EBAY: BLOCKED USER LIST 54 54

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 minutes ago, kav said:

Just because you dont like a comment doesnt mean it's 'trying to 'inflame conflict'.  You may demand everyone agree with you but they have a right not to.  Look the guy sold a book listed as 'near mint'.  You said it might be a 9.0.  Guess what-according to CGC. 9.0 IS near mint!  Plus the fact that you yourself said grading is subjective-one person may grade a couple grade points different from another.  He sold a book in good faith and wasnt unreasonable in his grading and now you want to change the deal and keep books, send in for grading, have him pay for pressing, then keep the ones that come back in a grade you're comfortable with.  I find it difficult to believe you would not blow your top if someone made these demands on you and questioned your grading.

This is a provocative comment, meant solely to inflame conflict, regardless of any other merit it may or may not have. 

Your comments are not good faith efforts to come to an understanding, but rather to provoke conflict. I would appreciate if you would find other people to interact with.

Thank you.

[kav]

On 4/23/2018 at 3:02 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

This is a provocative comment, meant solely to inflame conflict, regardless of any other merit it may or may not have. 

Your comments are not good faith efforts to come to an understanding, but rather to provoke conflict. I would appreciate if you would find other people to interact with.

Thank you.

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by kav

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, kav said:

I thought you were this big advocate for 'free and open' communication?  W-what happened?  No, you do not get to tell me my motives.  This is a comic board, if someone posts something another person disagrees with, they get to say so.  You dont get to pick who you want to comment just because what they are saying rings true and you dont like it.  My comments are 100% an effort to come to an understanding.

This is a provocative comment, meant solely to inflame conflict, regardless of any other merit it may or may not have. 

Your comments are not good faith efforts to come to an understanding, but rather to provoke conflict. I would appreciate if you would find other people to interact with.

Thank you.

[ADAMANTIUM]

Just now, kav said:

No sorry I will continue to post whatever I want within CGC forum-not your-guidelines.

I mean really. He didn't have one person see it his way or agree with his treatment of this seller. I'd bow out kav, no one else needs convincing. 

[kav]

Just now, ADAMANTIUM said:

I mean really. He didn't have one person see it his way or agree with his treatment of this seller. I'd bow out kav, no one else needs convincing. 

Yep you're right.  At least I exposed the 'free and open communication' thing....

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I mean really. He didn't have one person see it his way or agree with his treatment of this seller. I'd bow out kav, no one else needs convincing. 

Is there a reason you're needlessly stoking conflict? Have I done something to offend you personally...?

I didn't have "one person" see it my way...? First, only one person has made a legitimate reply, and that person...that would be Turtle...posted this:

2 hours ago, Turtle said:

I'm certainly not taking the side of the seller.  In my mind, you're right.

 

2 hours ago, Turtle said:

And you're not wrong.  Pressing does have value.  Your time does have value.  The seller did agree to your proposal.  And I'll give you that it does take more than 5 minutes to inspect 20 comics in this situation.  All given.

Given that, do you think your characterization here is a fair, even-handed one...?

If I have done something to you personally that has offended you, I would be more than willing to work it out, if that's possible. Otherwise...why go out of your way to create enemies...?

You're new, so you're not familiar with kav and his antics, but I might suggest doing a little research before getting into bed with folks like him.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You're new, so you're not familiar with kav and his antics, but I might suggest doing a little research before getting into bed with folks like him.

This is a provocative comment, meant solely to inflame conflict, regardless of any other merit it may or may not have. 

Your comments are not good faith efforts to come to an understanding, but rather to provoke conflict. I would appreciate if you would find other people to interact with.

Thank you.

[ADAMANTIUM]

As far as what happened with the seller, I'd just be thankful he was willing to work as far as he did. He was at least trying to make the seller whole. And @RockMyAmadeus it's not that you "mistreated" the seller, it never hurts to ask. But after all the back and forth, it's hard to remember the original complaint. If the dealer promised such and such, then yes he should follow through. It seemed the seller was at least attempting to remedy the situation. 

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Is there a reason you're needlessly stoking conflict? Have I done something to offend you personally...?

I didn't have "one person" see it my way...? First, only one person has made a legitimate reply, and that person...that would be Turtle...posted this:

 

Given that, do you think your characterization here is a fair, even-handed one...?

If I have done something to you personally that has offended you, I would be more than willing to work it out, if that's possible. Otherwise...why go out of your way to create enemies...?

You're new, so you're not familiar with kav and his antics, but I might suggest doing a little research before getting into bed with folks like him.

I thank you for you courteous response and no I was not aware of any antics.  I did see you trying to find a solution and some butting heads.... I was just trying to get back to your issue.... I hope it gets resolved to your liking. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

No hard feelings RMA it's just it was about to escalate with no real winner and then everyone would be pointing fingers. No you haven't offended me, I hope nor I you. Just a lot of thought have been put into your responses and people tried to simplify. I don't want to read things that are not there, and it seems it is the waiting game anyway to see if the seller follows through. I do hope this works out and am glad the seller was listening, I just hope that he is able.  @RockMyAmadeus

[ADAMANTIUM]

And now tumble weeds. 

