Cole Schave collection: face jobs?
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General consensus is that these are examples of significant cover shrinkage. Costanza's, as Blazingbob put it.

 

I'll admit that I don't have the experience that most of you guys have, but I would think that if the book were wet enough to cause shrinkage, there would be damage caused elsewhere that CGC could detect. Water lines, ink damage, something.

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When the shrinkage is this severe, how can it not be classified as restoration ? Something, specifically the right edge of the cover, has been removed. Tell me how, from an end result, this is any different than trimming?

Edited by bomber-bob

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It's unfortunately happening with pedigree comics as well.

 

From the CGC gallery:

 

JIM88NLcgcgallery.jpg

 

From the Pedigree auction:

 

JIM88NLpedigree.jpg

 

This is an abomination...why is Doug ruining all these books? :mad:

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When the shrinkage is this severe, how can it not be classified as restoration ? Something, specifically the right edge of the cover, has been removed. Tell me how, from an end result, this is any different than trimming?

 

That seems like a logical point. Something has been removed.

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When the shrinkage is this severe, how can it not be classified as restoration ? Something, specifically the right edge of the cover, has been removed. Tell me how, from an end result, this is any different than trimming?

 

That seems like a logical point. Something has been removed.

 

I'd originally thought that it was just pressing causing that change but I suppose moisture is a possible cause.

 

I'm not at all defending the practice but I think it's worth pointing out that paper does shrink over time, especially Silver Age Marvels.

 

 

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Ths is an abomination...why is Doug ruining all these books? :mad:

Doug's just paying for a press job.

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When the shrinkage is this severe, how can it not be classified as restoration ? Something, specifically the right edge of the cover, has been removed. Tell me how, from an end result, this is any different than trimming?

It's not trimming. Everything is still there, just smaller.

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It's unfortunately happening with pedigree comics as well.

 

From the CGC gallery:

 

JIM88NLcgcgallery.jpg

 

From the Pedigree auction:

 

JIM88NLpedigree.jpg

 

This is an abomination...why is Doug ruining all these books? :mad:

 

Need you ask?

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I don't think the spine was shifted. I think it was wet, had the hell pressed out of it, and shrunk.
I'll bet you say that to all the boys..., :luhv:

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I'm not at all defending the practice but I think it's worth pointing out that paper does shrink over time, especially Silver Age Marvels.

 

 

Roy, your reference is explaining a possible cause for the cover overhang.

'I had heard that it was because the paper shrank as it aged, and that the interior and exterior pages shrank at different rates (or different ways, depending on the grain direction of the pulp). It was my understanding that because the interior pages were of different paper stock/quality than the covers that they shrank as they dried whereas the covers didn't (or not as much).'

In this case, the Costanza effect has the cover shrinking, not the pages.

If your reference is accurate, this is not a natural effect.

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With page fanning like that, should it have gotten a 9.6? A grade drop would have been more appropriate, no?

Edited by CatskillMike

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When the shrinkage is this severe, how can it not be classified as restoration ? Something, specifically the right edge of the cover, has been removed. Tell me how, from an end result, this is any different than trimming?

It's not trimming. Everything is still there, just smaller.

 

So - just the size has been removed?

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It's unfortunately happening with pedigree comics as well.

 

From the CGC gallery:

 

JIM88NLcgcgallery.jpg

 

From the Pedigree auction:

 

JIM88NLpedigree.jpg

 

This is an abomination...why is Doug ruining all these books? :mad:

 

Need you ask?

 

No, not really. lol

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This is an abomination...why is Doug ruining all these books? :mad:

 

Need you ask?

 

No, not really. lol

 

Until CGC starts to downgrade comics for press jobs like these Costanzas, the financial incentive of a potential upgrade will win out. Same as with the face jobs, runny ink arrival dates, crush marks along the spine, and indented maverick staples. And with an in-house for-fee pressing service producing at least some if not all of these defects, that seems highly unlikely to happen.

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It's unfortunately happening with pedigree comics as well.

