How much of a premium are we talking for newsstand issues v/s direct editions? 10 10

[divad]

Um wow. ASM 300 CGC 9.8 Newsstand

Um wow, is right.

 

The bidding pattern suggests this is/will be an outlier.

 

-J.

 

All data points are relevant - there is no such thing as an "outlier"

 

Truer words were never spoken. That auction and the high bidder just look a little fishy is all. It may be worth checking the seller's feedback in a week or two to see if the sale was even legitimate.

 

-J.

 

Agreed.

[divad]

On 3/4/2014 at 11:23 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Generally there is no price difference because not enough people care either way. And it will most likely always be that way.

 

-J.

 

 

 

[divad]

On 3/12/2014 at 8:25 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

I've avoided posting in this thread, as there are some strong opinions, and some rather cutting remarks, being made.

 

But I will say this, as my perspective.

 

Newsstand copies from 1976 to 1984 are as plentiful in ultra high grade, if not moreso, than direct market copies, because that's what people were still used to. Comic shops did not flourish in America until the late 80's. Those who were inclined to keeping high grade copies were still buying them mostly from the newsstand. Newsstand sales account for 70-100% of the market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1985-1993 waned, but did not totally disappear. Depending on the book, there are probably 1/2 as many high grade copies as there are direct market copies. Obviously, this average goes down the farther down the road we get. Comic shops dominated the landscape, and most buying shifted from the newsstand to the comic shop during this period. Newsstand sales, however, still accounted for between 20-40% of the entire market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1994-2002 in ultra high grade are scarce to very scarce, as traditional newsstands either limited their orders, or stopped carrying comics altogether, and the vast majority of purchases were made at comics speciality stores. While newsstand sales still accounted for a decent chunk (10-20%), it was not significant, and when print runs plummeted in the late 90's, the newsstand was not unaffected.

 

Newsstand copies from 2003-2014 are quite scarce in ultra high grade, as newsstand distribution essentially vanished as a means of comics distribution in North America (with notable exceptions), and Marvel even pulled out of the newsstand distribution chain entirely, after 70 years of publication to that market.

 

Now...what are we most concerned with here? The period essentially from 1982-1993, right? (Roughly, let's not quibble over exact dates, folks.)

 

My personal preference is, and always has been, for the direct market copies. They have, since 1979/80, had "nicer" cover art, logo, price boxes, etc. I *hate* the look of the UPC code....it's all so very grocery store to me. I don't mind having UPC copies, but I would prefer a direct copy as well. I much, much, MUCH prefer the Marvel skinny diamonds to the "M", and even the square price box of 1987-1993-ish is preferable to the Curtis code and UPC lines. I MUCH prefer the neat DC price boxes of 1983-1992-ish, with the prices in the US, Can, and the UK...over the garish giant number and price of the newsstands (Canadian pricing being the exception.)

 

In 1994, the UPC become standard, so it really didn't matter much anymore.

 

Plus...the dialog and art in the UPC box has almost always been interesting to me, especially the McFarlane Amazing Spidey #303-311 box numbering, and later art, that graced the box. If I have to take a UPC, I'll take it...but I'll pick a direct over a UPC, presented with equal opportunity.

 

Now...will people pay a premium for the newsstand copies in ultra high grade? They might...but experience has shown that overall, people still prefer the direct market books to the newsstand books, even in ultra high grade.

 

Are newsstand copies substantially rare enough in ultra high grade over their direct counterparts to warrant a premium? For a book like New Teen Titans #2, definitely not. For a book like Spidey #300? Ehhhh....it was a double sized book, so it's not really fair to compare...doubles ALWAYS got more beat up on the newsstand. For a book like, say, Batman #427? Probably not, because the direct copy has a special feature...the infamous phone number...that the newsstand did not have. For a book like, say, Batman Adventures #12, which is substantially rarer than its direct counterpart in ultra high grade? Sure.

 

(By the way...for those of you wondering about that Batman #427? They did that because the newsstands got the books AFTER the direct market, and by the time they got their copies, the deadline to call was already past...forgot about that one when discussing that in the other thread.)

 

Again, the market has not made a premium distinction between either one, especially in ultra high grade, simply because the books of the (1982-1993) time period just aren't that much rarer, and are oftentimes much, much more common, in all grades, to establish a premium for ultra high grade (9.6+)

 

But if the newsstand books appeal to you...and believe me, after the 1994 changeover, I much prefer having, and actively pursue, BOTH versions...then by all means, pay a premium for the ultra high grade copies, and the market will respond by bringing you more opportunities to buy them.