My apologies RMA 

[Poka]

If a buyer has any concerns I would much rather prefer that buyer gets back to me with all issues in one go rather than on a piecemail basis. 

If a buyer comes back to me with a request to press and grade at my cost and risk I would rather that the buyer returns the items.

[RockMyAmadeus]

5 hours ago, Turtle said:

The first set of statements written in italics are things that went through my mind as I read through the post.  I didn't intend to project anything onto the seller.  I intended to BE the seller in this mental exercise.  The difference is subtle, but not inconsequential.  Those statements aren't what I think the seller was thinking.  The statements were what I would be thinking if I were in the seller's position.  Hence the part about not offering partial refunds...I don't offer them as a rule.  I don't presume to know the actual seller's policy on partial refunds.  And a red flag to me isn't necessarily a red flag for someone else.  I was going off my own experience.  I typed the statements out not to make an argument for the seller, but more to offer a perspective that maybe you hadn't considered. 

I understand where you were coming from, but you know that some people reading here aren't the most diligent in making sure they've read everything through properly, so I didn't want them to get the wrong impression, if I could avoid it. Uphill battle, no doubt. There was even someone conflating two entirely separate situations, because he or she didn't pay attention. 

5 hours ago, Turtle said:

The mistake occurred before all that.  When the books weren't as described, the seller should be contacted and made aware.  Upon being made aware, the seller should have offered a full refund, shipping included.  Given how this played out, do you not agree with this?

I don't. But that doesn't mean I think you're wrong. Your answer is the best answer, certainly, in some, even many, cases. However...this is not the first time I've done this...as buyer OR seller...and I think it provides a great touchstone for people to test their grading against CGC's. And as I said in another thread, I could certainly be way off base in my estimation, too. 14-15 years ago, I sold someone on eBay two raw X-Men...#118 and #128...as "NM+ 9.6." He didn't agree with my grades, so I suggested he send them in to CGC. Now, that does involve some risk, but in that case, I was reasonably assured that the buyer didn't further damage the books, either purposely or through carelessness/negligence. They came back 9.0 and 9.2. In that situation, I'd overestimated flaws (in #118's case, a bit of foxing) that I shouldn't have. And it wasn't as if I was *that* far off...after all, in the olden days, VF/NM or NM- to NM+ wasn't something anyone really made an issue of...but it was a good lesson for me. 

In the case of the BP #1s, even with the rusty staples, I saw potential. And, I could very well have been wrong, and overestimated those rusty staples' impact on the grades.I paid about $65 a copy for those four copies. "8.0" is about the "break even" point at that price on GPA, when slabbing and other costs are factored in. If I had gotten a 9.4, I would have done quite well...and, if you read the seller's description, he says himself (paraphrasing) "I was going to press these myself, and make a lot more money, but I'll leave that for the buyer." In that case, the seller was admitting to "leaving money on the table"...that's his right, but it's also his responsibility. If I take the risk, I deserve the reward, just as anyone does. 

In this case, the SELLER was the one who stood the chance to benefit most, because the books had an upper limit grade cap due to the rust. Consider: he'd get 1-4 books that were properly pressed and properly graded; carried to CGC, submitted onsite, then shipped back to him, in BETTER condition than he sold them to me for, without having to lift a finger in the process. He didn't have to stand in line, he didn't have to fill out paperwork, he didn't have to pick up the slabs and send them. 

And do not forget: had any or all the books come back 8.5 or higher, the seller WOULD NOT be responsible for issuing ANY refund for those copies. Functionally, I would end up paying the full price for those copies that passed, as if the staple rust didn't exist at all.

Put another way: I don't think any reasonable person agrees that those four BP #1s were accurately described, and therefore, the price I initially paid was more than they were fairly worth. But under the terms of the proposal I made to the seller, if any or all four books had come back 8.5 or higher, the seller would get to keep the full price I paid for those, even though they weren't worth that. And, if any or all of them had come back 8.0 or lower, the seller would get...without any effort on his part...books that were improved and graded, and even if he had to refund the purchase price for those, he would still have graded copies which he could then sell for a price commensurate with their grade, at a much lower cost than I had to pay.

I think, in light of that, that the seller had absolutely nothing to lose, and much to gain. That he ultimately chose the partial refund route was, in my opinion, shortsightedness on his part. And I don't think I am being remotely unreasonable in that regard.

And don't get me wrong...in the interest of total transparency, there is absolutely an element of "I told you so" to this, potentially for either side. I can't deny that that element exists, and there's a measure of satisfaction one can get from having your point proven, for the seller OR the buyer.

It's an interesting experiment, to be sure, and not suited for everyone.

5 hours ago, Turtle said:

True, you did confess that you missed the pressing portion of your initial proposal, but that's not the sticking point for me.  Maybe we see it differently, but to me, assuming responsibility would be admitting "I should have just gotten a refund, I made a mistake when I proposed anything different". 

I understand where you're coming from, and I certainly see the wisdom in your course of action. I just disagree that my course is a mistake. I agree that it was a mistake with this seller, or, perhaps if I'd been a little more diligent, it would have turned out better...but keep in mind that regardless of my course of action, the seller still 1. sent out rusty stapled books undisclosed, 2. sent out overgraded books, 3. forgot/did not include 2 of the 9 books in one lot, and 4. sent out a book with a torn out page that was also undisclosed.

