How much of a premium are we talking for newsstand issues v/s direct editions? 10 10

[RockMyAmadeus]

This thread is a hoot, too.

 

And all I wanted was a little advice about my UXM 282.

 

:shrug: ::

 

 

 

-slym

 

I've avoided posting in this thread, as there are some strong opinions, and some rather cutting remarks, being made.

 

But I will say this, as my perspective.

 

Newsstand copies from 1976 to 1984 are as plentiful in ultra high grade, if not moreso, than direct market copies, because that's what people were still used to. Comic shops did not flourish in America until the late 80's. Those who were inclined to keeping high grade copies were still buying them mostly from the newsstand. Newsstand sales account for 70-100% of the market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1985-1993 waned, but did not totally disappear. Depending on the book, there are probably 1/2 as many high grade copies as there are direct market copies. Obviously, this average goes down the farther down the road we get. Comic shops dominated the landscape, and most buying shifted from the newsstand to the comic shop during this period. Newsstand sales, however, still accounted for between 20-40% of the entire market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1994-2002 in ultra high grade are scarce to very scarce, as traditional newsstands either limited their orders, or stopped carrying comics altogether, and the vast majority of purchases were made at comics speciality stores. While newsstand sales still accounted for a decent chunk (10-20%), it was not significant, and when print runs plummeted in the late 90's, the newsstand was not unaffected.

 

Newsstand copies from 2003-2014 are quite scarce in ultra high grade, as newsstand distribution essentially vanished as a means of comics distribution in North America (with notable exceptions), and Marvel even pulled out of the newsstand distribution chain entirely, after 70 years of publication to that market.

 

Now...what are we most concerned with here? The period essentially from 1982-1993, right? (Roughly, let's not quibble over exact dates, folks.)

 

My personal preference is, and always has been, for the direct market copies. They have, since 1979/80, had "nicer" cover art, logo, price boxes, etc. I *hate* the look of the UPC code....it's all so very grocery store to me. I don't mind having UPC copies, but I would prefer a direct copy as well. I much, much, MUCH prefer the Marvel skinny diamonds to the "M", and even the square price box of 1987-1993-ish is preferable to the Curtis code and UPC lines. I MUCH prefer the neat DC price boxes of 1983-1992-ish, with the prices in the US, Can, and the UK...over the garish giant number and price of the newsstands (Canadian pricing being the exception.)

 

In 1994, the UPC become standard, so it really didn't matter much anymore.

 

Plus...the dialog and art in the UPC box has almost always been interesting to me, especially the McFarlane Amazing Spidey #303-311 box numbering, and later art, that graced the box. If I have to take a UPC, I'll take it...but I'll pick a direct over a UPC, presented with equal opportunity.

 

Now...will people pay a premium for the newsstand copies in ultra high grade? They might...but experience has shown that overall, people still prefer the direct market books to the newsstand books, even in ultra high grade.

 

Are newsstand copies substantially rare enough in ultra high grade over their direct counterparts to warrant a premium? For a book like New Teen Titans #2, definitely not. For a book like Spidey #300? Ehhhh....it was a double sized book, so it's not really fair to compare...doubles ALWAYS got more beat up on the newsstand. For a book like, say, Batman #427? Probably not, because the direct copy has a special feature...the infamous phone number...that the newsstand did not have. For a book like, say, Batman Adventures #12, which is substantially rarer than its direct counterpart in ultra high grade? Sure.

 

(By the way...for those of you wondering about that Batman #427? They did that because the newsstands got the books AFTER the direct market, and by the time they got their copies, the deadline to call was already past...forgot about that one when discussing that in the other thread.)

 

Again, the market has not made a premium distinction between either one, especially in ultra high grade, simply because the books of the (1982-1993) time period just aren't that much rarer, and are oftentimes much, much more common, in all grades, to establish a premium for ultra high grade (9.6+)

 

But if the newsstand books appeal to you...and believe me, after the 1994 changeover, I much prefer having, and actively pursue, BOTH versions...then by all means, pay a premium for the ultra high grade copies, and the market will respond by bringing you more opportunities to buy them.

