Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[Bronty]

4 hours ago, jason4 said:

Yea same thing with albedo 2. Respect for that book because it is EXPENSIVE . But me personally and I’d wager most people who are into comics wouldn’t pay 5 dollars to have it in their collection unless obviously for resale. 

I watched ninja turtles in the late 80s early 90s as a kid and I wasn’t impressed by him even as a kid...a ninja bunny? Maybe I missed something ?

Its basically Lone Wolf and Cub.   Only anthropomorphic.

[Schmakt]

The (to my knowledge) authenticity in representation of the culture combined with Stan's long and impressive resume plus the consistency of work and character along with the unique visual representation make, in my opinion, a strong case for at least respecting the work... plus I just find the stories incredibly fun and engaging, so I love Usagi and feel super lucky to have SS still churning out nearly monthly tales. Tails?

Most of that, however, could also probably be said for Sim and Cerebus... and I never liked that book.

But I'd still rather have a Cerebus 1 than IH181...

[october]

5 hours ago, jason4 said:

Yea same thing with albedo 2. Respect for that book because it is EXPENSIVE . But me personally and I’d wager most people who are into comics wouldn’t pay 5 dollars to have it in their collection unless obviously for resale. 

I watched ninja turtles in the late 80s early 90s as a kid and I wasn’t impressed by him even as a kid...a ninja bunny? Maybe I missed something ?

I take it you haven't read Usagi, so yes, you missed something.

[jason4]

12 hours ago, october said:

I take it you haven't read Usagi, so yes, you missed something.

Correct. I typically read only marvel and a little Batman. used to read walking dead and I did read ninja turtles 1. Never saw the appeal of Yojimbo or Cerebus but not trying to hate on them. A lot of people like “my little pony” but I’ll never read that either. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by jason4

[seanfingh]

22 hours ago, jason4 said:

Yea same thing with albedo 2. Respect for that book because it is EXPENSIVE . But me personally and I’d wager most people who are into comics wouldn’t pay 5 dollars to have it in their collection unless obviously for resale. 

I watched ninja turtles in the late 80s early 90s as a kid and I wasn’t impressed by him even as a kid...a ninja bunny? Maybe I missed something ?

There is nothing wrong with this attitude.  I had it when I was early into collecting. I had no use for any books that were printed before about 1961.  There are other considerations for collecting books like Cerebus and Albedo than how you feel about those characters. Both have significant historical impact. And even though the market for those books is microscopic compared to IH 181, the supply is also microscopic so ultra high grade copies bring the tall coin, even though the vast majority of collectors just scratch their collective heads.

[I am not Glenda]

On 8/20/2014 at 10:50 AM, Jaydogrules said:

 

I didn't say the book was "worthless", something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. But at the same time, this book is a good example (largely because of overstreet) of one with an ingrained, institutional "value" that has far exceeded its actual significance and impact on the hobby and pop culture.

 

-J.

1

100% off on Cerebus first the book is very historic and has had a huge impact on many of the mainstream & independent books being published today. So if I understand your thinking it's less important & valuable because you don't think its impact was significant & isn't as popular as Wolverine? However, the historical facts just don't confirm that statement. The truth is when looked at as a purely original concept Cerebus & Dave Sim are among one of the most important characters creator-owned books of the Bronze age or any age. Having grown up with the fuzzy guy I can not emphasize enough how important this book was/is to our hobby & when taken into the context of the era that it was SELF-published it's simply an amazing achievement. I mean think about this it was a 300 issue independent comic that was published from 1977 - 2004 & at its peak was selling 36k copies an issue! If there was a Comic Hall Of Fame the badass Aardvark would have his place right next to the man with the claws.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Frank Mozz

[ComicConnoisseur]

In the last month of sales on eBay

Hulk #181 over one hundred copies sold.

Cerebus #1  had three copies sold.

[ComicConnoisseur]

ASM #300 had over 200 copies sold in the last month on eBay.

Albedo #2  had 1 copy sold.

 

Cerebus #1 and Albedo #2 are great comic books, but trying to compare them to Hulk #181 and ASM #300 is like trying to compare 

Detective Comics #1 to Detective Comics #27.

One group is a special niche, while the other group are much sought after iconic first appearances of major pop culture characters.

 

[I am not Glenda]

On 2/17/2019 at 12:20 PM, ComicConnoisseur said:

ASM #300 had over 200 copies sold in the last month on eBay.

Albedo #2  had 1 copy sold.

