Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[thehumantorch]

My opinion has been communicated to CGC via emails/phone calls.

 

Yes, there are guys on the boards who want to start trouble. Some are still carrying a torch for Matt from his Worldwide shill issue. Others are non-pressing and they bring an agenda to the table. I understand that takes a little more work on CCS/CGC's part when trying to respond to them but I prefer to confront the posts than ignore them. I've read all of CGC/CCS posts. Yes it is disheartening when people create paranoia but that generally happens when people don't know what is going on. And who is going to tell them the truth? CGC/CCS? Has CCS/CGC done a good job in the past at cutting something off before it runs out of control. The answer is No. To defend CCS a bit would any of the other "amateur" pressers have the balls to come on and defend their mistakes? I've seen plenty of pretty bad pressing, I haven't seen any threads throwing them under the bus and I could easily do that.

 

I have customers who are not happy with the responses CGC/CCS have given. These are very stable customers who I would not define as "paranoid". If one customer is emailing me then who isn't? There are a lot of big ticket lurkers who "disappear" from buying when stuff like this goes on. If people continue to see these "Facejobs as they call them" or "Costanza's as I do" they think CCS doesn't care what they are turning out. But rest assured CCS has now put a "This has been pressed" stamp on the book where one did not exist before. The problem is that if "Costanza's" still come out people will think CGC is doing nothing.

 

Here is my issue with the Spine Realignment press. If the Spine realignment is being downgraded is the "submitter" still being rewarded with a higher grade because he removed other defects or is the grade lower than it was before it was sent in? Clearly in the case of the Batman #23 the submitter still got a higher grade. Now I know that CGC doesn't know the grade of the book before it was sent in so how can they grade it lower than it was before to discourage this practice. In the case of the Batman #23 I probably would have stated that without the spine realignment this book would have gotten a 8.0. But without a "Before" picture there is no way to financially discourage the submitter. So it will still be possible to get an upgrade from a spine realignment process, just not as great an upgrade. A very drastic response to get it to stop is to cut the submitter off who is doing it which I would have threatened.

 

I continue to remind CCS/CGC that I am the one that sells your "Pressing and Grading". If CCS/CGC loses the integrity part of grading than CGC and I have nothing.

 

Without having to go through hundreds of pages, can someone easily c/p the CCS/CGC responses in one post?

The CGC and CCS are going to continue to do things their way and the reason there's a problem is because of the whiny asses on the CGC boards.

 

Thanks, Doc. I received two PMs with the same short and concise info.

 

Don't forget to look at the pretty pictures in the middle of this thread.

[comicdonna]

 

I have customers who are not happy with the responses CGC/CCS have given. These are very stable customers who I would not define as "paranoid". If one customer is emailing me then who isn't? There are a lot of big ticket lurkers who "disappear" from buying when stuff like this goes on.

Another sign of a problem is, i'm seeing several people showing up here in this thread, that rarely make an appearance. I hope something is done soon, to change this.

 

[MrBedrock]

See if you can guess which quotes belong to Matt and/or Plitch......

 

The fact that these covers are being shrunk is shocking, amazing and saddening.

 

To the individual responsible for the damage done to the books, and specifically pedigree copies in general, please stop.

 

I would have been very disappointed if I had won and a Constanza book showed up at my doorstep

 

Hideous and ruined forever. Love this hobby!

 

I think the person who 'may' have done these press jobs has probably lost their compass so doesn't know the way back here

 

I never disclose who I press books for,

 

The point of all of this is that the issue at hand is not as big as some people on the boards try to make it out to be

 

We (the graders) have no way of knowing if a book was previously certified or who sent it in

 

Doug seems to get grades nobody else can

 

Sorry but that's just plain BAD grading on CGC's part.

 

RSR & Cover Shrinkage are NOT that prevalent in our hobby.

 

Where is Zaid in all this?

 

At the end of the day, anything anyone does that jeopardizes the goose continuing to lay the golden egg will be ridiculed to the point people get beat into submission.

