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Heritage May 2014

482 posts in this topic

Do you mean potential consignors or potential bidders? It's safe to say that the former constitutes a larger pool than the latter. For bidders, though, the main players are generally known. Sure, there are anonymous guys, but for the most part, we know.

 

I have recently spoken with a couple of folks in-the-know and the pool of guys buying in the $100k+ range is higher - and much more private - than one would expect. It is not just the usual suspects.

 

For the most part, there haven't been too many surprises. New blood at that level, if it can be sustained, is a potential game-changer.

 

As I've mentioned to a few friends, I've had more unsolicited serious offers for some of my art in the last few months than I can remember. I'm used to getting low-ball offers, but these guys have been coming in STRONG. What's interesting is that they're not art guys, or even heavy slab collectors. They're just fans with, apparently, a lot of money. Maybe it's a phase. There may be no further implication on the hobby as a whole, but I am surprised by how easily some people make (relatively) crazy offers these days.

 

Crazy offers that are turned down might not be so crazy! Or maybe you both are.

 

Well, me, for sure! As a buddy of mine pointed out a while ago, OA can't be considered an investment because we'll rarely sell (well, most of us...I'm not including the day traders in this assessment). Whereas with any true investment, we'd cash out all day long at these multiples and drink a toast to our good fortune.

 

If I had a compelling need for the money, then I would have sold. But in terms of the hobby, I couldn't materially improve my collection with the proceeds and, more importantly, I simply like the pieces too much to sell. Without going into specifics, I got a $50K offer for one of my pieces. I got two separate $20K offers for the same piece several years ago, in 2009 (which represented a sizable increase from what I paid for it the year before). It was actually harder to turn down $20K back in 2009 because I had more wants at the time and could have used the money for those. And, more crucially, $20K went a lot farther in 2009 than $50K does in 2013/14.

 

Another indication of how nutty the hobby's gotten.

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Well, me, for sure! As a buddy of mine pointed out a while ago, OA can't be considered an investment because we'll rarely sell (well, most of us...I'm not including the day traders in this assessment). Whereas with any true investment, we'd cash out all day long at these multiples and drink a toast to our good fortune.

 

If I had a compelling need for the money, then I would have sold. But in terms of the hobby, I couldn't materially improve my collection with the proceeds and, more importantly, I simply like the pieces too much to sell. Without going into specifics, I got a $50K offer for one of my pieces. I got two separate $20K offers for the same piece several years ago, in 2009 (which represented a sizable increase from what I paid for it the year before). It was actually harder to turn down $20K back in 2009 because I had more wants at the time and could have used the money for those. And, more crucially, $20K went a lot farther in 2009 than $50K does in 2013/14.

 

Another indication of how nutty the hobby's gotten.

 

 

Well if that doesn't serve as a great assessment of the current state of the market I don't know what does. Thanks for sharing

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However, in the OA hobby where we value the page/piece on a standalone basis-- this Hulk #180 first appearance panel should be more coveted than a comparable panel page in #181.

 

 

I would think yes and no? I mean conceptually I hear what you are saying, but IIRC there are a lot of memorable pages in 181, especially the battle pages with hulk and wendigo. I'd certainly take this splash (if it existed I guess) over the 181 page, personally. Not that its a great rendition of wolverine, but the art is not really the point with this story. This page (and in fact some of the dialogue on it) is just so memorable to me; more so than the 180 page.

 

Now that's off the top of my head, without the book in front of me. Others may disagree but to me the Hulk/Wendigo/Wolvie battle was the most memorable part of the 180-182 arc and I'd ultimately prefer a really good page that had all three of them over the standalone 180 image.

 

The 180 is great, don't get me wrong. I'm just guessing that at least a couple of the 181 pages would give it a run for its money if not exceed it pricewise, if all existed. :)

 

But... since the comparable pages in issue 181 don't exist, nor does that splash, because they were burned up in the fire, then it's really a moot point, isn't it?

 

The 180 page is pretty much the one and only early Wolvie OA piece, not counting the 181 cover, and that's a whole different ball game.

 

Sky's the limit on this one. Will be VERY fun to watch. I predict a 3-bagger: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 

 

 

 

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However, in the OA hobby where we value the page/piece on a standalone basis-- this Hulk #180 first appearance panel should be more coveted than a comparable panel page in #181.

 

 

I would think yes and no? I mean conceptually I hear what you are saying, but IIRC there are a lot of memorable pages in 181, especially the battle pages with hulk and wendigo. I'd certainly take this splash (if it existed I guess) over the 181 page, personally. Not that its a great rendition of wolverine, but the art is not really the point with this story. This page (and in fact some of the dialogue on it) is just so memorable to me; more so than the 180 page.

 

Now that's off the top of my head, without the book in front of me. Others may disagree but to me the Hulk/Wendigo/Wolvie battle was the most memorable part of the 180-182 arc and I'd ultimately prefer a really good page that had all three of them over the standalone 180 image.