 

Overall, though? At least for the Bronze/Copper ages, it's just not that big a deal, so it's probably going to remain pretty much even on average for the eras for either version.

 

PS. The DC whitmans are not reprints.

 

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

I recently paid a premium for a CGC 9.8 newsstand copy of WILDCATS #2

[valiantman]

5 hours ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

I recently paid a premium for a CGC 9.8 newsstand copy of WILDCATS #2

I wouldn't pay more than $1 for a direct edition of WILDCats #2, but I was happy to get the newsstand in a CGC 9.6.   

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

19 hours ago, valiantman said:

I wouldn't pay more than $1 for a direct edition of WILDCats #2, but I was happy to get the newsstand in a CGC 9.6.   

Hahaha yeah one of the more unique newsstand editions out there.  It's more of a variant or second print.

Right now the direct edition CGC 9.8 is about $35.  I paid 5x that for the CGC 9.8 newsstand.  In the past 3 years I've seen only a few pop up for sale.  Didn't want to miss the opportunity.

 

***For those who don't know...direct edition has a prisma cover and the newsstand edition is a white background.

 

[Martin Sinescu]

5 hours ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said:

Hahaha yeah one of the more unique newsstand editions out there.  It's more of a variant or second print.

Right now the direct edition CGC 9.8 is about $35.  I paid 5x that for the CGC 9.8 newsstand.  In the past 3 years I've seen only a few pop up for sale.  Didn't want to miss the opportunity.

 

***For those who don't know...direct edition has a prisma cover and the newsstand edition is a white background.

 

 Money well-spent, buddy! I agree, this is a really cool version of this issue. I picked one up off the newsstands back in the day because it was so bland compared to the Sparkly Market edition that I thought it was actually pretty boss. I sold most of my collection back in the late 90's for SW figs, but remembered that white cover so vividly that I'd been looking for a replacement copy for the last few years. I finally found one at an LCS a year or so back for $1. Guy knew what it was, he just figured no one would really care. To find a 9.6 or 9.8 is pretty righteous!

[revat]

I think the vast vast vast majority of comics and people no one cares about newsstand vs direct, but for the really RARE newssies that become collector's items or the titles that have many completists (aka completionists), there is much more likely a premium to be realized, if you are patient and a little bit lucky.  ASM, Batman, TEC, Wolvie, Spawn, and Uncanny X-men seem to be the most likely titles that are copper related.  One might also be able to extract some premium on completionist artist collectors, like Adam Hughes, Michael Turner, JSC, Del'Otto, maybe even early Jim Lee or Todd Mac in the right grades.

[Philflound]

There are always collectors for everything. If you want premiums, maybe sell them to Mile High as they charge premiums for inserts, whitmans, and newsstand variations.

[Lazyboy]

On 2014-03-13 at 8:38 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Now...what about 1981-1984? Here's where the Direct Market affects the AFTER market that we see now. Since Direct Market books were NOT returnable, and the amount of stores exploded nationwide from 7-800 hundred in 1978 to 3,000 by 1981, stores began to stockpile back issues in a way that no one had before. And that's generally what we see now: back stock that slowly trickles its way, sometimes by as much as 3rd, 4th, 5th generation owners, into the market.

 

But what happened to the newsstand copies? The newsstand remained as it was: books were returnable, and were RETURNED...but the ones sold were sold to individuals, and many of those individuals kept them as part of collections...not all, obviously, but not none, either. So, if you're going to find "multiple copies in high grade", you're going to find "untouched DM store stock" much more often than large masses of newsstand copies.

 

This does not mean that there aren't many high grade newsstand copies "out there" from 1981-1984.

 

It just means that you're not going to find POCKETS of them, like you will DM copies. The newsstands copies are generally...this is a GENERALIZATION...mostly in collector hands, and often ORIGINAL collector hands, and therefore aren't as *available* on the open market, but that doesn't mean that there aren't masses of them that exist from that era.

This is a very important point that many people seem to ignore when talking about newsstand copies.

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, Philflound said:

There are always collectors for everything. If you want premiums, maybe sell them to Mile High as they charge premiums for inserts, whitmans, and newsstand variations.

The keyword in your post: charge.

[DeadpoolJr.]

