Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[I am not Glenda]

47 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I wouldn't call them ignorant. The character sold only 35,000 copies at it`s peak. In the end it wasn't even breaking 10,000 copies.

Seriously though the main reason it isn't remembered was it never made it to the big screen or had a regular tv series.

That`s why the majority of people had never heard of it.

Groot is more popular than Cerebus with the world.

Yes, I repeat Groot is more popular with the whole world than Cerebus. ha, ha, lol.

Cerebus reminds me of Walt Kelly`s Pogo.

A great important strip,but no one really tried to bring it to the mass audience with a regular tv show or movie. So now it is almost forgotten.

Pogo vs Calvin and Hobbs is like the Cerebus vs Wolverine question.

Now the good news is I would say Cerebus #1 is a huge sleeper because eventually Hollywood could get its hands on it. Either Dave Sim might give in or maybe his estate after death.

Dave Sim is the key.  Right now Dave Sim is pulling a Bill Watterson in that he doesn't want Hollywood touching his creation.

 

 

 

Like to throw in my 2 cents on these points......

Only 35,00 copies per issue during the 1980s. The list I just looked up put Cerebus at avg of # 70 of the 100 books per month being sold, Which imho pretty darn good for an independent self-published book.

Nope no movies 100% dead on but why????? that was never the vibe of this book or its creator as Dave was approved several times by DC & Marvel over the years to sell out the grey bunny and make a lot of $$$$$$ 

 Groot is more popular but as per the topic not as rare as a 9.4/9.8 Cerebus #1 thus the reason for the continued price increase & demand by some collectors to own a high copy of said Aardvark # 1

If you ever read Cerebus you would know he's no Pogo  ( nuff said)

The Book is not a sleeper among longtime comic collectors ( I understand where a new collector may have or maybe never will know the character) but the reason high-grade examples go for some real $$$  is because they never show up in any kind of high-grade condition, I would even bet there is no 9.8 copy that exists.

 Cerebus from day one was and always will be Dave's to do with what he will. Love him or hate him you have to respect that.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

48 minutes ago, Frank Mozz said:

If you ever read Cerebus you would know he's no Pogo  ( nuff said)

But my argument was Pogo is like Cerebus in that it is a important strip that hasn't translated into big popularity with modern audiences like Wolverine and Venom have.

btw Pogo is real cool. Acquired taste like Cerebus.

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by ComicConnoisseur

[ComicConnoisseur]

37 minutes ago, Frank Mozz said:

I would even bet there is no 9.8 copy that exists.

This than is the key and maybe if we are going to compare it to Hulk #181 we should compare it to a Hulk #181 CGC 9.9 or CGC 10.0 and not other grades of Hulk #181s?

So as it stands now Cerebus #1 CGC 9.8 is like mythical, as in right now no documented copies have been reported.

I got to admit this a interesting topic, and now I am much more interested in learning more about Cerebus #1 and Albedo #2.

[dupont2005]

I don’t care what comic gets a movie or what comic people who don’t read comics have heard of. I like what’s good. Cerberus is a good comic.

 

You May think Cerberus is going to drop in value, I think movie hyped comics will. I guess we’ll see

[ComicConnoisseur]

21 minutes ago, dupont2005 said:

I don’t care what comic gets a movie or what comic people who don’t read comics have heard of. I like what’s good. Cerberus is a good comic.

 

You May think Cerberus is going to drop in value, I think movie hyped comics will. I guess we’ll see

Yes, Cerebus is a good comic and no one is arguing that, but if Disney makes a new trilogy of Wolverine movies,than which comic book do you think will go up more in value these next 10 years

the Hulk #181 with Disney hyped juice behind it

or

a small collective group of comic book readers who still remember Cerebus being a top comic book read from the 1970s/80s?

Now Cerebus reminds me of Barks Duck comics.

Barks comics at one time were considered more valuable than Marvel Silver Age keys, but over time Marvel just kept getting more popular and popular by gaining new audiences,while the Barks audience aged out.

Barks are still popular but nowhere near as before because the audience aged.

We got to think most of the Cerebus audience who remember Cerebus have to be hitting 50 or older now, while Wolverine`s audience with Disney is much younger and gaining new fans everyday.

So I would suspect Hulk #181 hasn`t even hit it`s peak yet,while Cerebus will most likely stay stagnant at the same level of interest this decade.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by ComicConnoisseur

[Darkowl]

What page is the poll really on?

[dupont2005]

17 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Yes, Cerebus is a good comic and no one is arguing that, but if Disney makes a new trilogy of Wolverine movies,than which comic book do you think will go up more in value these next 10 years

the Hulk #181 with Disney hyped juice behind it

or

a small collective group of comic book readers who still remember Cerebus being a top comic book read from the 1970s/80s?

Now Cerebus reminds me of Barks Duck comics.

Barks comics at one time were considered more valuable than Marvel Silver Age keys, but over time Marvel just kept getting more popular and popular by gaining new audiences,while the Barks audience aged out.

Barks are still popular but nowhere near as before because the audience aged.

