be "a way" somehow lol

I'm sure this is not the first time that they've run into this kind of "issue" before, and if there WAS a way they'd have done it before now. 

I guess your right in the fact the ball is in CGC's court. Perhaps if labeled, then GPA could have a more automated way of distinguishing.

I won't begin to think how it'll all come about, I just hope there is some kind of resolution. This would make it more prevalent if it was noticed, but I don't think that newsstands are quite main stream enough yet....

I have to agree. Something needs to be done to address these issues and ideally CGC would just break out every distinction for each book as they are different in some way or another (as with print errors) for now a decent work around for GPA would be something they already have somewhat in place. There system for outliers.  If a book sells for an extremely high or low price they hold to determine if new prices are set or if it was just a " one off" when a book flags this they could seperate them into a review folder and determine if it was something that caused this increase.  Such as a Newsstand,  Variant, or other factor and break it out as well.

Edited by onlyweaknesskryptonite
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That is also some of the issues I have with these "manufactured" numbers. They say the have a rare  1:100 or higher book yet we that is not really saying how many were printed.  Even those that state only so many were printed (think foreign Panini , Dino , or US RRPs) where they state only 800 examples or 250 in the case of the Superman Wedding RRP there has been evidence that even those may not be completely factual.  I have and have seen several that are not numbered in these or in other cases PP ( Printers Proof) That are in addition to subsequent numbers . On top of that they had to print more to obtain the actual print run for errors/damage and have seen where these still make it into circulation.  So it's a guess as to how many of any book are actually "out there" or were printed to begin with. Sort of actually obtaining real print data directly from the printers. Here are some examples:

Superman #75 no printed number on back of book

20191014_185451.jpg.03ba227647e3127b87b4ae931221d4d8.jpg

Batman/Superman #4 PP/50 

m1.thumb.jpg.8dd0eaff0afe7da620d4c494f4d97ecd.jpg

m2.thumb.jpg.cab423cc5b0c21f4f06697fc3467419f.jpg

Batman Museum Edition (not numbered)IMG_20190317_202947952.thumb.jpg.ec4afce2015dad5114488418a9253192.jpg

just to show a few..

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I also ran into the same issues with non sports cards when I collected those long ago.. that the printers or distributors would have uncut sheets and/or rare inserts/promos/ signature cards either leave magically after the prices went up or where employees would take some from the line outside of "total released officially " and flood the market. Making some realize they had actually printed more than they stated,but held onto them.

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And the sad thing is...none of these people are ever held to account.

I have been buying a certain "1 of 100" variant for many years now. I have 40 copies. I've always wondered if they were actually limited to 100, as the publisher claims, or if they made more. You would think that, for an edition specifically limited to 100, they would print 120 or so, pick out the acceptable copies, and destroy the rest so that it's an actual "1 of 100."

But I would be very naive to imagine that's actually the case. Books that are limited to 100, with a pretty decent following, should be a lot harder to find than some of them are. 

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2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

And the sad thing is...none of these people are ever held to account.

I have been buying a certain "1 of 100" variant for many years now. I have 40 copies. I've always wondered if they were actually limited to 100, as the publisher claims, or if they made more. You would think that, for an edition specifically limited to 100, they would print 120 or so, pick out the acceptable copies, and destroy the rest so that it's an actual "1 of 100."

But I would be very naive to imagine that's actually the case. Books that are limited to 100, with a pretty decent following, should be a lot harder to find than some of them are. 

I completely agree. This is what made me sell off a TON of my non sports cards. Was the realization that a lot of the numbers didn't add up. Several of those I had acquired were more than there officially stated print distribution.  On top of many uncut sheets and mid print run sheets that too were "never distributed" , yet here they were.. so once I came to that realization I didn't trust them to hold their value.  Several times during the initial sell off,  I watched the value just drop. Same with some of the comics "retailers limited numbers" 1:100.. those have worried me the same. That's retailers distribution numbers which most know mean for every 100 the retailers order they get 1.. that isn't to say they didn't print 5 or 10 to 1 just incase of error, damage (both in house and transit/return) as well as overages,  press reviews/ previews, review copies, distributor copies, company copies, promotional (cons/give away) copies,  etc.. I have just been waiting for a comic to break that mark where the number of graded comics is more than stated print distribution. Congratulations on the 40 of 100! You might be the one to break the number.. 

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On 2/17/2014 at 1:11 PM, slym2none said:

I ask this solely because I am sending some books off to CGC and wanted to include my UXM 282, so as I was looking it over, I noticed it isn't but in 9.4 shape (yes, a press would help, but I am time-constrained RN) BUT it is a newsstand version. So, for my direct case, would it still be worth sending in as a 9.4 since it is a newsstand? And in the general sense, how much more collectable are newsstand editions v/s their direct edition counterparts overall?

 

Any and all comments are welcome, and thanks in advance!

 

 

 

-slym

perhaps, but it's been almost 6 years since slym started this thread. :shy:

Edited by divad
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13 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

It's my opinion that, at least for the timeframe prior to about 2016 at least, that the market didn't pay too much attention to the difference, and it's only been the last 3-4 years that people have been paying a noticeable premium for (undistinguished) newsstands. The practical result of that is that GPA is probably not too corrupted in this way.

(see above for context)

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