None of those things could have been avoided by any course of action I took. That I tried to mitigate the loss, for both myself AND him, I don't see as a bad thing. Had I just sent everything back, I would have lost all the time I had invested in those transactions...and counting pages is a chore, let me tell you!...and had nothing to show for it...even though I hadn't done anything wrong. The seller would have gotten the books back to sell to some other sucker, er, customer, and perhaps for potentially more, and would only have been out shipping (which he wouldn't have been if he'd accurately described the items he sold.)

I like to think this alternative is a way in which both the buyer AND the seller can benefit...the seller by keeping the sale, and the buyer by potentially making something more out of it, if possible. Rather than both parties losing, and the buyer having nothing to show for it, it's a chance for both parties to gain.

I count a LOT of pages... 

5 hours ago, Turtle said:

All of this is really just splitting hairs.  My main point isn't that a mistake was made.  I'm not looking to rub anyone's nose in anything.  My purpose for writing my post was to offer a perspective you maybe hadn't considered.  Or maybe you had considered it and you simply don't agree (which is fine). 

And let me be perfectly frank and clear: I so, so, soooo much appreciate that you care enough to offer your perspective. Nobody has all the answers here. We need people to bounce ideas off of, and part of the reason I expose myself to the potential scorn, contempt, and mockery (and you've seen some of it here) is because there are people like you who are intelligent enough and willing to offer a different perspective, in a calm, rational way, to perhaps consider things that neither party had considered, or even to articulate and reinforce good positions and opinions. There are a lot of people who would love to seriously discuss these issues with like-minded people, but the troll crowd makes it so difficult, they just decide it's not worth it, and we get endless pages of " +1 " or memes or dumb jokes. I wish the troll crowd was better controlled, but that's the way it is.

It's an effing risk, putting yourself out there. There are always people with bad motives, looking for anything they can latch onto to take someone they don't like down a peg or ten, if they think they can.

In this case, I had considered it and don't agree, but that doesn't mean there isn't something I can't learn...and in the process, others too...only fools think they know everything. And if we don't agree, at least we got to hear each other's perspectives and motives and reasoning. So, without blowing too much smoke up your arse, I thank you.

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus
Superman Secret Code: sremmiJ!

[RockMyAmadeus]

18 minutes ago, Poka said:

If a buyer has any concerns I would much rather prefer that buyer gets back to me with all issues in one go rather than on a piecemail basis. 

 

Yeah, that's on me. You're completely right, I should have taken the time to carefully go through everything, instead of just looking at the BP #1s. Unfortunately, I knew that onsite grading at C2E2 was imminent, and I was really looking forward to getting these slabbed and making some money, while the movie hype was still on.

My fault.

Edited April 24, 2018 by RockMyAmadeus

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

No hard feelings RMA it's just it was about to escalate with no real winner and then everyone would be pointing fingers. No you haven't offended me, I hope nor I you. Just a lot of thought have been put into your responses and people tried to simplify. I don't want to read things that are not there, and it seems it is the waiting game anyway to see if the seller follows through. I do hope this works out and am glad the seller was listening, I just hope that he is able.  @RockMyAmadeus

I appreciate that. Thanks.

[kav]

As far as the Black panthers go I have to agree with RMA on that one.

[ADAMANTIUM]

18 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Yeah, that's on me. You're completely right, I should have taken the time to carefully go through everything, instead of just looking at the BP #1s. Unfortunately, I knew that onsite grading at C2E2 was imminent, and I was really looking forward to getting these slabbed and making some money. 

My fault.

Did you get them pressed at onsite grading? Just curious if that was possible...

I hope fan expo Dallas gets big enough for onsite grading...

[mattn792]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Did you get them pressed at onsite grading? Just curious if that was possible...

I hope fan expo Dallas gets big enough for onsite grading...

No on site pressing at C2E2

[RockMyAmadeus]

4 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Did you get them pressed at onsite grading? Just curious if that was possible...

I hope fan expo Dallas gets big enough for onsite grading...

No, I pressed them myself. Onsite pressing isn't the wisest idea. Books can have an unsettling tendency to "revert" if not done properly...quality, not speed, is the goal. That's why the press-n'-dash sweatshops are such a bad idea.

[ADAMANTIUM]

4 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

No, I pressed them myself. Onsite pressing isn't the wisest idea. Books can have an unsettling tendency to "revert" if not done properly...quality, not speed, is the goal. That's why the press-n'-dash sweatshops are such a bad idea.

Good to know. Thanks

 

[Poka]

Ok - just had this newb who I am just going to keep anonymous.

buys a Marvel Tales 98 9.6 which is a homage ASM 121. 1 hr later 

“please cancel my order. I see now that this is a reprint and not the item I believed I was ordering. Do not ship me this item and please refund my money  as soon as possible”

ok so you thought you bought an ASM 121 9.6 for 1/16 of the market price and even made an offer rather than buying the bin?

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Poka
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