Comic Book Investing

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'm not saying that stock investors should feel responsible ...psychologically or otherwise... for decisions they're not directly involved with, but my point is simply this: comic collecting/investment harms no one while providing profit.

 

Sure it does...it harms the people from whom you obtained those comics, robbing them of the ability to profit from their comics themselves...

 

 

 

That's a bit of a stretch, RMA. These are people that chose instant gratification versus future ROI. "Robbed" is also pretty strong wording. Unless you hit them over the head with a sack of nickels and left with all their comics they almost certainly received something in return. Maybe that something got them out of a hole, put their kids through school, bought them a winning lottery ticket; etc. And, yes, you could also make that argument for literally anything that has ever increased in value over time.

 

I'm not sure you know what " " means.

[MutantKeys]

Since we have a few dummies here...

 

 

 

[HighStakesComics]

I'm not saying that stock investors should feel responsible ...psychologically or otherwise... for decisions they're not directly involved with, but my point is simply this: comic collecting/investment harms no one while providing profit.

 

Sure it does...it harms the people from whom you obtained those comics, robbing them of the ability to profit from their comics themselves...

 

 

 

That's a bit of a stretch, RMA. These are people that chose instant gratification versus future ROI. "Robbed" is also pretty strong wording. Unless you hit them over the head with a sack of nickels and left with all their comics they almost certainly received something in return. Maybe that something got them out of a hole, put their kids through school, bought them a winning lottery ticket; etc. And, yes, you could also make that argument for literally anything that has ever increased in value over time.

 

I'm not sure you know what " " means.

 

Apparently not at 4 AM at least. I got up to take a leak and couldn't resist checking the boards. They are like cocaine except legal, less expensive, and less socially acceptable. I apologize for the unnecessary ball bustin, RMA.

[HighStakesComics]

Since we have a few dummies here...

 

 

 

 

Wow, Mutantkeys. Thanks for the enlightenment. Now I might actually start making money at this. You are the man!!!

 

 

[Junkdrawer]

Ok how is this point. One guy collected silver dimes and has acquired them at actually 10 cents each at time of issue. Today his dimes have a silver value of $1.52

Another guy collected 10 cent comic books and has acquired them at actually 10 cents each at time of issue. Today his comics have a value higher or lower than the dimes?

 

Sure we can make cases for both, but bottom line is that the comic book guys have out performed the coinees across the board.

[namisgr]

But the great financial booms in comic collecting have come and gone. Buying comics off the rack from the thirties to the seventies yielded fantastic returns for the hobbyist fortunate enough to have saved their collections with care. Buying GA and early SA books in the sixties or seventies yielded fantastic returns. Owning high grade gold, silver, and key bronze before the advent of CGC in 2000 yielded fantastic returns. Those boom times are gone, and going forward opportunities for multi-bagger returns on comics as investments will be much fewer and farther between.

 

As for the claim that stock investing doesn't do anything for the soul, but just enriches greedy executives, well that's just not so. Investment in publicly traded companies provides working capital needed to develop new products and advance them to market. It also provides the opportunity for non-employees to build wealth. There's a slew of great companies that make products and provide services that enrich our lives and improve our well being, and are worthwhile and deeply satisfying companies to support financially through investment.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Yep, he had me up until Rom.

Rom now bought by Hasbro.

Ties into Transformers.

ROM TRANSFORMERS HASBRO

 

Like MR.BEDROCK says one must think outside of the box and go against the grain. (thumbs u

[delekkerste]

Without doubt your argument for stock investment has merit, and as part of a diverse portfolio I'd never argue against it on principle alone. However, the intrinsic value of corporate stock certificates only provide one kind of wealth, the kind that does virtually nothing for the heart, mind and spirit of a collector.

 

In essence, stock speculators become silent partners to a system that works tirelessly to defeat the aspirations of those employed by those companies to whom they claim partial ownership of assets. The stock investor essentially profits off the labors of others, one of many invisible faces seeking dividends while executive boards downsize jobs, cut benefits, move businesses overseas and take food from children's mouths.

 

I'm not saying that stock investors should feel responsible ...psychologically or otherwise... for decisions they're not directly involved with, but my point is simply this: comic collecting/investment harms no one while providing profit.