We got to think most of the Cerebus audience who remember Cerebus have to be hitting 50 or older now, while Wolverine`s audience with Disney is much younger and gaining new fans everyday.

So I would suspect Hulk #181 hasn`t even hit it`s peak yet,while Cerebus will most likely stay stagnant at the same level of interest this decade.

 

 

I feel like the super hero movies are going to burn out, and when they do the non comic readers who have a temporary interest in them will lose that interest. I think franchise movies in general, sequels and remakes, are going to fall out of style big time. I think you’ll see Netflix and Hulu releasing award winning original content on 30-50 million dollar budgets and theater ticket sales declining until somewhere someone loses a lot of money on a billion dollar 8th installment in a franchise and that will be the end of it for a good 20 years. I also think a lot of the hype for super hero keys is among a small group of collectors just flipping the same comics to each other over and over. I don’t think there’s a ton of people collecting silver and gold keys, or even copper and modern keys. I don’t think the market is that much larger than that of Cerberus. When Cerberus collectors die off, Spider-Man collectors die off too. Younger people don’t feel the same way about physical media that we do. They don’t collect records, they don’t collect first edition novels, and they don’t collect comics. They’re buying TPB’s and hardcovers or just reading digitally, both of which are growing markets in comics while the direct market monthly floppy is not. They’re also not just limiting themselves to American super hero comics, as non super hero genres, independent publishers, and international translated comics are FAR more popular now than they were 20 years ago. On top of that, collecting first appearances and key issues is pretty much uniquely a super hero collector thing. Oh, sure, some really popular comics like Walking Dead might fall into that because the super hero speculators have decided the first appearance of Michonne is worth more than the issue before and after her introduction, but it is unique among comics without capes. You can buy the first appearance of the Smurf’s for like $50 or less, many people here have done that just because of how shockingly cheap it is. A LOT of comic collectors simply don’t desire keys

[FlyingDonut]

4 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

How many people started to collect comic books because of Wolverine or Cerebus?

My money is on Wolverine getting more people hooked on comic books than Cerebus. That`s importance.

Ask Disney who they rather make a trilogy of movies about Wolverine or Cerebus?

I am 100 percent certain Disney would say Wolverine. That`s importance.

 

Cerebus #1 is a historical important book, but so is Fantasy Quarterly #1 the first Elfquest.

So I think a better showdown would be Cerebus #1 vs Fantasy Quarterly #1 the first Elfquest.

The battle of the independents.

Cerebus #1 and Hulk #181 are just two different beasts.

 

I will say though comparing Cerebus #1 to Incredible Hulk #181 is pretty smart because now people who have never heard of Cerebus are talking about Cerebus. That`s what I call great marketing. I know I will keep an eye out now in the Boston area for Cerebus #1 copies. 

Smart, savy move.

ha ha. lol. 

 

 

Again, have you read any of the posts in this thread?

We are talking solely about high grade copies. Again. You find me a 9.8 Cerebus 1, I will buy you two Boston Red Sox season tickets AND give you a 9.6 Hulk 1.

[FlyingDonut]

2 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Yes, Cerebus is a good comic and no one is arguing that, but if Disney makes a new trilogy of Wolverine movies,than which comic book do you think will go up more in value these next 10 years

the Hulk #181 with Disney hyped juice behind it

or

a small collective group of comic book readers who still remember Cerebus being a top comic book read from the 1970s/80s?

Now Cerebus reminds me of Barks Duck comics.

Barks comics at one time were considered more valuable than Marvel Silver Age keys, but over time Marvel just kept getting more popular and popular by gaining new audiences,while the Barks audience aged out.

Barks are still popular but nowhere near as before because the audience aged.

We got to think most of the Cerebus audience who remember Cerebus have to be hitting 50 or older now, while Wolverine`s audience with Disney is much younger and gaining new fans everyday.

So I would suspect Hulk #181 hasn`t even hit it`s peak yet,while Cerebus will most likely stay stagnant at the same level of interest this decade.

 

 

 a 9.8 Cerebus 1.

[MrBedrock]

A more apt comparison would be Pogo Possum vs. Roy Rogers

[ComicConnoisseur]

4 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

Again, have you read any of the posts in this thread?

We are talking solely about high grade copies. Again. You find me a 9.8 Cerebus 1, I will buy you two Boston Red Sox season tickets AND give you a 9.6 Hulk 1.

Deal.

If I ever find a Cerebus 9.8 in the Boston area you will be the first person I pm.

[MrBedrock]

Everybody knows who they are... but unfortunately nobody cares anymore.

 

[MGsimba77]

6 hours ago, WoWitHurts said:

Cerebus isn't as important as say wolverine but the comic is way more important to the industry than IH 181. Dave Sim's ability to launch and CONTINUE this series at a time when true independent books had a difficult time to find an audience and get into comic book stores. I have always been impressed with the Cerebus run. 

Of course I'm no fan but whatever anyone thinks of Cerebus and all their marvel parodies aside, what they were able to pull off being a small time independent publisher commands respect 

Its alot to put aside but still...They sold alot of books with the odds stacked against them!