 

Overall, though? At least for the Bronze/Copper ages, it's just not that big a deal, so it's probably going to remain pretty much even on average for the eras for either version.

 

PS. The DC whitmans are not reprints.

[Jaydogrules]

This thread is a hoot, too.

 

And all I wanted was a little advice about my UXM 282.

 

:shrug: ::

 

 

 

-slym

 

I've avoided posting in this thread, as there are some strong opinions, and some rather cutting remarks, being made.

 

But I will say this, as my perspective.

 

Newsstand copies from 1976 to 1984 are as plentiful in ultra high grade, if not moreso, than direct market copies, because that's what people were still used to. Comic shops did not flourish in America until the late 80's. Those who were inclined to keeping high grade copies were still buying them mostly from the newsstand. Newsstand sales account for 70-100% of the market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1985-1993 waned, but did not totally disappear. Depending on the book, there are probably 1/2 as many high grade copies as there are direct market copies. Obviously, this average goes down the farther down the road we get. Comic shops dominated the landscape, and most buying shifted from the newsstand to the comic shop during this period. Newsstand sales, however, still accounted for between 20-40% of the entire market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1994-2002 in ultra high grade are scarce to very scarce, as traditional newsstands either limited their orders, or stopped carrying comics altogether, and the vast majority of purchases were made at comics speciality stores. While newsstand sales still accounted for a decent chunk (10-20%), it was not significant, and when print runs plummeted in the late 90's, the newsstand was not unaffected.

 

Newsstand copies from 2003-2014 are quite scarce in ultra high grade, as newsstand distribution essentially vanished as a means of comics distribution in North America (with notable exceptions), and Marvel even pulled out of the newsstand distribution chain entirely, after 70 years of publication to that market.

 

Now...what are we most concerned with here? The period essentially from 1982-1993, right? (Roughly, let's not quibble over exact dates, folks.)

 

My personal preference is, and always has been, for the direct market copies. They have, since 1979/80, had "nicer" cover art, logo, price boxes, etc. I *hate* the look of the UPC code....it's all so very grocery store to me. I don't mind having UPC copies, but I would prefer a direct copy as well. I much, much, MUCH prefer the Marvel skinny diamonds to the "M", and even the square price box of 1987-1993-ish is preferable to the Curtis code and UPC lines. I MUCH prefer the neat DC price boxes of 1983-1992-ish, with the prices in the US, Can, and the UK...over the garish giant number and price of the newsstands (Canadian pricing being the exception.)

 

In 1994, the UPC become standard, so it really didn't matter much anymore.

 

Plus...the dialog and art in the UPC box has almost always been interesting to me, especially the McFarlane Amazing Spidey #303-311 box numbering, and later art, that graced the box. If I have to take a UPC, I'll take it...but I'll pick a direct over a UPC, presented with equal opportunity.

 

Now...will people pay a premium for the newsstand copies in ultra high grade? They might...but experience has shown that overall, people still prefer the direct market books to the newsstand books, even in ultra high grade.

 

Are newsstand copies substantially rare enough in ultra high grade over their direct counterparts to warrant a premium? For a book like New Teen Titans #2, definitely not. For a book like Spidey #300? Ehhhh....it was a double sized book, so it's not really fair to compare...doubles ALWAYS got more beat up on the newsstand. For a book like, say, Batman #427? Probably not, because the direct copy has a special feature...the infamous phone number...that the newsstand did not have. For a book like, say, Batman Adventures #12, which is substantially rarer than its direct counterpart in ultra high grade? Sure.

 

(By the way...for those of you wondering about that Batman #427? They did that because the newsstands got the books AFTER the direct market, and by the time they got their copies, the deadline to call was already past...forgot about that one when discussing that in the other thread.)

 

Again, the market has not made a premium distinction between either one, especially in ultra high grade, simply because the books of the (1982-1993) time period just aren't that much rarer, and are oftentimes much, much more common, in all grades, to establish a premium for ultra high grade (9.6+)

 

But if the newsstand books appeal to you...and believe me, after the 1994 changeover, I much prefer having, and actively pursue, BOTH versions...then by all means, pay a premium for the ultra high grade copies, and the market will respond by bringing you more opportunities to buy them.

