How much of a premium are we talking for newsstand issues v/s direct editions? 10 10

[valiantman]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

28 minutes ago, paqart said:

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

That's good, because my copies aren't for sale.

LOL

I am still, however, interested in what sort of premium you WOULD pay, IF you were buying, as you claimed earlier that, and I quote: "ASM 238 is hard to find as an NS comic."

I did a quick check on eBay at this moment and discovered that of the number of ASM #238s for sale right now in single copy listings, 71 of them are newsstand copies, and 74 are Direct market copies. So, I would like to understand what you consider "hard to find." While, as @valiantman has mentioned, what's "available" is only an indication of what's for sale, not what exists, and any snapshot on eBay is just what's available in a single moment in time, it's nearly a 1:1 ratio currently. That's pretty compelling evidence that newsstands for the issue are neither rare absolutely, nor rare relative to their Direct market counterparts.

Thank you for your kind response.

Even the 50/50 newsstand/direct marketplace sample are fun to also evaluate for average grade (or grade distributions), particularly if they're CGC universal (supposedly consistent grading standards).

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, valiantman said:

Even the 50/50 newsstand/direct marketplace sample are fun to also evaluate for average grade (or grade distributions), particularly if they're CGC universal (supposedly consistent grading standards).

Definitely. I think we've strongly established over the years that the average grade distribution for newsstand copies, beginning in roughly 1980-81, are lower than, in absolute terms, the average grade distribution for Direct copies. There are some fascinating mitigating factors involved (for example, the massive increase in general protection and preservation that blossomed in the 80s), but in general, I think it's safe to say that, if Random Popular And Valuable Comic Book X #47 (9/83) that has an average grade distribution of 9.4 will have a NEWSSTAND average grade distribution of, say, 9.0. 

I don't have the talent or the desire to make a chart.

It's so, so unfortunate that CGC didn't make these distinctions from the start. 

 

[paqart]

4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I know you believe this, but you really ought not say things like this without proper context, because you, I, nor anyone has any idea how much more common one is than the other. Because of the nature of the two books, yes, #252s can reasonably be said to be more common...but assigning a random number based on what is available for sale, without providing context for how you came up with that number, is the "pulling numbers out of your butt" that Lazyboy was referring to earlier.

 

Just because I didn’t mention the source of that figure, though I did in a general way earlier, doesn’t mean it is random. It is based on a check of auctions at Heritage of copies in 9.0 and better condition. I believe you when you write they are equal on eBay, because eBay often has lower grade comics than Heritage. As for the premium I would pay for this, less than nothing. The reason is that, although it is harder to find on Heritage in slab-worthy condition, it isn’t on my want list. I would have bought it about a month ago, and at that time set my price at about 50% the going price at auction. I didn’t find any at that price so I didn’t buy any. Later, I saw that newsstand comics in that time period were easier to find than I had expected, so I stopped buying newsstand comics published before 2000. A week or two after that, I stopped buying newsstand comics published before 2005. Now, although I am willing to buy comics in the 2005-2010 range, I am focused on 2010-2013. The more I look at this, the less I like issues that I regularly find even if they are in tiny proportions to direct issues. 

‘I have paid a premium for these but in most cases it was a slab premium, not a rarity premium. When I have paid more for rarity, in most cases it is a comic that has a low direct value, so the premium brings it up to only $40 or so from $3-$4. I’ve bought a few in the $150-$240 price range but those are all slabbed and are worth the price as direct editions, though they are newsstand. That way, if needed, I could get all or most of my money back fairly easily.

[RockMyAmadeus]

11 minutes ago, paqart said:

Just because I didn’t mention the source of that figure, though I did in a general way earlier, doesn’t mean it is random. It is based on a check of auctions at Heritage of copies in 9.0 and better condition. I believe you when you write they are equal on eBay, because eBay often has lower grade comics than Heritage. As for the premium I would pay for this, less than nothing. The reason is that, although it is harder to find on Heritage in slab-worthy condition, it isn’t on my want list. I would have bought it about a month ago, and at that time set my price at about 50% the going price at auction. I didn’t find any at that price so I didn’t buy any. Later, I saw that newsstand comics in that time period were easier to find than I had expected, so I stopped buying newsstand comics published before 2000. A week or two after that, I stopped buying newsstand comics published before 2005. Now, although I am willing to buy comics in the 2005-2010 range, I am focused on 2010-2013. The more I look at this, the less I like issues that I regularly find even if they are in tiny proportions to direct issues. 

‘I have paid a premium for these but in most cases it was a slab premium, not a rarity premium. When I have paid more for rarity, in most cases it is a comic that has a low direct value, so the premium brings it up to only $40 or so from $3-$4. I’ve bought a few in the $150-$240 price range but those are all slabbed and are worth the price as direct editions, though they are newsstand. That way, if needed, I could get all or most of my money back fairly easily.

So, your claim that "ASM 252 is about five times as common as #238" is based on sales on Heritage of both books in 9.0 or better condition...? So, and please, feel free to correct me if I'm misrepresenting your comments in any way, but what you meant to say was "ASM #252 is about five times as common as #238 on Heritage in 9.0 or better grade." Have I accurately represented your statements, then...?