Edited February 21, 2019 by MGsimba77

[MGsimba77]

Genuinely curious what a hypothetical 9.8 or 9.9 Cerebus 1 would fetch compared to what the single 9.9 IH 181 would in today's market

I think that's a more fair comparison because the census would be the same

[Lazyboy]

18 hours ago, Darkowl said:

I have absolutely no idea who Cerebus is, and I'd like to think that I'm well versed in pop/comic culture.

Well, now you (should) know better.

10 hours ago, Darkowl said:

H181 has single handedly brought in thousands upon thousands of readers, and collectors over the years, truly magnifying and expanding the popularity of comic book culture to a perpetual degree.

 The book, not the character. It's not a particularly difficult concept.

Though it would be interesting if we could know how many people picked up their first comic because of their prior familiarity with Wolverine. I suspect the number would be a lot smaller than you think.

[lou_fine]

On 2/18/2019 at 11:24 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

No, I'm pretty sure there isn't one to be found. Dave's copies, which he carefully set aside, topped out at 9.4. I think I can say with absolute certainty that no Cerebus #1 exists in actual or potential 9.8 quality.

+1

Especially since the story is that Dave went through the entire 2,000 print run so that he could personally cherry picked the best copies for himself.

It must have been a quite upsetting to Dave that the entire print run (save a few copies) had those nasty looking spine ticks running down the cover as the book was apparently poorly printed and bound together.  The LCS owner which I knew at the time stated that every single one of the Cerebus #1's which he got into the store had the spine ticks on them.  

Not sure why CGC slams these production spine ticks so hard when they are present on almost every single copy of the book, and yet give the horrid looking Marvel chipping a pass when a substantially lower percentage of the early Marvel books had this chipping problem.  

[Darkowl]

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

Well, now you (should) know better.

 The book, not the character. It's not a particularly difficult concept.

Though it would be interesting if we could know how many people picked up their first comic because of their prior familiarity with Wolverine. I suspect the number would be a lot smaller than you think.

No, no. I get it. You're just misunderstanding me. I'm simply explaining WHY these two books are important, and most certainly NOT comparing the popularity of the characters. 

Certain comics are important for certain reasons. The books we're discussing have their own unique reasons for their significance. I think in this particular case, it's not really even practical to compare the two, especially because the reason behind their importance is so different. It would be like saying that the letter B is more important than the letter C. 

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Darkowl

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 hours ago, MGsimba77 said:

Genuinely curious what a hypothetical 9.8 or 9.9 Cerebus 1 would fetch compared to what the single 9.9 IH 181 would in today's market

I think that's a more fair comparison because the census would be the same

This is where a knowledge of the history of these things comes in handy. Hulk #181 was produced by a company, World Color in Sparta, which had perfected making comics decades before.  Hulk #181 is just as common, if not more so, in ultra high grade as most other books of the era. And it was printed to the tune of 300,000 or more copies, with about 200k "sold."

On top of that, the book was part of the quasi-illegal Mile High 2 warehouse find, with dozens, if not hundreds, of absolutely uncirculated copies of that book and many others from distributors who had reported them unsold and destroyed. That's on top of the 200,000 or so reported sold.

But Cerebus #1 was printed locally, in Kitchener, Ontario, by a newspaper printer called Fairway Press, to the tune of 2,000 copies, total. 

And the quality was terrible. Right from the start.

So, it's not a fair comparison. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by RockMyAmadeus
Gott damn typos.

[waaaghboss]

4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

This is where a knowledge of the history of these things comes in handy. Hulk #181 was produced by a company, World Color in Sparta, which had perfected making comics decades before.  Hulk #181 is just as common, if not more so, in ultra high grade as most other books of the era. And it was printed to the tune of 300,000 or more copies, with about 200k "sold."

On top of that, the book was part of the quasi-illegal Mile High 2 warehouse find, with dozens, if not hundreds, of absolutely uncirculated copies of that book and many others from distributors who had reported them unsold and destroyed. That's on top of the 200,000 or so reported sold.

But Cerebus #1 was printed locally, in Kitchener, Ontario, by a newspaper printer called Fairway Press, to the tune of 2,000 copies, total. 

And the quality was terrible. Right from the start.

So, it's not a fair comparison. 

Reading this topic about Cerebus 1 being independent, old, rare, etc, makes me wonder...

Why isnt Fantasy Quarterly 1, which was printed a few months later, in bad quality, and starting a massive franchise, worth a lot, lot more?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just now, waaaghboss said:

Reading this topic about Cerebus 1 being independent, old, rare, etc, makes me wonder...

Why isnt Fantasy Quarterly 1, which was printed a few months later, in bad quality, and starting a massive franchise, worth a lot, lot more?

FQ #1 was 1. printed in slightly higher numbers...I believe, 2. printed with higher quality (yes, as disappointed as they were with it, it was still much higher quality than Cerebus #1...as the 57 9.8s on the census attest), 3. Elfquest, while quite the independent powerhouse, was never the 800 lb gorilla that Cerebus was, mainly due to the personality of Dave Sim.

And, perhaps most importantly: it's not Elfquest #1.

That fact is substantial.