 

Overall, though? At least for the Bronze/Copper ages, it's just not that big a deal, so it's probably going to remain pretty much even on average for the eras for either version.

 

PS. The DC whitmans are not reprints.

 

Very interesting and informative post, thank you for that well written primer, amadeus. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[mr_highgrade]

This thread is a hoot, too.

 

And all I wanted was a little advice about my UXM 282.

 

:shrug: ::

 

 

 

-slym

 

I've avoided posting in this thread, as there are some strong opinions, and some rather cutting remarks, being made.

 

But I will say this, as my perspective.

 

Newsstand copies from 1976 to 1984 are as plentiful in ultra high grade, if not moreso, than direct market copies, because that's what people were still used to. Comic shops did not flourish in America until the late 80's. Those who were inclined to keeping high grade copies were still buying them mostly from the newsstand. Newsstand sales account for 70-100% of the market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1985-1993 waned, but did not totally disappear. Depending on the book, there are probably 1/2 as many high grade copies as there are direct market copies. Obviously, this average goes down the farther down the road we get. Comic shops dominated the landscape, and most buying shifted from the newsstand to the comic shop during this period. Newsstand sales, however, still accounted for between 20-40% of the entire market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1994-2002 in ultra high grade are scarce to very scarce, as traditional newsstands either limited their orders, or stopped carrying comics altogether, and the vast majority of purchases were made at comics speciality stores. While newsstand sales still accounted for a decent chunk (10-20%), it was not significant, and when print runs plummeted in the late 90's, the newsstand was not unaffected.

 

Newsstand copies from 2003-2014 are quite scarce in ultra high grade, as newsstand distribution essentially vanished as a means of comics distribution in North America (with notable exceptions), and Marvel even pulled out of the newsstand distribution chain entirely, after 70 years of publication to that market.

 

Now...what are we most concerned with here? The period essentially from 1982-1993, right? (Roughly, let's not quibble over exact dates, folks.)

 

My personal preference is, and always has been, for the direct market copies. They have, since 1979/80, had "nicer" cover art, logo, price boxes, etc. I *hate* the look of the UPC code....it's all so very grocery store to me. I don't mind having UPC copies, but I would prefer a direct copy as well. I much, much, MUCH prefer the Marvel skinny diamonds to the "M", and even the square price box of 1987-1993-ish is preferable to the Curtis code and UPC lines. I MUCH prefer the neat DC price boxes of 1983-1992-ish, with the prices in the US, Can, and the UK...over the garish giant number and price of the newsstands (Canadian pricing being the exception.)

 

In 1994, the UPC become standard, so it really didn't matter much anymore.

 

Plus...the dialog and art in the UPC box has almost always been interesting to me, especially the McFarlane Amazing Spidey #303-311 box numbering, and later art, that graced the box. If I have to take a UPC, I'll take it...but I'll pick a direct over a UPC, presented with equal opportunity.

 

Now...will people pay a premium for the newsstand copies in ultra high grade? They might...but experience has shown that overall, people still prefer the direct market books to the newsstand books, even in ultra high grade.

 

Are newsstand copies substantially rare enough in ultra high grade over their direct counterparts to warrant a premium? For a book like New Teen Titans #2, definitely not. For a book like Spidey #300? Ehhhh....it was a double sized book, so it's not really fair to compare...doubles ALWAYS got more beat up on the newsstand. For a book like, say, Batman #427? Probably not, because the direct copy has a special feature...the infamous phone number...that the newsstand did not have. For a book like, say, Batman Adventures #12, which is substantially rarer than its direct counterpart in ultra high grade? Sure.

 

(By the way...for those of you wondering about that Batman #427? They did that because the newsstands got the books AFTER the direct market, and by the time they got their copies, the deadline to call was already past...forgot about that one when discussing that in the other thread.)