 

From my POV, this really comes down to personal choices in how one spends time and capital more than how much can be made on the backend. While I yield to your expertise in the area of stock investment producing wealth and would never criticize anyone for choosing to diversify in that direction, I cannot in good conscience recommend the intrinsic coldness of stock investment over the tangible enjoyment of comics. My

 

I think this kind of thinking is absolutely toxic. By this rationale, one would not want to own *any* stocks (after all, you can't be just a little bit pregnant or just a little bit of a capitalistic labor exploiter), thus removing one of the greatest engines of wealth creation that is available to normal people. Yes, normal people (see below). Never mind that companies need stocks and the capital markets to finance their business activities, facilitate mergers & acquisitions, incentivize their employees, allow owners to monetize their holdings, glean information/feedback from the collective wisdom of the market, allow for a more diversified ownership base and facilitate management succession and business continuity, etc. - it's not like stocks don't actually provide numerous legitimate functions that companies depend on.

 

My parents came to this country with less than $100 in their pockets (all the Korean government would let them take out of the country at the time) in 1968. They never made more than an upper middle-class income (certainly not as much as some of the people crying poverty in this thread!) And yet they are now retired and have a very nice nest egg because they lived modestly and invested in stocks and real estate. They stuck with a long-term investment plan in productive assets, which overcame numerous hiccups along the way. They got hammered in the Crash of '87. They bought property near the top of the market in the late '80s in California, right before the defense industry imploded and real estate went into a multi-year flush. They got hammered in the dot-com bust and again in the stock and real estate bust in the late 2000s.

 

But, they kept at it, buying more on dips, and never abandoned their long-term plan (sure, there were bouts of panic, and they ended up selling their tech bust stocks at a huge loss, but they never abandoned the overall strategy). Don't anybody tell me that the average Joe can't make serious money through a disciplined, long-term investment program in productive assets. I'm not saying that people shouldn't invest in comics if they think they truly have an edge, but I do think it's madness for people to forsake all traditional, productive investments that either generate income or have the potential to do so, whether for ideological reasons or other damaging rationalizations.

[delekkerste]

As for the claim that stock investing doesn't do anything for the soul, but just enriches greedy executives, well that's patently ridiculous. Investment in publicly traded companies provides working capital needed to develop new products and advance them to market. It also provides the opportunity for building wealth for non-employees. There's a slew of great companies that make products and provide services that enrich our lives and improve our well being, and are worthwhile and deeply satisfying companies to support financially through investment.

 

At last, the voice of reason has arrived.

[the blob]

with that said i have stuff from the 50s that has better page color than books bagged and boarded in the 90s. go figure.

 

Not better than my X-Force # 1's and my Youngblood # 1's. I have multiple copies of each and will be super rich when I decide to finally sell them. Also Spawn # 1. Didn't see that coming, didja?

If Spawn # 1 was bought at cover price or less then you at least doubled your value.

Spawn # 1 even with it million plus print run sells for over cover.

This is without a new movie which will eventually jumpstart Spawn again.

So I am bullish on Spawn # 1.

 

 

with my own eyes i saw a raw copy sell for $10 at NYCC show (it could have been $20, but since i'm not 100% sure I'll stick with $10). they sell a lor better when todd is at a show signing books i suppose.

[the blob]

with that said i have stuff from the 50s that has better page color than books bagged and boarded in the 90s. go figure.

 

Not better than my X-Force # 1's and my Youngblood # 1's. I have multiple copies of each and will be super rich when I decide to finally sell them. Also Spawn # 1. Didn't see that coming, didja?

If Spawn # 1 was bought at cover price or less then you at least doubled your value.

Spawn # 1 even with it million plus print run sells for over cover.

This is without a new movie which will eventually jumpstart Spawn again.

So I am bullish on Spawn # 1.

 

So does that mean Walking Dead #100, arguably the biggest key since #19, can appreciate with its 400,000 issue run?

 

Don't some of the covers do ok? (Not talking about the fancy variants) The michone cover I think sells for $3-$5 on any given day. Not exactly an investment, true. My LCS puts 100 out on the racks in a bag and board with a $5 sticker on it and it sells to someone every week.

