Insane press and flip Avengers 1.

[Ze-man]

From watching an old 1940s newsreel, apparently some if not all magazines were stacked and put in a three sided guillotine after being folded and stapled, in order to trim off the uneven edges, although pulp magazines typically had rough edges to the guts and cover overhangs, so clearly this wasn't a universal proposition.

 

Different rates of paper shrinkage due to stock would help explain the small cover overhangs found on many older comics.

 

I have noticed that even new comics printed on slick stock still have a slight v at the reading edge.

 

Something else to consider. Comics and magazines tend to "plump up" at the spine as a reaction from the paper resisting the fold. Assuming they are pressed by a heavy weight when stacked for shearing, it would make sense as they revert back to their more curved spines, that the outer pages pull back from just a tiny bit further than those closer to the staples.

 

Bingo, I have also wondered if a comics location in the stack directly after trimming affected it's drying rate. With the comics closer to the top, drying or pulling inwardly more. As opposed to those nearer the bottom, under weight.

 

But as Buttock brought up earlier...how in Gods Green Earth does the V effect only begin to appear halfway up the books right reading edge?

 

Take any SA comic and show me where the V effect is as pronounced at the bottom reading edge, as it is at the top.

 

This is what I simply cannot wrap my noodle around.

 

You fold 8 pieces of paper, and an even V effect forms on the right reading edge.

 

You fold 8 pieces of paper, and trim the right reading edge. And where it pulls back as the folds puff up..you see an even v form.

 

So how exactly the V effect is selective on folded, trimmed comics book (SA especially). I haven't a clue.

 

 

 

 

 

[oakman29]

Court jesters in the presence of "board royalty" if we are reading the boards correctly.

 

Board Royalty We are but pawns in Roy's world.

[rjpb]

The problem with the uneven rates of shrinkage theory is that the paper should pull back to a v on all three exposed sides if this were true.

 

Do perfect bound Giants show the v pattern at the edge?

 

Most but not all are sheared on all four sides before the glue is applied, and consist of two or more sets of folded wraps, stacked before cutting. If Giants don't show a v pattern ( unaccompanied by spine curvature from reading) then it pretty much shoots the shrinkage theory to hell.

[fantastic_four]

I'm basing my theory on stuff that was said or written by either Trace or Dice (both whom are more knowledgeable than me in that area) and by my own observations.

 

DiceX wrote it because he used to work on a print production line. He's the only person I've ever seen on the boards or anywhere else with first-hand experience write explicit details about how the printing process has worked at different points in time. I think Kevin76 may have done some work in printing as well, but his posts on it are mostly useless ones like the one that he just posted informing us just how uninformed we all are. I was thinking along the same lines as Ricky and Sharon, that the V on the right edge was there due to folding, until Dice posted that production mechanics thread many years ago. It is quite clear that modern comics do not have the V, so before Dice told us that all three edges are trimmed now and also were in the 60s and 70s, I assumed they changed the way they do the trimming at some point. He suggests otherwise.

 

That thread used to be stickied--what happened to it? I'll dig it out, or get Dice in here. It has been so long since he's made an informative post that most boardies probably have no expectation of such a thing from him.

[fantastic_four]

Found it--it's sticked in the "Grading and Restoration Issues" forum.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=464927

 

Here is the ultra-informative bit about the production process that Roy and I are basing our info on.

 

If you have a local printer near you with a bindery, I suggest you call them up and ask for a tour.

Most printers have regular tours and are proud to show you an overview of the craft.

 

The body pages and covers are printed separately (obviously).

Each untrimmed section of the book is then fed into a pocket in the binder.

The pages are folded down the spine, but are made up of 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, or even 32 individual pages in each section. (They can be up to 128 pages in certain presses and formats.)

Note that each section must be divisible by 4. One sheet folded in half to create four pages (front and back).

The pages are delivered on the press that will stack and prefold the sections of the book.

 

Back to the binder...

Each untrimmed section is loaded into a "pocket" on the binder.

The binder has a long chain with a tooth on it that grabs one section of the book from each pocket and stacks them inside one another.

When it gets to the end, it gets "stitched" (stapled).

Then it goes into the trimmer.

The trimmer cuts the book on the top, bottom, and face.