 

Again, the market has not made a premium distinction between either one, especially in ultra high grade, simply because the books of the (1982-1993) time period just aren't that much rarer, and are oftentimes much, much more common, in all grades, to establish a premium for ultra high grade (9.6+)

 

But if the newsstand books appeal to you...and believe me, after the 1994 changeover, I much prefer having, and actively pursue, BOTH versions...then by all means, pay a premium for the ultra high grade copies, and the market will respond by bringing you more opportunities to buy them.

 

Overall, though? At least for the Bronze/Copper ages, it's just not that big a deal, so it's probably going to remain pretty much even on average for the eras for either version.

 

PS. The DC whitmans are not reprints.

 

 

 

Well said. (thumbs u I would just like to add that somewhere in the 2000's Marvel also decided to raise it's cover price on some of it's better selling Newsstand titles.

[maloney414]

This thread is a hoot, too.

 

And all I wanted was a little advice about my UXM 282.

 

:shrug: ::

 

 

 

-slym

 

I've avoided posting in this thread, as there are some strong opinions, and some rather cutting remarks, being made.

 

But I will say this, as my perspective.

 

Newsstand copies from 1976 to 1984 are as plentiful in ultra high grade, if not moreso, than direct market copies, because that's what people were still used to. Comic shops did not flourish in America until the late 80's. Those who were inclined to keeping high grade copies were still buying them mostly from the newsstand. Newsstand sales account for 70-100% of the market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1985-1993 waned, but did not totally disappear. Depending on the book, there are probably 1/2 as many high grade copies as there are direct market copies. Obviously, this average goes down the farther down the road we get. Comic shops dominated the landscape, and most buying shifted from the newsstand to the comic shop during this period. Newsstand sales, however, still accounted for between 20-40% of the entire market during this period.

 

Newsstand copies from 1994-2002 in ultra high grade are scarce to very scarce, as traditional newsstands either limited their orders, or stopped carrying comics altogether, and the vast majority of purchases were made at comics speciality stores. While newsstand sales still accounted for a decent chunk (10-20%), it was not significant, and when print runs plummeted in the late 90's, the newsstand was not unaffected.

 

Newsstand copies from 2003-2014 are quite scarce in ultra high grade, as newsstand distribution essentially vanished as a means of comics distribution in North America (with notable exceptions), and Marvel even pulled out of the newsstand distribution chain entirely, after 70 years of publication to that market.

 

Now...what are we most concerned with here? The period essentially from 1982-1993, right? (Roughly, let's not quibble over exact dates, folks.)

 

My personal preference is, and always has been, for the direct market copies. They have, since 1979/80, had "nicer" cover art, logo, price boxes, etc. I *hate* the look of the UPC code....it's all so very grocery store to me. I don't mind having UPC copies, but I would prefer a direct copy as well. I much, much, MUCH prefer the Marvel skinny diamonds to the "M", and even the square price box of 1987-1993-ish is preferable to the Curtis code and UPC lines. I MUCH prefer the neat DC price boxes of 1983-1992-ish, with the prices in the US, Can, and the UK...over the garish giant number and price of the newsstands (Canadian pricing being the exception.)

 

In 1994, the UPC become standard, so it really didn't matter much anymore.

 

Plus...the dialog and art in the UPC box has almost always been interesting to me, especially the McFarlane Amazing Spidey #303-311 box numbering, and later art, that graced the box. If I have to take a UPC, I'll take it...but I'll pick a direct over a UPC, presented with equal opportunity.

 

Now...will people pay a premium for the newsstand copies in ultra high grade? They might...but experience has shown that overall, people still prefer the direct market books to the newsstand books, even in ultra high grade.

 

Are newsstand copies substantially rare enough in ultra high grade over their direct counterparts to warrant a premium? For a book like New Teen Titans #2, definitely not. For a book like Spidey #300? Ehhhh....it was a double sized book, so it's not really fair to compare...doubles ALWAYS got more beat up on the newsstand. For a book like, say, Batman #427? Probably not, because the direct copy has a special feature...the infamous phone number...that the newsstand did not have. For a book like, say, Batman Adventures #12, which is substantially rarer than its direct counterpart in ultra high grade? Sure.

