Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[lizards2]

Not at my house.

You've got the hitchhiker sound-proofing? :think:

[VintageComics]

How can this not be regarded as destruction to the book. So much for CGC

detecting and punishing for a bad press. Has anyone brought this to the attention of Paul Litch ?

 

That smelled like BS from day one. What a transparent PR song and dance. Just tell them what they want to hear.

 

If a press is done properly (regardless of the eye appeal of the outcome), it is undetectable as all of these defects exist naturally.

 

 

CGC is not going to punish itself.

Of course not, especially if CCS is the one doing the pressing.

 

And herein lies the rub...or at least one of them.

 

With no cover shifting and no trimming, I would think it's physically impossible to get this sort of fanning effect unless the book is so flat that the pages are forced out the open end.

 

But how does this grade happen if the book does not get dinged for being too flat?

 

I've noticed downgrades and notations on books that were professionally pressed where graders have stated that the spine was too flat, even though I've held some of those books in hand before submission and the spine was definitely not "too flat".

 

I'm curious to know how these books do not get dinged for that?

 

 

[Wall-Crawler]

Is it possible though that the fanned pages are a result of the actual slabbing of the comic? Or a combo of things...Press, shrinking cover, 'pressure' from being encapsulated?

 

I have no idea, just speculating/throwing that out there as a possibility, but whatever the case may be, I definitely like the original 9.2 over the 9.6

[Davenport]

I definitely like the original 9.2 over the 9.6

That simple point should carry much more weight than it currently does. "Grade" should be related to the "as published" state and its desirability.

 

Books being flatter than they ever existed before shouldn't trump all other "Grade" considerations. Right? Unless you're offering flattening services, of course, and deem common sense gut-reactions as 'purist' nonsense.

 

Somewhere along the line the 'Grading Scale' disconnected from "as published" and became a "flatness of paper" scale. Even if books end up appearing "not right", even if the previous "as published" state is more authentic and appealing.

[VintageComics]

I definitely like the original 9.2 over the 9.6

That simple point should carry much more weight than it currently does. "Grade" should be related to the "as published" state and its desirability.

 

Books being flatter than they ever existed before shouldn't trump all other "Grade" considerations. Right? Unless you're offering flattening services, of course, and deem common sense gut-reactions as 'purist' nonsense.

 

Somewhere along the line the 'Grading Scale' disconnected from "as published" and became a "flatness of paper" scale. Even if books end up appearing "not right", even if the previous "as published" state is more authentic and appealing.

 

Your post leaves out the obvious fact that the entire reason pressed books are accepted (by those that accept them) is because they continue to look "as published" after being pressed. If a tree falls in a forest, etc.

 

I'm going to stay away from a pressing debate but the simple fact that you can't always tell if a book is pressed is significant.

[blazingbob]

I'm not sure about that any longer - I'm going to stay away from a pressing debate but the simple fact that you can't always tell if a book is pressed is significant.

 

With all the amateurs out there its a lot easier then it was before to spot pressing.

 

I see a lot of the "Wave" going on. Basically what I call the Beach and Corona look.

 

I see a lot of the "Fans" going on. Basically what I am now calling the "Parasols". Look very pretty but make sure you spin them around while walking.

 

The "Mist and toast" method where essentially you have a dry baked result. Not even sure if anything is removed but hey what the hell it needed a press anyway.

 

Maybe this new method can be call the "Costanza" since shrinkage is now one of the new side effects of pressing. Clearly somebody must be using cold water for that cover to now be "smaller".

[originalisbest]

I definitely like the original 9.2 over the 9.6

That simple point should carry much more weight than it currently does. "Grade" should be related to the "as published" state and its desirability.

 

Books being flatter than they ever existed before shouldn't trump all other "Grade" considerations. Right? Unless you're offering flattening services, of course, and deem common sense gut-reactions as 'purist' nonsense.

 

Somewhere along the line the 'Grading Scale' disconnected from "as published" and became a "flatness of paper" scale. Even if books end up appearing "not right", even if the previous "as published" state is more authentic and appealing.

 

Your post leaves out the obvious fact that the entire reason pressed books are accepted (by those that accept them) is because they continue to look "as published" after being pressed. If a tree falls in a forest, etc.

 

I'm going to stay away from a pressing debate but the simple fact that you can't always tell if a book is pressed is significant.

 

The funny thing about Dav and his notion of what "as published" means, is that I can only presume he'd better not have any admiration of, or presence of, mile high books in his collection (to pick the grandaddy of all pedigrees as an example seems appropriate.) Because the bottom halves of the mile high stacks were gloriously flattened, immensely flattened, as a pancake flattened, with all air squished out of their blinding white pages, and most certainly were discovered in a much more flattened state, than when first published and put out for sale to be purchased by Mr. Church.

 

Garbage all, the lot of them!

[jaeldubyoo]

So every book with the pages sticking out has been pressed?

There sure were a lot of books being pressed 30 years ago when I first payed attention to this defect.

They were pressed right in the factory too because all the books I bought off the newsstand were like this.

 

 

Yeah, I think the majority of my silver age FFs and Thors look this (front cover much shorter than the page overhang) and plenty of them are mid-grade copies I picked up for $10 20 years ago so I know they're not re-aligned or even pressed.

 

However, what namisgr is showing certainly looks like a major pancake job. I bet a back cover scan would also show the pages squeezed out past the back cover. I've bought a few slabbed books like this. It's disappointing, but with CGC being the holy arbiter it's just the way it is. I just wonder how these books hold up 10-20 years down the road after the smooshing.

