How much of a premium are we talking for newsstand issues v/s direct editions? 10 10

[divad]

boo-freakin'-hoo 

[paqart]

15 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Maybe it'll inspire you to get off your high horse....

Only a person mounted on a steed taller than the stars above could write such a line. Congratulations, space cadet, you win the no-prize of the day.

[paqart]

Getting back to the ostensible subject of this thread, the premium charged or paid for newsstand editions, is there any consensus on this? The prices I've seen range from a zero multiplier to a 1000% price jump for newsstand editions. The least I've paid (frequently) is the 0% premium, the highest is around 500%. The higher premiums have been paid on comics that are the least expensive in the direct edition and vice versa. So, the ASM 299 and 301 that I bought slabbed yesterday had no newsstand premium, though they were both newsstand editions. On the other hand, I paid $28.50 for one of my ASM V2 #30's, or about a 450% premium over Overstreet. My opinion, the V2 #30 should be worth more than the ASM 299 or 301 because it is a lot harder to find, is from the same highly collectible title, and contains the first appearance of a couple of important characters, though admittedly not as important (yet) as Venom.

If one takes a look at Mile High's ebay listings and compares them to their online prices, it becomes evident quickly that they charge about 30% of the prices on their site when selling on ebay. However, the ebay copies all appear to be in VF or lower grades, many in F or lower. Are they just dumping the lower grades and keeping the high grades at the higher prices? Either way, I have only seen a couple examples of other sellers trying to achieve a 10X multiplier on their newsstand editions, and I'm not convinced they were successful. There are two dealers I've bought a lot of comics from who charge about 2x to 3x for recent newsstands. Since the comics aren't that expensive as directs, the multiplier doesn't bother me. That said, the more I buy (I've bought about 400 newsstand editions in the last month), the fewer are available. The sellers I've bought from don't seem to replenish their stock of newsstands. Once they're gone, they don't come back as frequently as directs.

Based on the foregoing, I believe the current going rate for post 2000 newsstand editions is between 2x-3x the direct price. This is because I have bought dozens of comics myself at those prices and have seen many others go to other buyers in the same range. I have also seen them sell at 4x-5x (have even paid that myself) but that is less common. Above that, I see the comics hang around and then get relisted. Mile High is definitely pushing the envelope with their 10x prices. My impression is that they know it won't be easy to restock once they have sold, and they have a good idea exactly how rare they are because of the large volumes they deal with. For those reasons, they have decided to wait to sell at a price that reflects the difficulty of finding replacement stock even if it means no sales for some time.

For my part, I have a hard time picturing myself spending 10x for a newsstand edition but that is only because I can still find them at lower prices. When that changes, my attitude toward the price may change also. ASM 300 is too expensive for me to buy anywhere outside of a garage sale at garage sale prices but I don't doubt that the pricing is appropriate because it sells so often at high prices and can't easily be found at any kind of bargain price. Ultimately it is availability that drives the prices and modern newsstand variants are currently less available than ASM 300, though most lack the cachet of introducing a major character like Venom. They do exist however. The Hulk Planet storyline starts in 2008's Hulk #92, Old Man Logan in Wolverine V2 #67 (or 66?), first Ronin in New Avengers, first Miles Morales, etc. 

Rarity for its own sake is not something that all collectors care about. That said, enough collectors cared about it to drive the price of the Star Wars #1 price variant to just under $30,000. If that can happen, it can happen with newsstand variants also, keeping in mind that the price variant group that SW #1 was a part of only yielded one comic worth almost $30k. On the low end, other 30 cent variants from the time are from $100-$300, depending on the content. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, paqart said:

16 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Maybe it'll inspire you to get off your high horse....

Only a person mounted on a steed taller than the stars above could write such a line. Congratulations, space cadet, you win the no-prize of the day.

You open the door, you ought not be surprised that people walk through it.

 

[paqart]

39 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You open the door, you ought not be surprised that people walk through it.

 

And sometimes, it's hard to tell which side of the door you are on.

[RockMyAmadeus]

8 minutes ago, paqart said:

And sometimes, it's hard to tell which side of the door you are on.

