1st Teen Titans 3 3

[HighStakesComics]

FWIW, here my $.02. I believe a strong case can be made for the #60. Here's why:

 

1. The Title-Whereas 54 appears to be a Brave and the Bold featuring an an Aqualad, Kid Flash & Robin team-up, 60 clearly defines on the FC that these are indeed the Teen Titans.

 

2. First Point of Reference-As two previous posters mentioned there is no reference made within 54 declaring these are the "Teen Titans" until the Batman/Robin dialogue in issue 60. While 54 can be considered the first team-up, there is nothing articulated to the reader pertaining to a "team" in perpetuity.

 

3. The Inclusion of Wonder-Girl-Making her first appearance in 60, the addition of Wonder Girl as a founding member constitutes the formation of the original team. Prior to her debut, there was never any reference to the Teen Titans, therefore it would be hard to argue that the team existed prior to 60.

[gino2paulus2]

I'm pretty pleased with my copy of of #60

 

[whetteon]

60 is definitely nice to have but 54 is the key.

 

 

But I bought both because 60 seemed so darn important too.

Edited October 14, 2014 by whetteon

[whetteon]

 

I'll have to get a scan of my raw 60 copy later...

[HighStakesComics]

That's a real nice 7.0 and you have to respect the WP. I'm seeing some beautiful books, but no one seems to be debating the merits of #54

[Jaylam]

FWIW, here my $.02. I believe a strong case can be made for the #60. Here's why:

 

1. The Title-Whereas 54 appears to be a Brave and the Bold featuring an an Aqualad, Kid Flash & Robin team-up, 60 clearly defines on the FC that these are indeed the Teen Titans.

 

2. First Point of Reference-As two previous posters mentioned there is no reference made within 54 declaring these are the "Teen Titans" until the Batman/Robin dialogue in issue 60. While 54 can be considered the first team-up, there is nothing articulated to the reader pertaining to a "team" in perpetuity.

 

3. The Inclusion of Wonder-Girl-Making her first appearance in 60, the addition of Wonder Girl as a founding member constitutes the formation of the original team. Prior to her debut, there was never any reference to the Teen Titans, therefore it would be hard to argue that the team existed prior to 60.

 

Let's go back a little more. When were the 1st appearances of each of the individual members?

Robin first appeared in Detective Comics #38,

Kid Flash in Flash #110,

Aqualad in Adventure Comics #269, (that was news to me until I just looked it up).

 

.....but, I'm a little confused about Wonder Girl; her 1st appearance is listed as in B&B #60, but she was in Wonder Woman in several issues before that, so what's the story here? Is that Wonder Girl in the Wonder Woman comics not the same??

[HighStakesComics]

The label says "New Wonder Girl-Donna Troy". I'm guessing this is a different Wonder Girl than the one whom originally appeared in the WW run.

[Silverdream]

60 is definitely nice to have but 54 is the key.

 

I just don't get this.

 

I understand that 54 has been considered the " Key" for decades, but seriously... Its nearly identical to the Defenders situation.

 

How can it go both ways?

 

Enlighten me please, I just don't get it.

 

Also, I doubt CGC would ever change how they label the books, unless there was a mass shift to BB60. Too many long time collectors and dealers holding 54 imo, would upset a lot of " important people"

[HighStakesComics]

How can it be the first appearance of the Teen Titans if it never acknowledges that the Teen Titans are even appearing?

[Silver]

I happen to agree that 60 is the first Teen Titans and 54 is a tryout of sorts, but good luck getting OS or CGC to officially declare it.

 

But if I didn't have either, 60 would be he book I went after...

[TeddieMercede]

Only explanation is because people have copies of 54 and/or have some money invested in it. It's a great book and really does have a fun story like Silver said but it just isn't the first appearance of the Teen Titans.

[TeddieMercede]

The label says "New Wonder Girl-Donna Troy". I'm guessing this is a different Wonder Girl than the one whom originally appeared in the WW run.

 

The original Wonder Girl was stories of Wonder Woman as a child.

[Silver]

Let the games begin!

[AGGIEZ]

How can it be the first appearance of the Teen Titans if it never acknowledges that the Teen Titans are even appearing?

 

Question: What's the 1st appearance of Ant-Man?

 

 

The only thing consistent in this hobby is its inconsistency…

 

 

[rjpb]

 

Question: What's the 1st appearance of Ant-Man?

 

 

 

 

Mystic #57

[HighStakesComics]

You make a valid point, sir, but the Titans are a team that began with 4 members, and each of them first appeared separately from the others. The first issue they appear together is the first appearance by definition.

I don't want to wake my kid up by going to my office and use the scanner, but I believe the splash page of #60 leaves no doubt as to which book the first appearance occurs.

The first time they are mentioned as a team Wonder-Girl is included. She does not appear in 54. Ill scan the splash of my reader tomorrow unless someone beats me to the punch.

[Superman2006]

I can understand why this debate that has gone on for many years, as it is somewhat subjective. My understanding / opinion of it all is as follows:

 

Robin, Aqualad and Kid Flash first teamed up B&B #54. They then teamed up again in B&B #60 along with Wondergirl and named their team the Teen Titans.

 

In my opinion, B&B #54 provided the origin story for the team that would later add Wondergirl and officially name themselves the Teen Titans in B&B #60, and as such, in my opinion, it follows that B&B #54 is also the first appearance of the Teen Titans (sort of like in my mind TTA #27 is the origin and first appearance of Ant Man, even if Ant Man isn't in costume).

 

That said, I think they're both great books, and I'm happy to own both (although I am in need of an upgrade for #60, which is tough to find).

[Cyclops]

Writer/Editor, pre #54: Hmm gotta meet the deadline. Hey, let's do a team up in issue #54. We'll put these characters together to combat evil and that'll be a great story.

 

Writer/Editor, pre #60: Hey, we got a great response to issue #54. Let's capitalize on that and have them become a permanent team... the Teen Titans! Huzzah!

[HighStakesComics]

I've been having connectivity issues with my scanner all morning. It's on my wireless network. If someone else could post the splash page from their reader, I believe it would settle this once and for all.

[Crimebuster]

 

.....but, I'm a little confused about Wonder Girl; her 1st appearance is listed as in B&B #60, but she was in Wonder Woman in several issues before that, so what's the story here? Is that Wonder Girl in the Wonder Woman comics not the same??

 

 

The reason is simple and hilarious: Bob Haney apparently didn't read Wonder Woman and therefore assumed that Wonder Girl was a separate character from Wonder Woman. So that's how he wrote her.

 

Which is a perfectly reasonable assumption given that Wonder Girl (and Wonder Tot) often teamed up with Wonder Woman. Of course, if you've read those issues of Wonder Woman - which I don't recommend - it turns out that both Wonder Girl and Wonder Tot are younger versions of Wonder Woman, and she teams up with herself through the power of magic.

 

Since that's clearly insane, though, Haney just wrote Wonder Girl as though she were a different character entirely. It's my understanding that it wasn't until after the fact that someone, probably the readers, pointed out that Wonder Girl is supposed to be Wonder Woman herself. But that obviously wouldn't work long term in a team-up title, plus it was stupid. The solution: Just make her a new character named Donna instead.

 

Which might explain why Donna Troy's origin has been so messed up and convoluted since, because she wasn't intended to even exist.