 

That is going to be interesting.IF they are ever removed from the slabs.I really hope no beautiful books suffer.Or any books.Imagine if it turns to be detrimental after some time.So many comics....

They don't feel a thing.

Are you talking about the pressed or pressers?

[namisgr]

So with the general consensus being that the covers haven't been readjusted front-to-back to account for the fanning pages, the question remains how all of the books are getting this way.

 

For discussion's sake: is it possible that the books have been disassembled, just the cover pressed and shrunk, and then the books reassembled with the now-smaller cover? Or can the cover shrink that much from being moistened and pressed while the pages are still attached?

[Silver Surfer]

"The Costanza".

[joeypost]

So with the general consensus being that the covers haven't been readjusted front-to-back to account for the fanning pages, the question remains how all of the books are getting this way.

 

For discussion's sake: is it possible that the books have been disassembled, just the cover pressed and shrunk, and then the books reassembled with the now-smaller cover? Or can the cover shrink that much from being moistened and pressed while the pages are still attached?

Seems like a lot of work disassembling these books for a press.

[Davenport]

"The Costanza".

Yeah, that was Post-Of-The-Year.

 

Bob should do an illustrated 'Field Guide To Big Numbers' to aid collectors in the wild.

 

"Parasols: Look very pretty but make sure you spin them around while walking. "

[Bookery]

So every book with the pages sticking out has been pressed?

There sure were a lot of books being pressed 30 years ago when I first payed attention to this defect.

They were pressed right in the factory too because all the books I bought off the newsstand were like this.

 

 

Yeah, I think the majority of my silver age FFs and Thors look this (front cover much shorter than the page overhang) and plenty of them are mid-grade copies I picked up for $10 20 years ago so I know they're not re-aligned or even pressed.

 

However, what namisgr is showing certainly looks like a major pancake job. I bet a back cover scan would also show the pages squeezed out past the back cover. I've bought a few slabbed books like this. It's disappointing, but with CGC being the holy arbiter it's just the way it is. I just wonder how these books hold up 10-20 years down the road after the smooshing.

 

That is going to be interesting.IF they are ever removed from the slabs.I really hope no beautiful books suffer.Or any books.Imagine if it turns to be detrimental after some time.So many comics....

They don't feel a thing.

 

They cry in the night.

 

"The profound stillness of the dawn outside was shattered by a most uncommon sound. It came without warning, or audible approach; and it was unspeakably dreadful. It was a voice, Simpson declares, possibly a human voice; hoarse yet plaintive - a soft, roaring voice close outside the tent, overhead rather than upon the ground, of immense volume, while in some strange way most penetratingly and seductively sweet... The student admits he is unable to describe it quite intelligently, for it was unlike any sound he had ever heard in his life, and combined a blending of such contrary qualities. "A sort of windy, crying voice," he calls it, "as of something lonely and untamed, wild and of abominable power. . . ."

 

 

 

[DrWatson]

I don't believe a Wendigo is responsible. Perhaps one might try looking a little closer to home.

[Bomber-Bob]

Okay, tell me I'm way off here but is there a possibility of microtrimming on the right edge ? And 'if' true, the right edge fanning would mask it.

Look at the right edge of the 9.2 version. I see a few tiny, tiny chips.

I can see these same chips on the 9.6, but barely. They look even smaller, non existent.

Hopefully I am wrong but there has to be some explanation for this fanning, why it exists.

 

 

 

Any other explanations for why the pages now extend so far beyond the front cover?

 

 

[lizards2]

Okay, tell me I'm way off here but is there a possibility of microtrimming on the right edge ? And 'if' true, the right edge fanning would mask it.

Look at the right edge of the 9.2 version. I see a few tiny, tiny chips.

I can see these same chips on the 9.6, but barely. They look even smaller, non existent.

Hopefully I am wrong but there has to be some explanation for this fanning, why it exists.

 

 

 

Any other explanations for why the pages now extend so far beyond the front cover?

 

I think you may be on to something - look at the hands at lower right - the cover does seem to have disappeared some. There definitely seems to be some cover missing down there between the two versions.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Okay, tell me I'm way off here but is there a possibility of microtrimming on the right edge ? And 'if' true, the right edge fanning would mask it.

Look at the right edge of the 9.2 version. I see a few tiny, tiny chips.

I can see these same chips on the 9.6, but barely. They look even smaller, non existent.

Hopefully I am wrong but there has to be some explanation for this fanning, why it exists.

 

 

 

 

Any other explanations for why the pages now extend so far beyond the front cover?

 

I think you may be on to something - look at the hands at lower right - the cover does seem to have disappeared some. There definitely seems to be some cover missing down there between the two versions.

 

[asteroid-comix]

Okay, tell me I'm way off here but is there a possibility of microtrimming on the right edge ? And 'if' true, the right edge fanning would mask it.

Look at the right edge of the 9.2 version. I see a few tiny, tiny chips.

I can see these same chips on the 9.6, but barely. They look even smaller, non existent.

Hopefully I am wrong but there has to be some explanation for this fanning, why it exists.

 

 

 

 

Any other explanations for why the pages now extend so far beyond the front cover?

 

I think you may be on to something - look at the hands at lower right - the cover does seem to have disappeared some. There definitely seems to be some cover missing down there between the two versions.

 

 

Based on that, I don't see a difference. Using the black lines as a baseline, they look to be the same (although the quality of the scans are not).

[DrWatson]

I don't think it's trimmed. I think the process used to press the book shrunk the cover.

[MR SigS]

Yep.