[paqart]

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You are obviously a hilarious guy. However, you are preventing many attempts to have a conversation on the subject of newsstand edition pricing, thanks to your obdurate interest in blocking those attempts on the basis that you know better than everyone else. Gotta say, not a lot of fun to be around. That's one thing that Nobel has on you on in spades. His posts are fun to read and inspiring. Yours, as I wrote previously, are enough to inspire a person to quit the hobby altogether. Last night I contemplated switching a pending CGC order to CBCS just to punish CGC for allowing you on this forum. I still may do it. It comes down to how much relative value would be lost for the sake of pique. Seriously, do you have any idea how poisonous your negative attitude is? I happen to be obdurate myself but am not that interested in pursuing any conversation here on any subject as long as the potential exists for you to leer your way in and kill the conversation, as you do so well and so often. Any mention of rarecomics.com (done for your benefit here) and you shut down the conversation. Same for mentions of print runs, percentages allocated to print vs newsstands, etc. Why do you bother? That makes me wonder why I bother. I mean, who am I? I only used to draw comics for a living, one of which became a TV series, and worked on two Marvel movies, on top of starting my career in comics at the age of twelve working at a comic book store. I can't possibly have anything to contribute to this forum next to you, whoever you are.

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, paqart said:

You are obviously a hilarious guy. However, you are preventing many attempts to have a conversation on the subject of newsstand edition pricing, thanks to your obdurate interest in blocking those attempts on the basis that you know better than everyone else. Gotta say, not a lot of fun to be around. That's one thing that Nobel has on you on in spades. His posts are fun to read and inspiring. Yours, as I wrote previously, are enough to inspire a person to quit the hobby altogether. Last night I contemplated switching a pending CGC order to CBCS just to punish CGC for allowing you on this forum. I still may do it. It comes down to how much relative value would be lost for the sake of pique. Seriously, do you have any idea how poisonous your negative attitude is? I happen to be obdurate myself but am not that interested in pursuing any conversation here on any subject as long as the potential exists for you to leer your way in and kill the conversation, as you do so well and so often. Any mention of rarecomics.com (done for your benefit here) and you shut down the conversation. Same for mentions of print runs, percentages allocated to print vs newsstands, etc. Why do you bother? That makes me wonder why I bother. I mean, who am I? I only used to draw comics for a living, one of which became a TV series, and worked on two Marvel movies, on top of starting my career in comics at the age of twelve working at a comic book store. I can't possibly have anything to contribute to this forum next to you, whoever you are.

You have a very, VERY high opinion of yourself. That's good. At least someone does.

[paqart]

7 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You have a very, VERY high opinion of yourself. That's good. At least someone does.

Thanks for making my decision for me. I'll be cancelling my CGC account and go elsewhere for grading. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 minutes ago, paqart said:

Thanks for making my decision for me. I'll be cancelling my CGC account and go elsewhere for grading. 

That's probably a good idea. The people at CGC work very hard; I'd rather have them grading than dealing with complaints.

[revat]

1 minute ago, paqart said:

9 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You have a very, VERY high opinion of yourself. That's good. At least someone does.

Thanks for making my decision for me. I'll be cancelling my CGC account and go elsewhere for grading. 

I'm not saying you should or should not do anything, but there is an ignore function here on the boards.

Also, you should know that there is an option to report posts that are 'over the line', whatever the line may be, although I'm not sure that the appearance of an overwhelmingly negative attitude about aspects of data science or a specific website would fall under those auspices.

While I think both of you have tiptoed on occasion near the line, I don't think either of you have really crossed it, though I can agree its not fun to be drawn towards the line.  From my reading, I don't think you guys are as far apart as it seems on the actual science, essentially scientists arguing over the weight given to certain sources of information.

Side One:  We can use this information in this instance, even if anecdotal or from questionable sources, because we do so knowingly with reservation and qualification, because it is the best evidence available.

Side Two:  We cannot use this information at all, the source is too questionable and using it lends unreasonable credibility to the source that may negatively impact others who choose to rely on that source for other things.  If it can't be independently verified, we cannot use it to support any decision making or assumptions.

 

Ironically, without being too political, I think this chasm is the heart of one of the key political debates in society just now. 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 minutes ago, revat said:

I'm not saying you should or should not do anything, but there is an ignore function here on the boards.