 

From the CGC gallery:

 

JIM88NLcgcgallery.jpg

 

From the Pedigree auction:

 

JIM88NLpedigree.jpg

 

This is an abomination...why is Doug ruining all these books? :mad:

 

Planet_of_the_greed_apes_by_roberlan_zps28666ec2.jpg

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It's unfortunately happening with pedigree comics as well.

 

From the CGC gallery:

 

JIM88NLcgcgallery.jpg

 

From the Pedigree auction:

 

JIM88NLpedigree.jpg

 

This is an abomination...why is Doug ruining all these books? :mad:

 

I sold this as a 9.4 and it was a stunning, fresh looking book.

 

I've probably still got a scan of it in the 9.4 holder but it's obvious it's changed from the 9.6 scans. :(

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Until CGC starts to downgrade comics for press jobs like these Costanza, the financial incentive of a potential upgrade will win out. Same as with the face jobs, runny ink arrival dates, crush marks along the spine, and indented maverick staples. And with an in-house for-fee pressing service producing at least some if not all of these defects, that seems highly unlikely to happen.

Damn. :ohnoez:

 

There's a very real need for an official CG Glossary of Terms thread. It's becoming next to impossible to keep up with the ever-growing roster of new terms. And heaven help the casual reader who wanders in.

 

Examples:

 

Crop Circles: From the 'indent' thread, that ridge/bulge "puddling" of Barex material.

 

Costanza: from this thread.

 

Face Job: from a previous thread, used in the title of this one. That 'smeared spine' effect, factory-fold pushed around back.

 

No clue what "Indented Maverick Staples" are. (shrug)

 

Anyway, 100% serious. Some thread to look up a term, or ask. Hopefully by someone who hangs around here enough to know when a term has 'stuck', become part of the language, shows up in the conversations. :wishluck::wishluck:

 

 

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Until CGC starts to downgrade comics for press jobs like these Costanza, the financial incentive of a potential upgrade will win out. Same as with the face jobs, runny ink arrival dates, crush marks along the spine, and indented maverick staples. And with an in-house for-fee pressing service producing at least some if not all of these defects, that seems highly unlikely to happen.

Damn. :ohnoez:

 

There's a very real need for an official CG Glossary of Terms thread. It's becoming next to impossible to keep up with the ever-growing roster of new terms. And heaven help the casual reader who wanders in.

 

Examples:

 

Crop Circles: From the 'indent' thread, that ridge/bulge "puddling" of Barex material.

 

Costanza: from this thread.

 

Face Job: from a previous thread, used in the title of this one. That 'smeared spine' effect, factory-fold pushed around back.

 

No clue what "Indented Maverick Staples" are. (shrug)

 

Anyway, 100% serious. Some thread to look up a term, or ask. Hopefully by someone who hangs around here enough to know when a term has 'stuck', become part of the language, shows up in the conversations. :wishluck::wishluck:

 

tumblr_m7oduvUM0v1rre7gx.gif

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It's unfortunately happening with pedigree comics as well.

 

From the CGC gallery:

 

JIM88NLcgcgallery.jpg

 

From the Pedigree auction:

 

JIM88NLpedigree.jpg

 

This is an abomination...why is Doug ruining all these books? :mad:

 

I sold this as a 9.4 and it was a stunning, fresh looking book.

 

I've probably still got a scan of it in the 9.4 holder but it's obvious it's changed from the 9.6 scans. :(

 

doh!

 

Press it once, twice, three times, I'm greedy, whoaa...oh...whoa...

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I'm not at all defending the practice but I think it's worth pointing out that paper does shrink over time, especially Silver Age Marvels.

 

 

Roy, your reference is explaining a possible cause for the cover overhang.

'I had heard that it was because the paper shrank as it aged, and that the interior and exterior pages shrank at different rates (or different ways, depending on the grain direction of the pulp). It was my understanding that because the interior pages were of different paper stock/quality than the covers that they shrank as they dried whereas the covers didn't (or not as much).'

In this case, the Costanza effect has the cover shrinking, not the pages.

If your reference is accurate, this is not a natural effect.

 

Agreed. I was simply trying to show that shrinkage of the cover is the most likely explanation, not that it was natural in this case.

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