 

The 180 is great, don't get me wrong. I'm just guessing that at least a couple of the 181 pages would give it a run for its money if not exceed it pricewise, if all existed. :)

 

But... since the comparable pages in issue 181 don't exist, nor does that splash, because they were burned up in the fire, then it's really a moot point, isn't it?

 

The 180 page is pretty much the one and only early Wolvie OA piece, not counting the 181 cover, and that's a whole different ball game.

 

Sky's the limit on this one. Will be VERY fun to watch. I predict a 3-bagger: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 

 

Well all of that goes without saying and I agree. I know I'm going to get out the popcorn for that one.

 

 

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However, in the OA hobby where we value the page/piece on a standalone basis-- this Hulk #180 first appearance panel should be more coveted than a comparable panel page in #181.

 

 

I would think yes and no? I mean conceptually I hear what you are saying, but IIRC there are a lot of memorable pages in 181, especially the battle pages with hulk and wendigo. I'd certainly take this splash (if it existed I guess) over the 181 page, personally. Not that its a great rendition of wolverine, but the art is not really the point with this story. This page (and in fact some of the dialogue on it) is just so memorable to me; more so than the 180 page.

 

Now that's off the top of my head, without the book in front of me. Others may disagree but to me the Hulk/Wendigo/Wolvie battle was the most memorable part of the 180-182 arc and I'd ultimately prefer a really good page that had all three of them over the standalone 180 image.

 

The 180 is great, don't get me wrong. I'm just guessing that at least a couple of the 181 pages would give it a run for its money if not exceed it pricewise, if all existed. :)

 

But... since the comparable pages in issue 181 don't exist, nor does that splash, because they were burned up in the fire, then it's really a moot point, isn't it?

 

The 180 page is pretty much the one and only early Wolvie OA piece, not counting the 181 cover, and that's a whole different ball game.

 

Sky's the limit on this one. Will be VERY fun to watch. I predict a 3-bagger: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

 

 

Well all of that goes without saying and I agree. I know I'm going to get out the popcorn for that one.

 

 

Well, I'm going to work on some price discovery on this page...and hope for an infield single :grin:

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As for civilians, I'm not sure they'll make the same distinction between an interior and a cover the way comic collectors would. Without the same collecting baggage, I think they'd grasp the difference between the true first appearance vs. a key cover more easily (to the extent that they'd care at all).

 

Not only would a civilian not necessarily make the same distinction between an interior and a cover, a civilian is probably not even going to grasp the significance of a first appearance the way an OA collector who started off as a comic collector (i.e., virtually everyone in the hobby) would. Why would someone like Hugh Jackman care about the first Wolverine page featuring a version of the character who looks like he just stepped out of the cast of "Cats"? Surely if Hugh wanted a cool piece to hang in his study, a classic Byrne image like the X-Men #115 DPS would be more up his alley (not that I could envision Hugh Jackman in a million years sparing any time to even contemplate such things). If comic book collectors don't care that Hulk #180 is unquestionably Wolverine's true first appearance, a civilian sure as heck isn't going to.

 

Back to things that have gone down the rabbit hole, I'd also like to know where the ASM #121 cover ended up. Wonder if it's sitting next to that FF #55 half-splash somewhere. hm

 

 

Actually, gene! out of all the actors who have played Marvel or even DC movie heroes, Hugh Jackman is the CLOSEST one to the perfect pick to desire a first appearance that reminds him of a broadway play like Cats!!

 

Didn't you see him host the Tonys years ago?

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

 

; )

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We're throwing around some big number estimates on this piece. Not sure that people are willing to pay Hulk 181 cover prices on this panel page just because the rest doesn't exist (or hasn't surfaced). I guess we shall see.

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We're throwing around some big number estimates on this piece. Not sure that people are willing to pay Hulk 181 cover prices on this panel page just because the rest doesn't exist (or hasn't surfaced). I guess we shall see.

 

Nah, the Hulk #181 cover would sell in a whole other part of the stratosphere than the numbers we're talking about for this page.

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I was gonna bid, but the personalization in the margin killed it for me. All the other BSDs can breathe easy now...

I was gonna bid too, but then Gene got me so depressed that I couldn`t even get out of bed in the morning anymore, so then I got fired and now have no income to fund such a purchase. :insane:

 

 

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So who are the 3-4 folks that you guys think will go after this piece?

 

David Mandel has the GS X-Men 1 cover, so I think he'd be a no-brainer. Donnelly possibly also.

 

Who else?

 

 

 

 

I think most would be hesitant to actually throw names around. I will say that, without naming names, I would put the Spider-Man 1 buyer squarely on the list. That would be my first guess.

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We're throwing around some big number estimates on this piece. Not sure that people are willing to pay Hulk 181 cover prices on this panel page just because the rest doesn't exist (or hasn't surfaced). I guess we shall see.

 

Nah, the Hulk #181 cover would sell in a whole other part of the stratosphere than the numbers we're talking about for this page.

 

Do you think it would hit 1M?