We've also had finfangfoom say that how people view shrinkage reflects directly on their character, Vintagecomics equate the present grading atmosphere to McCartyism, and seanfingh make comparisons between some responses and Bobby Knight's quotes on rape.

 

This thread is about to get good (thumbs u

[MrBedrock]

Another sign of a problem is, i'm seeing several people showing up here in this thread, that rarely make an appearance. I hope something is done soon, to change this.

I agree. We really didn't want to hear from those people.

[GACollectibles]

Another sign of a problem is, i'm seeing several people showing up here in this thread, that rarely make an appearance. I hope something is done soon, to change this.

I agree. We really didn't want to hear from those people.

 

This thing has sound?

[batman_fan]

I remain puzzled by the assertion -- repeated many times by a couple of people -- that just because prior to this thread page fanning was not much discussed, objecting to it now is inappropriate. That view assumes that grading criteria are static, which, of course, they aren't.

 

There were books that circa 1970 most people -- including me -- would have considered "mint." Many of those books would now be considered very fine, at best. How would you respond to someone who says, "Wait, you can't grade my a book a very fine. The defects you note weren't considered serious enough in 1970 to keep the book from being graded mint."

 

It seems perfectly reasonable to me for the hobby (and CGC) to change how important they consider certain defects to be. In this case, not only is page fanning ugly but current grading criteria may well result in its proliferation.

 

I agree. There are a lot of defects I avoid like the plague which I haven't posted about. Doesn't mean I don't avoid them just because I don't create a thread every day. I posted earlier in this thread a list of some of the stuff I avoid.

[MrBedrock]

Another sign of a problem is, i'm seeing several people showing up here in this thread, that rarely make an appearance. I hope something is done soon, to change this.

I agree. We really didn't want to hear from those people.

 

This thing has sound?

Don't you put sound to posts as you read them?

You wouldn't believe what yours sound like to me.

[drdonaldblake]

Can someone pls give a Cliff's notes synopsis of this thread up to this point?

[Silver Surfer]

Gary I just received this email notification in case you had any questions:

 

CCS Submissions at New York

 

CCS will be accepting submissions at New York Comic Con, October 10–13. Books will be sent to our office in Sarasota, Florida, for normal pressing. Matt Nelson will be at the show throughout the weekend, answering questions about CCS services. Visit booth #2522 to ask any questions about our services.

[batman_fan]

Can someone pls give a Cliff's notes synopsis of this thread up to this point?

 

CGCs in house restoration company pressed a bunch of books resulting in the front covers shrinking with many in a significant way. The appearance of the pressed books is seen by some people as a negative since now the interior pages are exposed. Other people don't care because you don't know if the shrinking is from the poor pressing or a natural occurrence and heck, the number in the upper left hand corner is bigger so that's more money. Matt came on and said its really not that big of a deal.

[skypinkblu]

Another sign of a problem is, i'm seeing several people showing up here in this thread, that rarely make an appearance. I hope something is done soon, to change this.

I agree. We really didn't want to hear from those people.

 

Just smack them around a little, you can quiet them down;)

 

Meanwhile, on a more serious note...what did you ascertain from the figures you got regarding the submissions from this collection?

 

I am sure it's something interesting, so please share with the class.

 

[namisgr]

In fairness, Matt also said his shop would try to reduce the problem going forward. I, for one, will be paying attention to how well they do on that. Because let's face it, when a book looks worse after a pressing than it did before, it was a bad pressing. And when it looks worse but gets a better grade, the grading was bad, too.

[VintageComics]

Other people don't care because you don't know if the shrinking is from the poor pressing or a natural occurrence and heck, the number in the upper left hand corner is bigger so that's more money.

 

This is utter BS. Not a single person has said it's OK, so let's stop perpetuating this untruth.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Thank you. Its almost as if we are getting lost in semantics and side arguments again, trying to justify why we shouldn't be upset or shocked at what we are seeing.

