How much of a premium are we talking for newsstand issues v/s direct editions? 10 10

[ADAMANTIUM]

As far as moderns there are price variants and Newsstands some are both and some are just Newsstands editions.

I was trying to propose my question regarding the Newsstand editions where the price is different than the direct edition.... 

Is all

Those aren't the variants that are from 1999 to 2000, but the price does have a variation 

Thank you for having me make that more clear as it could cause miscommunication or confusion

Edited June 27, 2020 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

Lol not to beat a dead horse cause @valiantman and even probably @Lazyboy knew what I meant but to be clear and in plain language and for posterity

 

Newsstand variant moderns there are two separate prices to the same newsstand edition, equaling a variant

The newsstand edition I speak of didn't have a separate newsstand price variant post at least 2002-2003, but the price still varied from the direct edition

Plain newsstands post 2000-2003 were the same price as the direct edition

Since this may be an ongoing thread I didn't want to confuse

I meant the newsstand edition that varies from direct will it be only sought after by hardcore collectors in valiantmans opinion or will it have a broader base?

 

[Lazyboy]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I know what your saying, they're called Newsstand price "Edition" , I was trying to say that the price varies.... to be more specific

Not trying to call them variants and I dont think that I did

 

I don't know what "price edition" is supposed to mean.

There are thousands of Newsstand editions from the mid-90s and beyond that are priced differently than their Direct counterpart, but they're already different in a way that defines them. Any other differences are trivial.

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, Lazyboy said:

I don't know what "price edition" is supposed to mean.

There are thousands of Newsstand editions from the mid-90s and beyond that are priced differently than their Direct counterpart, but they're already different in a way that defines them. Any other differences are trivial.

I was only talking post 2000, but thanks, I didn't know that

since that is more the copper age I see why you bring it up, but I'm not familiar 

[Corona smith]

Thor God of Thunder #2 Newsstand 8.5 Raw sold for $122.50. Compared to the $30-60 the directs sell for. 
 

An Ultimate Fallout #4 CGC 9.8 Newsstand is on eBay as I type this and the seller I know has had offers as high as $5500 in the few days it’s been listed.  Before UF#4 really blew up there were newsstand sales that were 6-10x more than the direct counterparts at the time. 
 

Keys whether they're a first appearance, sought after story or artwork already have a great market that’s rapidly growing. Common issues that aren’t as sought after are also gaining in popularity. Don’t forget about run collectors who will pay multiples of what the direct counterparts sell for to fill holes. I’m one of them and I love filling holes. 
 

To me a newsstand price variant is a newsstand that has a different cover price than its direct counterpart. I know others have varying opinions but thats what I call em. 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Corona smith

[ADAMANTIUM]

Here is an example of a direct Edition and Newsstand edition, I'm sorry I dont have examples of Newsstand editions to Newsstand price variant 

@Lazyboy as this is the copper age, I tried to explain my question more clearly for you, I'm sorry you dont understand what "I" mean.... but I've made it as plain as possible and your misunderstanding is just as confusing to me so  sorry I cant help you....

[Corona smith]

7 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

I don't know what "price edition" is supposed to mean.

There are thousands of Newsstand editions from the mid-90s and beyond that are priced differently than their Direct counterpart, but they're already different in a way that defines them. Any other differences are trivial.

So page count, ads, different paper stock, along with a different price than the directs are all trivial differences? 

[valiantman]

20 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I meant the newsstand edition that varies from direct will it be only sought after by hardcore collectors in valiantmans opinion or will it have a broader base?

I interpreted your meaning on "newsstand price variant" in terms of Valiant (Copper Age).

There are Valiant direct editions that cost $2.25 while the newsstand editions were $2.50 (newsstand price variant).  Generally speaking, those are in more demand than the Valiant newsstand editions for $2.50 when the direct edition was also $2.50 (no price difference).

I believe that the final newsstand issues for the Valiant titles (which are not price variants) will probably settle into the highest prices because the final issue in the direct edition is the already the most demanded of the later issues in that title.  In other words, a Valiant price variant  for a random issue of Bloodshot could be $25 when the direct edition is $2, but the final issue of a title like Magnus #64 or Solar #60 newsstand could easily be $50+ when the direct edition is already more valuable around $10-$15.

[ADAMANTIUM]

4 minutes ago, Corona smith said:

Thor God of Thunder #2 Newsstand 8.5 Raw sold for $122.50. Compared to the $30-60 the directs sell for. 
 

An Ultimate Fallout #4 CGC 9.8 Newsstand is on eBay as I type this and the seller I know has had offers as high as $5500 in the few days it’s been listed.  Before UF#4 really blew up there were newsstand sales that were 6-10x more than the direct counterparts at the time. 
 