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We're throwing around some big number estimates on this piece. Not sure that people are willing to pay Hulk 181 cover prices on this panel page just because the rest doesn't exist (or hasn't surfaced). I guess we shall see.

 

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of throwing out numbers for pieces like this. Ultimately meaningless. The BSDs who bid will decide what something like this sells for, everything else is just noise.

 

Having said that, unless I missed it, I haven't seen any prediction in the same neighborhood as what I'd expect for the cover. Covers rule the day, especially this one, which must rank at the top (or close to it) on the nostalgia scale for the current group of BSDs with that level of purchasing power.

 

I would not be surprised that IF the cover surfaces and is auctioned, that the page will end up looking like a (relatively) decent buy, no matter what it sells for in May. (With the usual caveat, of course.)

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So who are the 3-4 folks that you guys think will go after this piece?

 

David Mandel has the GS X-Men 1 cover, so I think he'd be a no-brainer. Donnelly possibly also.

 

Who else?

 

 

 

 

I think most would be hesitant to actually throw names around. I will say that, without naming names, I would put the Spider-Man 1 buyer squarely on the list. That would be my first guess.

 

In all fairness, sfcityduck...care to tell us who you are and what you buy? I see nothing identifying you in your posts. Which is, of course, your right. But if you prefer some degree of anonymity and privacy, maybe you can understand why others might as well and extend them the same courtesy?

 

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So who are the 3-4 folks that you guys think will go after this piece?

 

David Mandel has the GS X-Men 1 cover, so I think he'd be a no-brainer. Donnelly possibly also.

 

Who else?

 

 

 

 

I think most would be hesitant to actually throw names around. I will say that, without naming names, I would put the Spider-Man 1 buyer squarely on the list. That would be my first guess.

 

In all fairness, sfcityduck...care to tell us who you are and what you buy? I see nothing identifying you in your posts. Which is, of course, your right. But if you prefer some degree of anonymity and privacy, maybe you can understand why others might as well and extend them the same courtesy?

 

I am extremely respectful of anonymity and would not breach such confidences. However, Mandel and Donnelly both have public internet galleries in which they prominently display the art I am referencing under their real names. Mandel has also generously loaned his art, including the art I referenced, out to public institutions for display with the traditional "from the collection of" identification label for the art, and Donnelly runs an art business.

 

In short, neither has shown any interest in anonymity. So, your implied criticism of my post is not valid.

 

 

 

 

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And, no, I have no interest in sharing my identity publicly (although some board members know). I will tell you that I have previously disclosed that I have bought and sold Byrne-Austin X-Men art (and this Wolverine piece is extremely interesting to me). I own GA, SA, and BA comics, but really haven't been an active buyer of new comics, other than HC reprints of strip and Archive/Masterworks books, for many years. My collecting these days focuses on fine art.

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So who are the 3-4 folks that you guys think will go after this piece?

 

David Mandel has the GS X-Men 1 cover, so I think he'd be a no-brainer. Donnelly possibly also.

 

Who else?

 

 

 

 

I think most would be hesitant to actually throw names around. I will say that, without naming names, I would put the Spider-Man 1 buyer squarely on the list. That would be my first guess.

 

In all fairness, sfcityduck...care to tell us who you are and what you buy? I see nothing identifying you in your posts. Which is, of course, your right. But if you prefer some degree of anonymity and privacy, maybe you can understand why others might as well and extend them the same courtesy?

 

I am extremely respectful of anonymity and would not breach such confidences. However, Mandel and Donnelly both have public internet galleries in which they prominently display the art I am referencing under their real names. Mandel has also generously loaned his art, including the art I referenced, out to public institutions for display with the traditional "from the collection of" identification label for the art, and Donnelly runs an art business.

 

In short, neither has shown any interest in anonymity. So, your implied criticism of my post is not valid.

 

 

 

 

You asked who the 3-4 bidders might be for this auction. You then volunteered Mandel and Donnelly yourself. That still leaves others, and it's those others I'm suggesting may not want their interest known.

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So who are the 3-4 folks that you guys think will go after this piece?

 

David Mandel has the GS X-Men 1 cover, so I think he'd be a no-brainer. Donnelly possibly also.

 

Who else?

 

 

 

 

I think most would be hesitant to actually throw names around. I will say that, without naming names, I would put the Spider-Man 1 buyer squarely on the list. That would be my first guess.

 

In all fairness, sfcityduck...care to tell us who you are and what you buy? I see nothing identifying you in your posts. Which is, of course, your right. But if you prefer some degree of anonymity and privacy, maybe you can understand why others might as well and extend them the same courtesy?

 

I am extremely respectful of anonymity and would not breach such confidences. However, Mandel and Donnelly both have public internet galleries in which they prominently display the art I am referencing under their real names. Mandel has also generously loaned his art, including the art I referenced, out to public institutions for display with the traditional "from the collection of" identification label for the art, and Donnelly runs an art business.

 

In short, neither has shown any interest in anonymity. So, your implied criticism of my post is not valid.

 

 

 

 

I didn't think "Donnelly" was a singular.

 

 

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