 

(By the way...for those of you wondering about that Batman #427? They did that because the newsstands got the books AFTER the direct market, and by the time they got their copies, the deadline to call was already past...forgot about that one when discussing that in the other thread.)

 

Again, the market has not made a premium distinction between either one, especially in ultra high grade, simply because the books of the (1982-1993) time period just aren't that much rarer, and are oftentimes much, much more common, in all grades, to establish a premium for ultra high grade (9.6+)

 

But if the newsstand books appeal to you...and believe me, after the 1994 changeover, I much prefer having, and actively pursue, BOTH versions...then by all means, pay a premium for the ultra high grade copies, and the market will respond by bringing you more opportunities to buy them.

 

Overall, though? At least for the Bronze/Copper ages, it's just not that big a deal, so it's probably going to remain pretty much even on average for the eras for either version.

 

PS. The DC whitmans are not reprints.

 

 

This is a very informative post, and I think a lot of collectors are misinformed and believe high grade newstand automatically equals rare.

 

Posts like this remind me it's a shame certain people troll you and look for ways to start arguments, which in turn has lead you to change your posting habits. You have a wealth of comic knowledge and I enjoy it when you share. (thumbs u

 

 

 

[Mike's Rack]

This thread is a hoot, too.

 

And all I wanted was a little advice about my UXM 282.

 

:shrug: ::

 

 

 

-slym

 

I've avoided posting in this thread, as there are some strong opinions, and some rather cutting remarks, being made.

 

But I will say this, as my perspective.

 

Newsstand copies from 1976 to 1984 are as plentiful in ultra high grade...

Thanks for this post RMA. I think part of the problem is people want a black or white answer, "newsstands are rare or they aren't". In truth, the answer is very nuanced and requires a knowledge of the specific book, era and distribution process. That is what makes collecting fun, digging deeper into these questions.

 

Personally, I prefer the newsstand editions from the earlier eras to the direct markets because they remind me of a time when I would see comics everywhere. A time when they ran free in the wild, before they were hunted down for sport and confined to preserves known as "Local Comic Shops".

[wormboy]

This thread is a hoot, too.

 

And all I wanted was a little advice about my UXM 282.

 

:shrug: ::

 

 

 

-slym

 

I've avoided posting in this thread, as there are some strong opinions, and some rather cutting remarks, being made.

 

But I will say this, as my perspective.

 

Newsstand copies from 1976 to 1984 are as plentiful in ultra high grade, if not moreso

 

Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree, at least on the books that I search for. As I mentioned earlier, I collect Miller DD and other Miller covers in CGC 9.4. (Maybe your "ultra high grade" distinction rules this grade out- if so, my argument is moot). I searched the current comiclink auction for 9.4 copies of Wolverine Ltd. Series (1982). There are 6 direct copies and 0 newsstand copies available. In the 'for sale' section, there are 10 copies shown (sold and unsold), all direct, 0 newsstand copies.

 

Again, I'm not arguing that there's a great premium, just that I'm willing to pay a premium when I find newsstand copies because they are harder for me to find, and I like them better. I bought them that way off the stand at the 7-11.

[slym2none]

That was a great post, RMA. Thank you!

 

 

 

-slym

[vaillant]

Actual "scarcity" aside I liked Whitman versions better (and still like them, in general) simply because they look graphically better to me.

 

Early silver age Marvels had a lot of care put in the graphic design of most of the tiniest detail (and a "craft" quality to them, also thanks to the great logo designs of Sol Brodsky).

The newsstand copies had a nicer look with the "Whitman" diamond price box, so I preferred those when I got them (hey, from Italy you couldn’t have been that picky back then! ).

 

[lightninglad]

Newsstand sales account for 70-100% of the market during this period.

 

Newsstand sales, however, still accounted for between 20-40% of the entire market during this period.

 

While newsstand sales still accounted for a decent chunk (10-20%), it was not significant, and when print runs plummeted in the late 90's, the newsstand was not unaffected.

 

Do you have a source for these numbers? Or is this just your speculation on the newsstand/direct market distrubution?

Edited March 13, 2014 by lightninglad

[divad]

That was a great post, RMA. Thank you!