Keys whether they're a first appearance, sought after story or artwork already have a great market that’s rapidly growing. Common issues that aren’t as sought after are also gaining in popularity. Don’t forget about run collectors who will pay multiples of what the direct counterparts sell for to fill holes. I’m one of them and I love filling holes. 
 

To me a newsstand price variant is a newsstand that has a different cover price than its direct counterpart. I know others have varying opinions but thats what I call em. 

Man I'm sending the Thor ages of thunder 1 shot, well it's at cgc now, I'm not sure if there has been one graded  but I hope it gets correctly labeled. But I'm not sure if itll be too "hot" other than I'd rather have it graded and correctly than go in the trash 

2 minutes ago, Corona smith said:

So page count, ads, different paper stock, along with a different price than the directs are all trivial differences? 

Oh is that what he was all about, I'm still not too familiar,  but I didn't know what trivial matters he was speaking of and it had nothing to do with what I was speaking about

I've heard something somewhere, but all I did was pose a question to @valiantman 

I didn't understand how I was supposed to validate a question, it's not fact, it's a question and valiantman understood sorry I couldn't be more clear

I'm still learning....

[ADAMANTIUM]

2 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I interpreted your meaning on "newsstand price variant" in terms of Valiant (Copper Age).

There are Valiant direct editions that cost $2.25 while the newsstand editions were $2.50 (newsstand price variant).  Generally speaking, those are in more demand than the Valiant newsstand editions for $2.50 when the direct edition was also $2.50 (no price difference).

I believe that the final newsstand issues for the Valiant titles (which are not price variants) will probably settle into the highest prices because the final issue in the direct edition is the already the most demanded of the later issues in that title.  In other words, a Valiant price variant  for a random issue of Bloodshot could be $25 when the direct edition is $2, but the final issue of a title like Magnus #64 or Solar #60 newsstand could easily be $50+ when the direct edition is already more valuable around $10-$15.

Exactly 

I still didn't know that happened in the copper age

So I missed out on a conversation

That's why I bowed out, I thought I was mostly speaking of modern, but the same meaning you understood was what I was speaking of in the modern age. Dont know how to make that clear to everyone I guess....

[Lazyboy]

3 minutes ago, Corona smith said:

So page count, ads, different paper stock, along with a different price than the directs are all trivial differences? 

Yes. They are Newsstand editions, created for the newsstand market, just as it was for so many other issues that came before and after them. That's what defines them.

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, Lazyboy said:

Yes. They are Newsstand editions, created for the newsstand market, just as it was for so many other issues that came before and after them. That's what defines them.

Then you did understand  and will those be sought after only by hardcore collectors? Or will they have a broader base?

I was about to say I can only say the same thing 5 different ways before I'm giving up hahaha

[Lazyboy]

22 minutes ago, Corona smith said:

To me a newsstand price variant is a newsstand that has a different cover price than its direct counterpart. I know others have varying opinions but thats what I call em.

Well, you're just plain wrong, because these are Newsstand price variants and what you are talking about is something different.

[Corona smith]

So because you say so I’m wrong? Sure thing. It’s what I call them and I’m not alone. I can break it down. It’s a NEWSSTAND that has a different PRICE, which makes it a VARIANT from the Direct Edition. Newsstand Price Variant fits exactly. You can call it whatever you want I’ll do the same.
 

A trivial difference would be the slight barcode difference between a lot of directs and newsstands. A major difference would be page count, ads, different paper stock & a different price  so excuse me if I don’t value your opinion on the matter  

 

[Get Marwood & I]

29 minutes ago, Corona smith said:

So because you say so I’m wrong? Sure thing. It’s what I call them and I’m not alone. I can break it down. It’s a NEWSSTAND that has a different PRICE, which makes it a VARIANT from the Direct Edition. Newsstand Price Variant fits exactly. You can call it whatever you want I’ll do the same.

A trivial difference would be the slight barcode difference between a lot of directs and newsstands. A major difference would be page count, ads, different paper stock & a different price  so excuse me if I don’t value your opinion on the matter  

Hello Corona Smith 

I agree with @Lazyboy here, but I understand where you are coming from as sometimes it can be difficult to arrive at accurate terminology when discussing variations between comics.

Please, let me have a go at convincing you, using pictures to bring it to life.

First up, here is Amazing Spider-Man #163:

It's not a 'Newsstand' copy. It's just itself, ASM #163, as it is the only version that existed when it came out - every copy looked like this prior to the arrival of Direct Editions so this is just 'Amazing Spider-Man #163'. No other designation is necessary.