I recently bought a newsstand version of Avengers 196 (first Taskmaster). Not because it was a newstand, but because it was the highest grade the seller had, and all his copies were newsstand editions.

[valiantman]

19 hours ago, DeadpoolJr. said:

I recently bought a newsstand version of Avengers 196 (first Taskmaster). Not because it was a newstand, but because it was the highest grade the seller had, and all his copies were newsstand editions.

That book is from 1980.  Newsstand was the most common edition until about 1986.

[Cpt Kirk]

On 3/15/2017 at 10:02 AM, divad said:

 

Divad and RockMyAmadeus:   I admire and concur with your analyses.   

I can add following:   There just can't be that many fanatics like me that try to collect both the newsstand and direct market versions of their favorite titles.   If you want to get really nutty, try to find all your newsstand issues in high grade (of the 1500 or so newsstand issues I've collected, there's only about 5 that aren't VF... which is really tough to do because those newsstand issues tend to get beat up on the newsstand).    If you are one of those fanatics for DC newsstand issues, feel free to send me a PM as I would love to hear about your experiences.   

So if you have a rare newsstand issue and you want to sell it, you would need to be lucky enough to find the right buyer to get the premium.  There just can't be that many buyers out there, because it is a crazy and difficult pursuit.   

I have, in the past, paid a premium for some very hard to find newsstand issues.   Examples include issues in the range of Detective 800 thru 881, Batman 630 through 713, Action 850 through 904.    I've regularly paid prices around $50 to get them from sources like Mile High Comics, and friends in Europe and South America (where they were more easily found).     For me, this was more of an academic pursuit to prove that they all existed and to have the satisfaction of having all the different variants of the titles I collect.   Between Batman, Detective, Superman/Adv of Superman, Action and Justice League of America, I've found every single newsstand issue except Detective 868.  I'd gladly pay $50 for that one if in nice condition.

[mr_highgrade]

On 4/4/2017 at 1:52 PM, Cpt Kirk said:

Divad and RockMyAmadeus:   I admire and concur with your analyses.   

I can add following:   There just can't be that many fanatics like me that try to collect both the newsstand and direct market versions of their favorite titles.   If you want to get really nutty, try to find all your newsstand issues in high grade (of the 1500 or so newsstand issues I've collected, there's only about 5 that aren't VF... which is really tough to do because those newsstand issues tend to get beat up on the newsstand).    If you are one of those fanatics for DC newsstand issues, feel free to send me a PM as I would love to hear about your experiences.   

So if you have a rare newsstand issue and you want to sell it, you would need to be lucky enough to find the right buyer to get the premium.  There just can't be that many buyers out there, because it is a crazy and difficult pursuit.   

I have, in the past, paid a premium for some very hard to find newsstand issues.   Examples include issues in the range of Detective 800 thru 881, Batman 630 through 713, Action 850 through 904.    I've regularly paid prices around $50 to get them from sources like Mile High Comics, and friends in Europe and South America (where they were more easily found).     For me, this was more of an academic pursuit to prove that they all existed and to have the satisfaction of having all the different variants of the titles I collect.   Between Batman, Detective, Superman/Adv of Superman, Action and Justice League of America, I've found every single newsstand issue except Detective 868.  I'd gladly pay $50 for that one if in nice condition.

I concur with everything you said, the main problem with newsies is finding them in high grade.

[Cpt Kirk]

1 hour ago, mr_highgrade said:

I concur with everything you said, the main problem with newsies is finding them in high grade.

tell me about it.   I've got about 1500, and it was no small feat to have all in VF except about 10 of them

[Philflound]

Well, it looks like Voldie is in agreement that newsstand should be graded separately from direct.

[Warlord]

On 4/9/2017 at 0:18 AM, Philflound said:

Well, it looks like Voldie is in agreement that newsstand should be graded separately from direct.

Yeah, I saw that news in the Chuck's MH newsletter.  Tried to find the actual PR on that other company's website but found only a discussion thread that seemed to confirm it.  They're going to make note of the distinction for 1977 through 2000 publication dates.    Not sure why there's a cutoff at 2000 though

 

[mr_highgrade]

CGC is also going start to recognized certain newsstands on a case by case basis.

[Philflound]

10 hours ago, mr_highgrade said:

CGC is also going start to recognized certain newsstands on a case by case basis.

CGC already recognizes newsstands on a case by case basis. The Image titles are pretty much recognized as long as the paper stock and/or price is different. Also DC and Marvel price variations are separated.