 

Nobody is lost in semantics.

 

The discussion is not about whether people like it or not, that much has been uniformly established. Everyone dislikes it, admittedly to varying degrees.

 

The discussion is now about how to deal with it.

 

 

 

[MrBedrock]

Another sign of a problem is, i'm seeing several people showing up here in this thread, that rarely make an appearance. I hope something is done soon, to change this.

I agree. We really didn't want to hear from those people.

 

Just smack them around a little, you can quiet them down;)

 

Meanwhile, on a more serious note...what did you ascertain from the figures you got regarding the submissions from this collection?

 

I am sure it's something interesting, so please share with the class.

 

I was just trying to get a handle on the percentages. If it was a smaller number of books with a higher percentage of shrinkage, as it appears was the case, then I would guess (very much emphasis on "guess") that the problem lies with the process on that particular batch of books. If, on the other hand, it had been a smaller percentage on a much larger batch the problem could have been something else.

 

I think we all also need a clear picture of the exact numbers when we start discussing and forming our opinions and arguments. Especially when we are showing a relatively small number of examples and extrapolating that information out over an entire set of books, starting with a collection and growing to an era of comics as a whole.

 

 

[GACollectibles]

Another sign of a problem is, i'm seeing several people showing up here in this thread, that rarely make an appearance. I hope something is done soon, to change this.

I agree. We really didn't want to hear from those people.

 

This thing has sound?

Don't you put sound to posts as you read them?

You wouldn't believe what yours sound like to me.

 

If it's "Oh Richard, facejob me!" that's kinda creepy.

[skypinkblu]

Another sign of a problem is, i'm seeing several people showing up here in this thread, that rarely make an appearance. I hope something is done soon, to change this.

I agree. We really didn't want to hear from those people.

 

Just smack them around a little, you can quiet them down;)

 

Meanwhile, on a more serious note...what did you ascertain from the figures you got regarding the submissions from this collection?

 

I am sure it's something interesting, so please share with the class.

 

I was just trying to get a handle on the percentages. If it was a smaller number of books with a higher percentage of shrinkage, as it appears was the case, then I would guess (very much emphasis on "guess") that the problem lies with the process on that particular batch of books. If, on the other hand, it had been a smaller percentage on a much larger batch the problem could have been something else.

 

I think we all also need a clear picture of the exact numbers when we start discussing and forming our opinions and arguments. Especially when we are showing a relatively small number of examples and extrapolating that information out over an entire set of books, starting with a collection and growing to an era of comics as a whole.

 

 

Thank you, that makes perfect sense...and my "guess" was the same. I also "guessed" and I mean "guessed" that the same method "might" have been used before, but much more sparingly but this time there might have been more "pressure" applied.

[Mr.Diggler]

Other people don't care because you don't know if the shrinking is from the poor pressing or a natural occurrence and heck, the number in the upper left hand corner is bigger so that's more money.

 

This is utter BS. Not a single person has said it's OK, so let's stop perpetuating this untruth.

 

The books are in blue labels with some sporting higher grades, looks like the CGC thinks things are ok. Nothing to see here.

[paperheart]

Thank you. Its almost as if we are getting lost in semantics and side arguments again, trying to justify why we shouldn't be upset or shocked at what we are seeing.

 

Nobody is lost in semantics.

 

The discussion is not about whether people like it or not, that much has been uniformly established. Everyone dislikes it, admittedly to varying degrees.

 

The discussion is now about how to deal with it.

 

 

 

i suspect the guy who received the grades bumps didn't mind.

[Green]

Other people don't care because you don't know if the shrinking is from the poor pressing or a natural occurrence and heck, the number in the upper left hand corner is bigger so that's more money.

 

This is utter BS. Not a single person has said it's OK, so let's stop perpetuating this untruth.

 

 

Matt Nelson and Paul Litch have both made it clear its alright. No biggie. Nothing to see here. Move along.