Hop forward a bit to Amazing Spider-Man #233 and we now have two different looking copies extant:

  

Both copies were produced as part of the same end to printing run, or 'state' (thank you @OtherEric for bringing that industry term to my attention) and neither is a variant of the other - they carry equal status. Because they differ in appearance however, we need to come up with ways of distinguishing them. We use the factual descriptors in this case of 'Newsstand Edition' and 'Direct Edition' in acknowledgement of how they were distributed - one version to the newsstand and one 'directly' to comic shops. Note we call them 'editions' - 'Newsstand Edition' - and not 'variants' because, as stated, they carry equal status and one is not intended to be unique or a variant of the other in as much as they were intended for the same market - Americans. Two edition types, both part of the same production event, just different delivery channels (one returnable, one not, hence the need for the cover difference).

Hop forward again to Amazing Spider-Man #607 and we, again, have the same two edition types enduring - Newsstand and Direct:

The exact same scenario is in evidence here as with our preceding ASM #233 - one newsstand edition one direct edition, making up the end to end production run / state for that issue. The fact that the prices differ on this issue - and many issues around that time - has no bearing on the overarching issue distinctions. The word 'variant' cannot apply to either issue, as each issue carries equal status and one is not intended to be a variant of the other as previously noted. They are just 'editions'.

Now, if we hop back to 1999/2000, and look at Amazing Spider-Man #13 (v2) we now see three edition types:

We have our standard Direct Edition, our standard Newsstand Edition but, on this occasion, a third edition. This third edition is a Newsstand copy but with a different price to the standard Newsstand copy. So we need a descriptor for it. It's not a Direct Edition, and Newsstand Edition is already taken. But it is in a newsstand edition format, just with a variant price. So the natural descriptor becomes 'Newsstand Price Variant'. So, for this particular end to end production run / state, three versions exist - Direct Edition, Newsstand Edition and a Newsstand Price Variant. The price variant in this case was likely a market test of price increases. There was a unique, intentional action to produce a variation of the existing Newsstand Edition.

Hopefully now you will see why calling the ASM #607 Newsstand Edition a 'Newsstand Price Variant' is wrong, as it places it alongside our 'true' ASM #13 variant above.

In short, the best way I think to define a comic as a 'variant' of another comic is where it sits alongside an equivalent 'primary' edition, is part of the same production run / state, but has distinctive visual differences tailored to a specific market (e.g. Canada, Australia, the UK) or for a specific reason (e.g. market tests). For a 'Newsstand Price Variant' to exist, there has to be another Newsstand version in existence for it to be the variant of.

Did that help?

 

 

[Corona smith]

15 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Hello Corona Smith 

I agree with @Lazyboy here, but I understand where you are coming from as sometimes it can be difficult to arrive at accurate terminology when discussing variations between comics.

Please, let me have a go at convincing you, using pictures to bring it to life.

First up, here is Amazing Spider-Man #163:

It's not a 'Newsstand' copy. It's just itself, ASM #163, as it is the only version that existed when it came out - every copy looked like this prior to the arrival of Direct Editions so this is just 'Amazing Spider-Man #163'. No other designation is necessary.

Hop forward a bit to Amazing Spider-Man #233 and we now have two different looking copies extant:

  

Both copies were produced as part of the same end to printing run, or 'state' (thank you @OtherEric for bringing that industry term to my attention) and neither is a variant of the other - they carry equal status. Because they differ in appearance however, we need to come up with ways of distinguishing them. We use the factual descriptors in this case of 'Newsstand Edition' and 'Direct Edition' in acknowledgement of how they were distributed - one version to the newsstand and one 'directly' to comic shops. Note we call them 'editions' - 'Newsstand Edition' - and not 'variants' because, as stated, they carry equal status and one is not intended to be unique or a variant of the other in as much as they were intended for the same market - Americans. Two edition types, both part of the same production event, just different delivery channels (one returnable, one not, hence the need for the cover difference).

Hop forward again to Amazing Spider-Man #607 and we, again, have the same two edition types enduring - Newsstand and Direct:

The exact same scenario is in evidence here as with our preceding ASM #233 - one newsstand edition one direct edition, making up the end to end production run / state for that issue. The fact that the prices differ on this issue - and many issues around that time - has no bearing on the overarching issue distinctions. The word 'variant' cannot apply to either issue, as each issue carries equal status and one is not intended to be a variant of the other as previously noted. They are just 'editions'.