Then it stacks a predetermined number of books and straps (or shrinkwraps) the bundle to be put on a skid and shipped out to distributors.

The size of the book is easily changed by the operator. If he notices during the run that an element of the book is getting trimmed off, he can trim it slightly larger to prevent text (or whatever) from getting cut off.

If he (or she) notices that a page that should bleed off the sides is showing a little strip of white, it can be trimmed slightly smaller.

Binders have quite a size range that they can trim.

Ours trim books from 6"x10" up to 10"x16".

 

I think the idea that books are cut before they are assembled comes from the fact that the covers are sometimes slightly larger than the body pages.

This is actually caused from the newsprint that comics used to be printed on.

See...the paper has just gone through the printing press that uses ink and water to transfer the print to the page. The water ("etch" or "fountain solution") causes the paper to shrink. It usually doesn't stop shrinking until the book has been bound.

The paper used for the cover is much higher quality, and thus does not shrink as much as the newsprint used on the inside. So what you end up with is a cover that is slightly larger than the body pages. Even though the book was evenly trimmed when it was bound.

 

And there you have it.

Binding 101.

[VintageComics]

Thanks. That's partly where I got my info from.

 

[HighVoltage]

Something like this. This is pretty basic, but it should give you the idea of the process.

 

 

[MrBedrock]

 

 

I think the idea that books are cut before they are assembled comes from the fact that the covers are sometimes slightly larger than the body pages.

This is actually caused from the newsprint that comics used to be printed on.

See...the paper has just gone through the printing press that uses ink and water to transfer the print to the page. The water ("etch" or "fountain solution") causes the paper to shrink. It usually doesn't stop shrinking until the book has been bound.

The paper used for the cover is much higher quality, and thus does not shrink as much as the newsprint used on the inside. So what you end up with is a cover that is slightly larger than the body pages. Even though the book was evenly trimmed when it was bound.

 

Thanks. That's partly where I got my info from.

 

 

What Dice is saying means something totally different than what you were quoted as saying...

 

As pages age they dry. As the pulp dries, the pages change size. In the case of comics, they fan with the inner most pages staying the freshest (widest) and the outermost pages drying out ending up the shortest.

 

...unless you were talking about the first few minutes of the aging process.

[DeliBebek]

 

I think the idea that books are cut before they are assembled comes from the fact that the covers are sometimes slightly larger than the body pages.

This is actually caused from the newsprint that comics used to be printed on.

See...the paper has just gone through the printing press that uses ink and water to transfer the print to the page. The water ("etch" or "fountain solution") causes the paper to shrink. It usually doesn't stop shrinking until the book has been bound.

The paper used for the cover is much higher quality, and thus does not shrink as much as the newsprint used on the inside. So what you end up with is a cover that is slightly larger than the body pages. Even though the book was evenly trimmed when it was bound.

 

Thanks. That's partly where I got my info from.

 

 

What Dice is saying means something totally different than what you were quoted as saying...

 

As pages age they dry. As the pulp dries, the pages change size. In the case of comics, they fan with the inner most pages staying the freshest (widest) and the outermost pages drying out ending up the shortest.

 

...unless you were talking about the first few minutes of the aging process.

Overhang and Vs can't be formed by the same process for the same reason, can they? They seem like opposites.

 

I know very little about printing, but weren't older comics printed on half-size rolls on broadsheet presses? I've seen saddle-stitched publications come off those types of presses and they did get cut after folding. I had assumed that was similar to the older methods and that presses became more specialized over the years.

[etanick]

I found this...interesting

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-6/Comic-Book.html#b

 

I guess depends on the process, if the books are cut before the fold, then the V shape thingy is there but if the book is stapled and fold and then cut/trim then there is no "V"

[drbanner]

I found this...interesting

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-6/Comic-Book.html#b

 

I guess depends on the process, if the books are cut before the fold, then the V shape thingy is there but if the book is stapled and fold and then cut/trim then there is no "V"

 

(thumbs u

 

"The printed sheets or the roll of paper are then cut to the proper size, stacked, folded, and stapled or glued to form the finished comic book."

 

There's no way that v-shape is formed by differential shrinkage in the 1st folio to the middle folio due to drying out of the paper.