There is indeed.

3 minutes ago, revat said:

 ...the appearance of an overwhelmingly negative attitude about...

Don't buy into the propaganda, revat.

4 minutes ago, revat said:

Side Two:  We cannot use this information at all, the source is too questionable and using it lends unreasonable credibility to the source that may negatively impact others who choose to rely on that source for other things.  If it can't be independently verified, we cannot use it to support any decision making or assumptions.

It's not a "source"...it's a methodology that doesn't apply. It's just math that is being used improperly.

[ADAMANTIUM]

@Buzzetta

31 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

36 minutes ago, paqart said:

Thanks for making my decision for me. I'll be cancelling my CGC account and go elsewhere for grading. 

That's probably a good idea. The people at CGC work very hard; I'd rather have them grading than dealing with complaints.

going down.... allllll the way!  

[RockMyAmadeus]

4 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

going down.... allllll the way!  

Settle down there, sparky...

 

[revat]

20 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

25 minutes ago, revat said:

 ...the appearance of an overwhelmingly negative attitude about...

Don't buy into the propaganda, revat.

that's why I said 'appearance'.  I think of it as 'appropriately negative'.    If nothing else, you're consistent on this issue, and enthusiastic on this topic.  I believe you have genuine interest, and have thought it through and discussed it at length, and rarely if ever disagree with your points (if not always your tone or delivery, but that's understandably subjective). 

 

Your argument broken out is that there's a Star Wars website that says the following things:

1.  Mark Hamill was paid $40K for the 1st Star Wars movie.

2.  Attack of the CLones is the best Star Wars movie.

3.  The moon landing was fake.

4.  Someone did something with 30/35 cent Star Wars variants that is clearly a self-aggrandizing lie which is the basis for purported expertise on the issue.

5.  Someone had tons of contact with industry insiders at some point.

 

As a result, you're not trusting #1 without other independent evidence.

 

 

 

The weird thing that almost inevitably comes up when you're arguing with someone about this topic (and related ones), is that people seem to think that you are making the argument that you RMA are an authority on the topic based on your tone and your firmly held beliefs.  But upon closer reading, you're almost always arguing that you RMA actually know very little about the topic, and that NO ONE does, because there isn't much reliable evidence out there to support ANY (or very many assumptions).  You're only expert enough to know that no one should be claiming to be expert, and that anyone who does claim it without evidence shouldn't be trusted.  Even more so if you're doing a 'study' that seems to be 'science' based.  I think if you look at RMA as a scientific ombudsman (who works for free!), you'll get a lot of value out of him.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by revat

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

8 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

going down.... allllll the way!  

Settle down there, sparky...

Just own it  @Buzzetta has said the same to people  no reason to act like you don't treat people like that  it doesn't magically go away.....

[ADAMANTIUM]

@RockMyAmadeus It's all good  I just was giving you the opportunity to recant  we all have bad day's!  @Buzzetta will understand.... I thought it was all in fun  

[RockMyAmadeus]

13 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Just own it  @Buzzetta has said the same to people  no reason to act like you don't treat people like that  it doesn't magically go away.....

"Consider the source." That's what always gets "forgotten"...or ignored.

Check your bias, friend.

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

Just now, RockMyAmadeus said:

14 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Just own it  @Buzzetta has said the same to people  no reason to act like you don't treat people like that  it doesn't magically go away.....

"Consider the source." That's what always gets "forgotten"...or ignored.

Check your bias, friend.

I haven't been in any "click" and can't comprehend or even pretend to know what it's all about  SO as YOU WELL KNOW, I'm always in over my head  

I was just trying to poke fun at you, I don't harbor feelings towards anyone here, but sometimes it IS saddening, I'm not the savior of the boards.......

[RockMyAmadeus]

7 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

@RockMyAmadeus It's all good  I just was giving you the opportunity to recant  we all have bad day's!  @Buzzetta will understand.... I thought it was all in fun  

No "bad day" here, and nothing to recant. Having a great time.  I would say bad day's what, but...you know.  Perhaps @Buzzetta would understand, perhaps he wouldn't...but I'm sure being summoned over and over again isn't fun for him.

Poor Buzz....