 

That is a comic shop comic. It'll sell for $3-$5 a pop so long as there is interest in the show. Not briskly, but to non-comic collectors wandering into the shop, etc.

[lizards2]

As for the claim that stock investing doesn't do anything for the soul, but just enriches greedy executives, well that's patently ridiculous. Investment in publicly traded companies provides working capital needed to develop new products and advance them to market. It also provides the opportunity for building wealth for non-employees. There's a slew of great companies that make products and provide services that enrich our lives and improve our well being, and are worthwhile and deeply satisfying companies to support financially through investment.

 

At last, the voice of reason has arrived.

I think that it is peculiar, foreign thought from those who like to criticize the U.S. for almost everything, for whatever their underlying reasons may be.

[DR.X]

The stock investor essentially profits off the labors of others, one of many invisible faces seeking dividends while executive boards downsize jobs, cut benefits, move businesses overseas and take food from children's mouths.

 

 

Sorry Dave, but this statement is just ridiculous.

[the blob]

if we're talking 10, 20, 30 years or more out, I think the real sustainable books...those truly InvestmentGradeKeyComcs are in relatively short supply and reflect characters that draw all geographies, ethnicities etc,

 

I think you are grossly overestimating the appeal of vintage American comics outside of a certain age group of people living in North America and parts of Western Europe. I mean, sure, the movies (dubbed or subtitled) translate across to worldwide audiences, but where is the impetus for the rest of the world to want to own the actual comic books when it's not part of their language, culture or personal history/experience?

 

Gene, I'm not sure what the disposable income percentage is in the US for the last year, but I'd guess somewhere around 3-4%?

 

So let's say you are in a position in life where your DI is around 10%. You've got a good handle on your hedges, 401K, diversified stock portfolio, some precious metals, cash on hand, equity in your home and business. I'd say you are tracking very well to a comfortable retirement.

 

So, if this person chooses to use most, or all, of their 10% DI on choice comic books instead of trips, dining out, or depreciating assets like cars and boats, then comics is a fun and potentially much better use of the DI. Even breaking even is better than you will do with any of the other typical usages. Even a 50% loss, is better than most. But for those who buy what they love, that also turns a 20-50% profit, or better, each time. It has turned DI into an investment that paid dividends.

 

I like, and employ, that strategy

 

That's the thing. From mid-1996 - mid-2000 I was a well paid young professional working 70-80 hours a week. While I took some time off, I free loaded off family/friend vacation homes and what not and spent little money. Heck, until I started dating my wife I didn't even spend much on dating as I worked till 10/11 every night and it was mostly "I'll pick up some sushi/chinese/indian and come over" type "dates" (yes, i was a krappy BF). I went on one "outside" vacation in those 4 years, a week of golf camp in Florida, and I tried to do it on the cheap. Unlike now where we do a family vacation (or a couple of small ones) that wind up putting me $3-$5K in the hole every year. Sure, not everyone is a well paid single 20/30something professional, but they have plenty of extra income.

[Jaydogrules]

Without doubt your argument for stock investment has merit, and as part of a diverse portfolio I'd never argue against it on principle alone. However, the intrinsic value of corporate stock certificates only provide one kind of wealth, the kind that does virtually nothing for the heart, mind and spirit of a collector.

 

In essence, stock speculators become silent partners to a system that works tirelessly to defeat the aspirations of those employed by those companies to whom they claim partial ownership of assets. The stock investor essentially profits off the labors of others, one of many invisible faces seeking dividends while executive boards downsize jobs, cut benefits, move businesses overseas and take food from children's mouths.

 

I'm not saying that stock investors should feel responsible ...psychologically or otherwise... for decisions they're not directly involved with, but my point is simply this: comic collecting/investment harms no one while providing profit.

 

From my POV, this really comes down to personal choices in how one spends time and capital more than how much can be made on the backend. While I yield to your expertise in the area of stock investment producing wealth and would never criticize anyone for choosing to diversify in that direction, I cannot in good conscience recommend the intrinsic coldness of stock investment over the tangible enjoyment of comics. My

 

I think this kind of thinking is absolutely toxic. By this rationale, one would not want to own *any* stocks (after all, you can't be just a little bit pregnant or just a little bit of a capitalistic labor exploiter), thus removing one of the greatest engines of wealth creation that is available to normal people. Yes, normal people (see below). Never mind that companies need stocks and the capital markets to finance their business activities, facilitate mergers & acquisitions, incentivize their employees, allow owners to monetize their holdings, glean information/feedback from the collective wisdom of the market, allow for a more diversified ownership base and facilitate management succession and business continuity, etc. - it's not like stocks don't actually provide numerous legitimate functions that companies depend on.