Now, if we hop back to 1999/2000, and look at Amazing Spider-Man #13 (v2) we now see three edition types:

We have our standard Direct Edition, our standard Newsstand Edition but, on this occasion, a third edition. This third edition is a Newsstand copy but with a different price to the standard Newsstand copy. So we need a descriptor for it. It's not a Direct Edition, and Newsstand Edition is already taken. But it is in a newsstand edition format, just with a variant price. So the natural descriptor becomes 'Newsstand Price Variant'. So, for this particular end to end production run / state, three versions exist - Direct Edition, Newsstand Edition and a Newsstand Price Variant. The price variant in this case was likely a market test of price increases. There was a unique, intentional action to produce a variation of the existing Newsstand Edition.

Hopefully now you will see why calling the ASM #607 Newsstand Edition a 'Newsstand Price Variant' is wrong, as it places it alongside our 'true' ASM #13 variant above.

In short, the best way I think to define a comic as a 'variant' of another comic is where it sits alongside an equivalent 'primary' edition, is part of the same production run / state, but has distinctive visual differences tailored to a specific market (e.g. Canada, Australia, the UK) or for a specific reason (e.g. market tests). For a 'Newsstand Price Variant' to exist, there has to be another Newsstand version in existence for it to be the variant of.

Did that help?

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain it in detail, it’s Greatly appreciated. I agree with everything except when the newsstand is a different price than the direct edition. I think variant fits because Normally the directs and newsstands are the same price. I guess we need some way to describe a newsstand that varies in price from the direct. 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Corona smith

[Get Marwood & I]

15 minutes ago, Corona smith said:

Thanks for taking the time to explain it in detail, it’s Greatly appreciated.

You're welcome

15 minutes ago, Corona smith said:

I agree with everything except when the newsstand is a different price than the direct edition. I think variant fits because Normally the directs and newsstands are the same price. I guess we need some way to describe a newsstand that varies in price from the direct. 

May I ask why you feel we need a way to describe that? What importance can you attach to a newsstand copy that is differently priced to its direct, when only those two versions exist? I can understand why people would want to classify the ASM #13 $2.49 newsstand variant as such, to distinguish it from the other $1.99 newsstand copy, but why do the descriptors of Newsstand and Direct not satisfy you for ASM #607 when its newsstand copy is the only type extant and, therefore, just the newsstand copy?

The moment you call it a 'variant' you create the inevitable confusion that it has a sister copy out there with a different price. Again, something can only be a variant of something if the other something exists. One version type alone does not a 'variant' make. 

[Corona smith]

22 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

You're welcome

May I ask why you feel we need a way to describe that? What importance can you attach to a newsstand copy that is differently priced to its direct, when only those two versions exist? I can understand why people would want to classify the ASM #13 $2.49 newsstand variant as such, to distinguish it from the other $1.99 newsstand copy, but why do the descriptors of Newsstand and Direct not satisfy you for ASM #607 when its newsstand copy is the only type extant and, therefore, just the newsstand copy?

The moment you call it a 'variant' you create the inevitable confusion that it has a sister copy out there with a different price. Again, something can only be a variant of something if the other something exists. One version type alone does not a 'variant' make. 

I feel it needs an extra descriptor because both editions are priced the exact same 95% of the time and for a few different years they were priced differently. I think I’m going to continue calling them that but I’m going to call the True Newsstand Price Variants just that. 
 

I know when Image had Newsstands in the very early years, they were priced lower than the direct editions. That wasn’t the only difference the newsstands has ads and lower page quality. I believe they may have had more pages but I’d have to dig into the collection to figure it out. So it’s more than just the price difference  

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Corona smith

[Lazyboy]

13 minutes ago, Corona smith said:

Normally the directs and newsstands are the same price.

That's also incorrect. As I previously mentioned (in my first post on this page), there are thousands of issues from the mid-90s and later that have Direct/Newsstand priced differently.

What you're doing is no different than calling one of these a price variant

because it's priced differently than the other.

Neither is a price variant. The first is an enhanced/gimmick edition. The second is the regular edition. That's the defining difference. The prices don't matter.

[Corona smith]

12 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

That's also incorrect. As I previously mentioned (in my first post on this page), there are thousands of issues from the mid-90s and later that have Direct/Newsstand priced differently.

What you're doing is no different than calling one of these a price variant

because it's priced differently than the other.

Neither is a price variant. The first is an enhanced/gimmick edition. The second is the regular edition. That's the defining difference. The prices don't matter.

Since Direct Editions came into existence most of the time they’re  priced the same as newsstands. Sure there maybe a bunch from the 90’s but looking at the big picture they’re usually the same price. 

The example you used I wouldn’t consider a price variant because although their priced differently. The gimmick cover was more expensive than the regular/standard edition. Maybe even a cardstock cover and better page quality. Idk. I don’t have those to compare.