How much of a premium are we talking for newsstand issues v/s direct editions? 10 10

[valiantman]

27 minutes ago, Crimebuster said:

I'm guessing most of the newsstand books from the mid 2000s on that were printed ended up destroyed anyway.

I worked in the magazine department at a large Barnes and Noble in 2006 and my job was restocking magazines and the stripping the covers off unsold copies to return for a refund. That included comics, as newsstand versions were still returnable, unlike direct editions. I know at my location over the several months I did this we sold very few comics; probably 80-90% of our comics went unsold and were destroyed by me personally. 

That's good info to know, because we may be able to determine how many (percentage-wise) were printed for newsstand, but the other big factor is the destruction of unsold newsstands while direct editions live on forever.

[Lazyboy]

5 hours ago, Crimebuster said:

I'm guessing most of the newsstand books from the mid 2000s on that were printed ended up destroyed anyway.

In theory, the majority of comics printed for the newsstand market have been destroyed for most of the comic industry's history, both before and after the Direct market began. In practice, we know that many unsold copies that should have been destroyed were not. The real question is how many, which we'll never know, though we do have stories about hoards both large and small.

5 hours ago, Crimebuster said:

That included comics, as newsstand versions were still returnable

Newsstand editions are/were always returnable. That's how that system works (or doesn't, depending on who you ask).

[maidenmate91]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

In theory, the majority of comics printed for the newsstand market have been destroyed for most of the comic industry's history, both before and after the Direct market began. In practice, we know that many unsold copies that should have been destroyed were not. The real question is how many, which we'll never know, though we do have stories about hoards both large and small.

Newsstand editions are/were always returnable. That's how that system works (or doesn't, depending on who you ask).

I never considered this when weighing the possible ratio of direct vs newsstand. I always went by a year to % printed guide. This is a great point, it was supposed to be that if it didn't sell the cover was ripped off, and the book was sent back for a credit. 

Like you stated who actually did that is unknown, still something to consider in a discussion about the premium value of a newsstand. 

Example - post 2006: hypothetical 12% newsstand on the market. How many of these weren't destroyed?!

Also found this article post writing this response. It's a good informative read. 

https://rarecomics.wordpress.com/why-are-newsstand-comics-worth-more/

Edited June 16, 2020 by maidenmate91
Added information

[Cpt Kirk]

On 6/15/2020 at 3:30 PM, Crimebuster said:

I'm guessing most of the newsstand books from the mid 2000s on that were printed ended up destroyed anyway.

I worked in the magazine department at a large Barnes and Noble in 2006 and my job was restocking magazines and the stripping the covers off unsold copies to return for a refund. That included comics, as newsstand versions were still returnable, unlike direct editions. I know at my location over the several months I did this we sold very few comics; probably 80-90% of our comics went unsold and were destroyed by me personally. 

wow... what a great first-hand story.   I recall seeing CGC story thread where there was another guy who worked at Barnes & Noble.  But instead of throwing them all in the trash, he took some home (in other words, stole them).  There were some high value newsstand issues in there (some of the first issues of New 52, plus some of the last issues of the original iines of DC comics).  He then sold them to a guy, who in turn sold a Superman New 52 #8 newsstand to me from that stash.  It was the last newsstand issue that I had not yet found.

[Lazyboy]

18 hours ago, maidenmate91 said:

Also found this article post writing this response. It's a good informative read. 

https://rarecomics.wordpress.com/why-are-newsstand-comics-worth-more/

No, no, no, no, no.

Benjamin Nobel is interested only in pumping the perception and value of Newsstand editions, in which he is heavily invested. That article contains all the same faulty assumptions, logical missteps, hype, and other garbage that appear in everything he writes.

As I've acknowledged before, there is some good information on his site. The problem is that it is dwarfed by the misleading .

[Randall Dowling]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

No, no, no, no, no.

Benjamin Nobel is interested only in pumping the perception and value of Newsstand editions, in which he is heavily invested. That article contains all the same faulty assumptions, logical missteps, hype, and other garbage that appear in everything he writes.

As I've acknowledged before, there is some good information on his site. The problem is that it is dwarfed by the misleading .

I don't understand why you're down on him.  I read the article and from what I can tell, the future of collecting is 9.8 newsstand editions of comics from the 1990s and 2000s.  Particularly, Spawn.  

[maidenmate91]

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

No, no, no, no, no.

Benjamin Nobel is interested only in pumping the perception and value of Newsstand editions, in which he is heavily invested. That article contains all the same faulty assumptions, logical missteps, hype, and other garbage that appear in everything he writes.

As I've acknowledged before, there is some good information on his site. The problem is that it is dwarfed by the misleading .

Oh my mistake I was not aware. As I stated I don't know a ton about the subject. I invest in newsstand for the  fun of the hunt. 

[fastballspecial]

3 hours ago, Cpt Kirk said:

wow... what a great first-hand story.   I recall seeing CGC story thread where there was another guy who worked at Barnes & Noble.  But instead of throwing them all in the trash, he took some home (in other words, stole them).  There were some high value newsstand issues in there (some of the first issues of New 52, plus some of the last issues of the original iines of DC comics).  He then sold them to a guy, who in turn sold a Superman New 52 #8 newsstand to me from that stash.  It was the last newsstand issue that I had not yet found.

I think of it as a sliding downward scale from 2001 and down. Each year I assume more difficult then the next. 

[waaaghboss]

9 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

I don't understand why you're down on him.  I read the article and from what I can tell, the future of collecting is 9.8 newsstand editions of comics from the 1990s and 2000s.  Particularly, Spawn.  