 

My parents came to this country with less than $100 in their pockets (all the Korean government would let them take out of the country at the time) in 1968. They never made more than an upper middle-class income (certainly not as much as some of the people crying poverty in this thread!) And yet they are now retired and have a very nice nest egg because they lived modestly and invested in stocks and real estate. They stuck with a long-term investment plan in productive assets, which overcame numerous hiccups along the way. They got hammered in the Crash of '87. They bought property near the top of the market in the late '80s in California, right before the defense industry imploded and real estate went into a multi-year flush. They got hammered in the dot-com bust and again in the stock and real estate bust in the late 2000s.

 

But, they kept at it, buying more on dips, and never abandoned their long-term plan (sure, there were bouts of panic, and they ended up selling their tech bust stocks at a huge loss, but they never abandoned the overall strategy). Don't anybody tell me that the average Joe can't make serious money through a disciplined, long-term investment program in productive assets. I'm not saying that people shouldn't invest in comics if they think they truly have an edge, but I do think it's madness for people to forsake all traditional, productive investments that either generate income or have the potential to do so, whether for ideological reasons or other damaging rationalizations.

 

Stocks do NOT have intrinsic value. It is common knowledge that they are in fact the polar opposite of an investment vehicle that has intrinsic value. Real estate, bullion/jewelry, classic cars, art and yes comic books have intrinsic value. Enron stock certificates become worthless, you ball them up and throw it in the trash. That guy who paid 20k for a hulk 181 in a 9.8 takes a bath on his investment but still owns the first (full) appearance of wolverine that he can hold in his hand and read and enjoy anytime he wants at its original purpose, regardless of whether or not the value of it has diminished. And oh yeah, he could still sell it for around 10k even now if he so wished.

 

-J.

[Junkdrawer]

I like to take my bath with my IH181. I've grown out of the rubber ducky stage.

[delekkerste]

Stocks do NOT have intrinsic value. It is common knowledge that they are in fact the polar opposite of an investment vehicle that has intrinsic value. Real estate, bullion/jewelry, classic cars, art and yes comic books have intrinsic value. Enron stock certificates become worthless, you ball them up and throw it in the trash. That guy who paid 20k for a hulk 181 in a 9.8 takes a bath on his investment but still owns the first (full) appearance of wolverine that he can hold in his hand and read and enjoy anytime he wants at its original purpose, regardless of whether or not the value of it has diminished. And oh yeah, he could still sell it for around 10k even now if he so wished.

 

-J.

 

I'm sorry, but this is 100% wrong. You are confusing "intrinsic value" with "tangibility".

 

Investopedia Definition of Intrinsic Value

 

Dictionary definition of intrinsic value

 

A Hulk #181 9.8 is a tangible asset. Its intrinsic value is minimal, maybe a few bucks as something to read. The rest of the item's worth is extrinsic value - the portion of the item's worth that is derived from external factors (e.g., the market's perception of its rarity and desirability) as opposed to its inherent value as a comic book magazine (again, not much more than a few bucks). The intrinsic value of a rare gold coin is its bullion content. The rest of the coin's value is extrinsic value based on the market's perception of its rarity and desirability.

 

Again, intrinsic value is a completely different concept than whether something is a tangible or intangible asset.

 

Thus endeth the lesson.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Also RMA`s mantra for 20+ years

"Once hot, now not" is a good one.

Properties that I would expect to take off again. Pop culture that ruled a generation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[namisgr]

You mean all those Charizard holofoil cards we bought for my son aren't the solution for putting him through college?

[Mike's Rack]

It's "Once hot, hot again" You can never really prove it wrong, but it has surprising merit. It's a rule of thumb but you still have to watch the trends. I still can't believe I just sold a Transformers #8 cgc 9.6 for $175 last weekend. If you watch the trends you'll see things heating up that were hot before.