Which, of course, changes the claim quite substantially. "ASM #252 is about five times as common as #238" is vastly different from "ASM #252 is about five times as common as #238 on Heritage in 9.0 or better grade."

As for the number of #238 Directs vs. newsstands, you need not take my word for it; you're more than welcome to count for yourself. As only a couple of hours have passed, I doubt the numbers have changed much, if it all. Your original statement was "ASM 238 is hard to find as an NS comic." I think the numbers just today on eBay debunk that claim a bit, wouldn't you say...?

Edited October 10, 2019 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

12 minutes ago, paqart said:

Oh brother. The way you write isn’t exactly the most congenial style I’ve ever seen. We aren’t playing chess here yet you insist on framing everything in such a way that you can do a victory lap every now and then. It is unseemly. 

 

I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.

 

[bababooey]

5 minutes ago, paqart said:

Instead you turn it into a contest. 

[paqart]

For what it's worth, the range of prices I am actually paying for NS comics is between $1-$250, depending on the comics. I am most comfortable with prices around $40 for something I really want, to $10 for something that is nice to have. Lower prices are flea markets and dollar bin comics. When I have paid more, it is because they are slabbed and are keys of some kind.

 

[divad]

21 hours ago, bababooey said:

21 hours ago, paqart said:

Instead you turn it into a contest. 

Welcome to the RMA Boards! 

[divad]

22 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

  22 hours ago, paqart said:

Oh brother. The way you write isn’t exactly the most congenial style I’ve ever seen. We aren’t playing chess here yet you insist on framing everything in such a way that you can do a victory lap every now and then. It is unseemly. 

 

 

[valiantman]

One thing I expect to see is much higher survival rates for newsstand books which were "hot" when they were released as direct editions.  Newsstands were likely to have been targeted by collectors, especially if the comic shops ran out of copies. I believe ASM #252 will be one of these. Much easier to find than newsstand for ASM #251 or #253.

[divad]

2 minutes ago, valiantman said:

One thing I expect to see is much higher survival rates for newsstand books which were "hot" when they were released as direct editions.  Newsstands were likely to have been targeted by collectors, especially if the comic shops ran out of copies. I believe ASM #252 will be one of these. Much easier to find than newsstand for ASM #251 or #253.

Except that many of us didn’t buy books that were hot, we just bought everything we liked 

[divad]

As a rule I never bought comics from a comic shop

[valiantman]

9 minutes ago, divad said:

13 minutes ago, valiantman said:

One thing I expect to see is much higher survival rates for newsstand books which were "hot" when they were released as direct editions.  Newsstands were likely to have been targeted by collectors, especially if the comic shops ran out of copies. I believe ASM #252 will be one of these. Much easier to find than newsstand for ASM #251 or #253.

Except that many of us didn’t buy books that were hot, we just bought everything we liked 

If many of you had consistant behaviors, then you contributed to the surviving copies but not the variability. Others who were chasing hot books back-in-the-day will be the basis for the (expected) variability in survival rates.

Edited October 11, 2019 by valiantman

[divad]

9 minutes ago, valiantman said:

If many of you had consistant behaviors, then you contributed to the surviving copies but not the variability. Others who were chasing hot books back-in-the-day will be the basis for the (expected) variability in survival rates.

True, but hot wasn't really HOT until the widespread use of the internet

[divad]

[RockMyAmadeus]

7 hours ago, divad said:

Welcome to the RMA Boards! 

Your welcome.

[RockMyAmadeus]

7 hours ago, divad said:

 

 

[divad]

On 2/17/2014 at 2:59 PM, Silverdream said:

I think the answer pretty much is this:

 

Currenty there is not much of a difference, even though there are many more multiples of direct editions out there.

 

At some point, its a possibility newsstand versions may command a more than marginal premium.

 

I really think post 1996 newstands are the really tough books to find. And prior to that only key books, as slym was asking about may bring a premium.

 

I'd tuck that book away along with any other lower than 9.6 newstand keys you have and hold onto them.

 

[divad]

On 3/4/2014 at 11:23 PM, Jaydogrules said:

Generally there is no price difference because not enough people care either way. And it will most likely always be that way.

 

-J.

 

[divad]

On 3/5/2014 at 8:33 PM, valiantman said:

What customers?

 

I'm not a dealer. I'm a buyer. I pay more for high grade newsstand because I remember the newsstand.

I remember being in the grocery store with my parents as a pre-teen and seeing bent-to-heck comics.

I know the unsold copies got sent back, shredded and recycled.

It doesn't make me feel like I have something more rare and more special.

It IS special. I know the history of a newsstand comic.

It didn't get put into a bag and board on the first day and set out for sale.

It survived.

 

Why would I tell sellers that I will pay more for something that I could get for the same price if I just shut up?

 

Because I'm not the one telling them. The market is.

To win newsstand books, I have to bid higher than other buyers of newsstand books.

 

Sometimes I win. Sometimes they outbid me. Either way, newsstand matters.