 

Cerebus #1 and Albedo #2 are great comic books, but trying to compare them to Hulk #181 and ASM #300 is like trying to compare 

Detective Comics #1 to Detective Comics #27.

One group is a special niche, while the other group are much sought after iconic first appearances of major pop culture characters.

 

100% correct its a niche market with a limited number of interested buyers & also just as important a limited number of high-grade copies existing thus the reason Cerebus #1 is currently listed in OSPG where it is. Which I think was the initial topic & discussion of this post? However, that has nothing to do with the historical importance, influence & impact of the book. Meaning I think right now most people would agree Hulk 181 looks to be the top key book of the Bronze age that doesn't mean the character ie Wolverine ( whom I love) is even close to being as groundbreaking as Cerebus was to the industry & thus the reason for continued interest in a low print run self-published Canadian comic book about an aardvark with a sword ( I mean 99.9% of the once HOT independent books are not worth the paper they were printed on  today) So In my opinion, when taken into the context of when and how the book was published & the evolution of the book creatively its a very important part of comic history just like Detective 1 is not 27 it is still a very significant book  to our hobby. Side note just think about this Dave was selling apx 30/35k books a month at one point with much of the content being political & religious story arcs! Now that's some Mad Max sh# right there!

Edited February 19, 2019 by Frank Mozz

[WolverineX]

12 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

ASM #300 had over 200 copies sold in the last month on eBay.

Albedo #2  had 1 copy sold.

 

Cerebus #1 and Albedo #2 are great comic books, but trying to compare them to Hulk #181 and ASM #300 is like trying to compare 

Detective Comics #1 to Detective Comics #27.

One group is a special niche, while the other group are much sought after iconic first appearances of major pop culture characters.

 

Agreed.   Also Cerebus 1 is just so rare... 2000 copies... even lower than the first print TMNT 1 . 

[FlyingDonut]

On 2/17/2019 at 12:12 PM, ComicConnoisseur said:

In the last month of sales on eBay

Hulk #181 over one hundred copies sold.

Cerebus #1  had three copies sold.

I will buy you two Field Box (Boxes 9-16, 71-82) season tickets for the Boston Red Sox AND give you a Hulk 181 in 9.6 if you can find me a Cerebus 1 in 9.8.

You will not be sitting in these seats because you will not be able to find me one.

[MGsimba77]

You can fit everyone who's ever heard of Cerebus or Albedo or even Aardvark-Vanaheim comics into a phone booth with room for a king sized bed to spare

"niche market" may be overstating 

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 hours ago, FlyingDonut said:

I will buy you two Field Box (Boxes 9-16, 71-82) season tickets for the Boston Red Sox AND give you a Hulk 181 in 9.6 if you can find me a Cerebus 1 in 9.8.

You will not be sitting in these seats because you will not be able to find me one.

No, I'm pretty sure there isn't one to be found. Dave's copies, which he carefully set aside, topped out at 9.4. I think I can say with absolute certainty that no Cerebus #1 exists in actual or potential 9.8 quality. Just like there's no Showcase #22 in 9.8, or Showcase #4 in 9.8 or, FF #1 in 9.8, or All Star #8 in 9.8, or most of DC's output before 1962 in 9.8.

Which is kinda sad, all things considered, but there you have it. Quirks of history.

[RockMyAmadeus]

34 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

You can fit everyone who's ever heard of Cerebus or Albedo or even Aardvark-Vanaheim comics into a phone booth with room for a king sized bed to spare

"niche market" may be overstating 

Nah. Not quite as small as you think.

[october]

8 hours ago, MGsimba77 said:

You can fit everyone who's ever heard of Cerebus or Albedo or even Aardvark-Vanaheim comics into a phone booth with room for a king sized bed to spare

"niche market" may be overstating 

If that was true both books would be in the dollar bin. They aren't.