 

-slym

 

Except that he just makes the stuff up, and pulls dates and numbers out of his hat . . . (and that's being kind).

[slym2none]

Oh, no... please, lets not lead this thread to getting locked...

 

 

 

 

-slym

[valiantman]

Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree, at least on the books that I search for. As I mentioned earlier, I collect Miller DD and other Miller covers in CGC 9.4. (Maybe your "ultra high grade" distinction rules this grade out- if so, my argument is moot). I searched the current comiclink auction for 9.4 copies of Wolverine Ltd. Series (1982). There are 6 direct copies and 0 newsstand copies available. In the 'for sale' section, there are 10 copies shown (sold and unsold), all direct, 0 newsstand copies.

 

Again, I'm not arguing that there's a great premium, just that I'm willing to pay a premium when I find newsstand copies because they are harder for me to find, and I like them better. I bought them that way off the stand at the 7-11.

This is also what I've seen.

 

When it comes to books that I am buying, the newsstands don't turn up anywhere near the "equal numbers" that would constitute a strong argument for "no difference".

 

When the numbers in the market aren't equal, there's a pretty good chance that eventually the prices in the market won't be equal either.

[divad]

Oh, no... please, lets not lead this thread to getting locked...

 

 

-slym

 

That might be a better alternative to people taking RMA's rambling as fact.

[vaillant]

Oh, no... please, lets not lead this thread to getting locked...

 

 

-slym

 

That might be a better alternative to people taking RMA's rambling as fact.

 

Be nice, and stop grining…

[Jaydogrules]

Just because something "appears" to be less available doesn't mean it is "rare" or "scarce". And even when something actually is rare or scarce it doesn't mean it is valuable, or in this case has more value. People are trying a little too hard to rationalize over spending on a book just because it has a bar code on it. If you felt any real peace in doing so you wouldn't need to resort to personal attacks or attempts at belittling in order to justify it. You can spend your money on whatever you want, but the market at large does not put a premium on your news stand books. The people who post here represent an infinitesimal percentage of the comic book buying public. I see TONS of both versions of the few key copper books that there are always available at any given time. Newsstand versions are not rare or scarce. Nothing in the copper age is. And the vast majority of people see no reason to pay a premium. That's why there isn't any, or at least not of any consistency or significance. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

-J.

[HarrisonJohn]

Starting to see "newsstand" ebay listings for books prior to the direct market, some of them prior to the barcode box.

[divad]

Starting to see "newsstand" ebay listings for books prior to the direct market, some of them prior to the barcode box.

 

Which, of course, is incredibly silly.

[divad]

I see TONS of both versions of the few key copper books that there are always available at any given time.

 

-J.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but . . .

 

90 some odd listings for ASM 300 CGC, and only 9 are newsstand copies.

 

And you can run this search any week you want.

 

Now, which way are you going to slice that apple?

[divad]

I see TONS of both versions of the few key copper books that there are always available at any given time.

 

-J.

 

And further,

 

200 some odd SOLD listings for ASM 300 CGC, and only 28 are newsstand copies.

 

But numbers don't mean anything . . .

[divad]

Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree, at least on the books that I search for. As I mentioned earlier, I collect Miller DD and other Miller covers in CGC 9.4. (Maybe your "ultra high grade" distinction rules this grade out- if so, my argument is moot). I searched the current comiclink auction for 9.4 copies of Wolverine Ltd. Series (1982). There are 6 direct copies and 0 newsstand copies available. In the 'for sale' section, there are 10 copies shown (sold and unsold), all direct, 0 newsstand copies.

 

Again, I'm not arguing that there's a great premium, just that I'm willing to pay a premium when I find newsstand copies because they are harder for me to find, and I like them better. I bought them that way off the stand at the 7-11.

This is also what I've seen.

 

When it comes to books that I am buying, the newsstands don't turn up anywhere near the "equal numbers" that would constitute a strong argument for "no difference".

 

When the numbers in the market aren't equal, there's a pretty good chance that eventually the prices in the market won't be equal either.

 

exactomundo