The future is prewar comics imo

 

*ducks*

[Cpt Kirk]

19 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

I think of it as a sliding downward scale from 2001 and down. Each year I assume more difficult then the next. 

I would agree.  The exception is that they can be pretty easily found from about 2012 until the last year they were made.   That is when people started collecting and speculating with them when many people became aware of the topic.   Of course, they can be expensive after 2012 for that reason.   The other exception is that toward the last year of DC newsstands, (that is, 2017) some can be really hard to find because of spotty and low distribution.  

[ramrod44]

X-Force #2 cgc 9.8 newsstand just sold on eBay for $130+. Multiple copies of cgc 9.8 direct on eBay for BIN of less than $60. 

[valiantman]

An appropriate comparison to post-2000 newsstands may be the 35-cent variants of 1977, where all of them are certainly tougher to find, but if the direct edition isn't a key, it's going to be mainly the "hard core" collectors who are willing to pay a premium for newsstand. 

The same is potentially true for post-2000 variants (limited ratios), where the long term outlook of non-key issues isn't good no matter the rarity.  Sure, some collectors will always pay a small premium for post-2000 newsstand or 1:X ratio variants, but if the direct edition is a $3 book, it would be surprising if the newsstands and ratio variants are consistently $30+. 

The obvious post-2000 danger is non-key ratio issue variants selling for $1,000+ when the direct edition is $3.  Newsstands have a long way to go to be that dangerous, since most newsstands are barely 3 times the direct edition price... nothing like 300 times for some of the non-key issues with 1:X ratio books.

Edited June 26, 2020 by valiantman

[ramrod44]

2 minutes ago, valiantman said:

An appropriate comparison to post-2000 newsstands may be the 35-cent variants of 1977, where all of them are certainly tougher to find, but if the direct edition isn't a key, it's going to be "hard core" collectors who are willing to pay a premium for newsstand.  The same is potentially true for post-2000 variants (limited ratios), where the long term outlook of non-key issues isn't good no matter the rarity.  Sure, some collectors will always pay a small premium for post-2000 newsstand, but if the direct edition is a $1 book, it would be surprising if the newsstands are consistently $10+.

[ADAMANTIUM]

10 minutes ago, valiantman said:

An appropriate comparison to post-2000 newsstands may be the 35-cent variants of 1977, where all of them are certainly tougher to find, but if the direct edition isn't a key, it's going to be mainly the "hard core" collectors who are willing to pay a premium for newsstand. 

The same is potentially true for post-2000 variants (limited ratios), where the long term outlook of non-key issues isn't good no matter the rarity.  Sure, some collectors will always pay a small premium for post-2000 newsstand or 1:X ratio variants, but if the direct edition is a $3 book, it would be surprising if the newsstands and ratio variants are consistently $30+. 

The obvious post-2000 danger is non-key ratio issue variants selling for $1,000+ when the direct edition is $3.  Newsstands have a long way to go to be that dangerous, since most newsstands are barely 3 times the direct edition price... nothing like 300 times for some of the non-key issues with 1:X ratio books.

..... there are Newsstands but then price variant or Edition newsstands, does what you say about the hardcore collectors and direct Edition still apply?

I mean regular Newsstand post 2000 dont seem nearly as sought after as price editions, but I'm wondering specifically your thoughts on price variant editions that are not key books compared to regular Newsstand non price variant Edition that are also not keys both post 2000's (?)

Edited June 26, 2020 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

I wish acronyms would catch on with these, cause the clarification and description is repetitive and long

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

5 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

..... there are Newsstands but then price variant or Edition newsstands, does what you say about the hardcore collectors and direct Edition still apply?

I mean regular Newsstand post 2000 dont seem nearly as sought after as price editions, but I'm wondering specifically your thoughts on price variant editions that are not key books compared to regular Newsstand non price variant Edition that are also not keys both post 2000's (?)

I've come to where I'll pick up any price "variant" edition Newsstand 

But just regular post 2000 Newsstand?  I'll pick up some that are keys, if you consider wonder woman 189 Hughes cover and batman 609 "keys"

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

Oye 

For some odd reason I thought I was in the modern section 

My bad!

[valiantman]

21 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

..... there are Newsstands but then price variant or Edition newsstands, does what you say about the hardcore collectors and direct Edition still apply?

I mean regular Newsstand post 2000 dont seem nearly as sought after as price editions, but I'm wondering specifically your thoughts on price variant editions that are not key books compared to regular Newsstand non price variant Edition that are also not keys both post 2000's (?)

I think the price variant books have an "extra" factor so you'd expect to see a few more collectors for newsstand price variants, but without the underlying direct edition (regular price) book mattering, it's hard to see how any price variant could jump up 100 times the regular price... meanwhile, you've got modern variants of $5 books selling for $500+ with no differences inside the pages, and that seems a lot like what someone once described as "a beautiful dive of 2½ somersaults with 2½ twists that will eventually end up headfirst in the kiddie pool".

[Lazyboy]

2 hours ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

..... there are Newsstands but then price variant or Edition newsstands, does what you say about the hardcore collectors and direct Edition still apply?

I mean regular Newsstand post 2000 dont seem nearly as sought after as price editions, but I'm wondering specifically your thoughts on price variant editions that are not key books compared to regular Newsstand non price variant Edition that are also not keys both post 2000's (?)

AFAIK, there are only a handful of Newsstand price variants and they came out in 1999.

[ADAMANTIUM]

Just now, Lazyboy said:

AFAIK, there are only a handful of Newsstand price variants and they came out in 1999.

I know what your saying, they're called Newsstand price "Edition" , I was trying to say that the price varies.... to be more specific

Not trying to call them variants and I dont think that I did