After a decade or two in the hobby (and a decade or two of dealing in the hobby) books like Cerebus 1 and Albedo 2 take on added significance as you start to appreciate comic history and the relative rarity of these issues in nice shape. The "big" Marvel and DC bronze or later keys, on the other hand, turn into widgets. Hulk 181, ASM 300 and NM 98 are about as exciting to me as a blocked toilet is to a plumber. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by october

[PeterPark]

Usagi was really cool as a ninja turtle fan. Albedo and Cerebus are just so rare, it's a stark contrast between top copper (and Cerebus in bronze) and earlier ages. Rarity drives the high end of the value books more than importance. The apparent importance of both books are grossly inflated because of this. Star Reach 1 is also very important but not this valuable. And then look at the gobbledygooks...was it a print run of 50 for each? Cerebus and Albedo are cool but the values are sky high because there are none out there. I think the Cerebus counterfeit had a higher run than the real thing... I like both books but I wouldn't trade my Hulk 181 for either or both. Of course grade matters so that's not really true but they're such apples and oranges because Hulk 181 is easily obtainable. I'd only really be interested in lower grade copies of Albedo or Cerebus but that would only be in the few hundred dollar range for me. Not really interested in anything over VG.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Anyone...quite literally...can buy 50 copies of Hulk #181 in a week. Say, you have a million dollars available, right now. You can have 50 copies of Hulk #181, in various grades, even a 9.8 or 5, in a week...maybe less. No need to pay silly prices; you just pay market prices, and you're good to go....with probably half a million or more to spare.

But it does not matter how much money you have...you probably cannot buy 50 copies of Cerebus #1 in ANY grade in a year. You would have to start offering stupid money for owners to give up their copies. And all the money in the world won't cough you up a 9.8, and probably not even a 9.6.

When you combine them with their history...Cerebus was a groundbreaker, and both books took part in the "B&W Explosion" of the mid-80s...both books were $100+ at the time Hulk #181 was $20...and you start to appreciate that appeal. Yes, Virginia, there really was a time when Cerebus #1 was the "it" book to own, and Hulk #181 was "who...?" The two most sought after back issues of 1985-1986? Cerebus #1 and TMNT #1. Hulk #181 wasn't even on the radar.

Plus, both series and characters have lasted for decades; something incredibly rare in non-Marvel, non-DC terms. 

And...as the cherry on top, they're both quite epic in scope and substance, quality reads that still hold up, 30-40 years later, and far, far exceed the quality of your typical DC and Marvel of any time frame. 

That's the appeal of these kinds of books.

[MGsimba77]

4 hours ago, october said:

If that was true both books would be in the dollar bin. They aren't.

After a decade or two in the hobby (and a decade or two of dealing in the hobby) books like Cerebus 1 and Albedo 2 take on added significance as you start to appreciate comic history and the relative rarity of these issues in nice shape. The "big" Marvel and DC bronze or later keys, on the other hand, turn into widgets. Hulk 181, ASM 300 and NM 98 are about as exciting to me as a blocked toilet is to a plumber. 

The only thing these books have going for them is rarity and nothing else! The creators had to be threatened with legal action due to their spoofing attempts of Marvel properties. "Red Sophia, Wolveroach, Moon roach"... Cmon.. Seriously??? What a joke! I don't know but just doesn't seem like a serious title or publishing company for that matter 

http://momentofcerebus.blogspot.com/2015/06/newswatch-marvel-threatens-aardvark.html?m=1

[Bird]

5 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

just doesn't seem like a serious title

The title hit 300 issues as a self-published comic, it was quite serious as an endeavor. Just because he was using parody to spoof the Marvel machine and the sword & sorcery genre before that does not mean that it was not a serious comic. Cerebus did a lot of things well.

[I am not Glenda]

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Anyone...quite literally...can buy 50 copies of Hulk #181 in a week. Say, you have a million dollars available, right now. You can have 50 copies of Hulk #181, in various grades, even a 9.8 or 5, in a week...maybe less. No need to pay silly prices; you just pay market prices, and you're good to go....with probably half a million or more to spare.

But it does not matter how much money you have...you probably cannot buy 50 copies of Cerebus #1 in ANY grade in a year. You would have to start offering stupid money for owners to give up their copies. And all the money in the world won't cough you up a 9.8, and probably not even a 9.6.

When you combine them with their history...Cerebus was a groundbreaker, and both books took part in the "B&W Explosion" of the mid-80s...both books were $100+ at the time Hulk #181 was $20...and you start to appreciate that appeal. Yes, Virginia, there really was a time when Cerebus #1 was the "it" book to own, and Hulk #181 was "who...?" The two most sought after back issues of 1985-1986? Cerebus #1 and TMNT #1. Hulk #181 wasn't even on the radar.

Plus, both series and characters have lasted for decades; something incredibly rare in non-Marvel, non-DC terms. 

And...as the cherry on top, they're both quite epic in scope and substance, quality reads that still hold up, 30-40 years later, and far, far exceed the quality of your typical DC and Marvel of any time frame. 

That's the appeal of these kinds of books.

You nailed it bro!