1st Teen Titans 3 3

[JTLarsen]

And are you really satisfied with owning a 60 and no 54, I've never run into a Teen Titans collector who was.

 

This Titans fan is very satisfied owning 60 and not 54. So there is your first.

 

Wow. That surprises even me. I don't consider myself a Titans completist, but I do own 60 and TT 1. I do consider BB54 an important milestone in the history/development of the TT and even though I don't consider it their first appearance, I would still like to own a copy some day.

 

So, wow, this is interesting!

[AlexanderM]

I own all three. The origin (54), the first appearance as a team (60), and first in own title (1).

[StingerMcK]

Yeah I own #60, #1 and New Teen Titans #1

 

But IMO BB #54 is one of the ugliest covers in the SA. No Titans logo, half the team knocked out like a 90's JLA cover, and a boring villain with squiggly lines.

 

I have owned it several times and always sell it. When it came to that book I decided that I just dont care to own it despite its importance.

[nearmint]

Yeah I own #60, #1 and New Teen Titans #1

 

But IMO BB #54 is one of the ugliest covers in the SA. No Titans logo, half the team knocked out like a 90's JLA cover, and a boring villain with squiggly lines.

 

I have owned it several times and always sell it. When it came to that book I decided that I just dont care to own it despite its importance.

 

Interesting. I've always liked the color palette on BB54.

[JTLarsen]

Yeah I own #60, #1 and New Teen Titans #1

 

But IMO BB #54 is one of the ugliest covers in the SA. No Titans logo, half the team knocked out like a 90's JLA cover, and a boring villain with squiggly lines.

 

I have owned it several times and always sell it. When it came to that book I decided that I just dont care to own it despite its importance.

 

Actually, I do agree with this, too. Just an unfortunate cover all around.

[THB]

I like the cover to BB 54.

[nearmint]

This should sell for a few bucks...

 

[Hepcat]

On 10/15/2014 at 4:52 PM, Crimebuster said:

The reason is simple and hilarious: Bob Haney apparently didn't read Wonder Woman and therefore assumed that Wonder Girl was a separate character from Wonder Woman. So that's how he wrote her.

 

Which is a perfectly reasonable assumption given that Wonder Girl (and Wonder Tot) often teamed up with Wonder Woman. Of course, if you've read those issues of Wonder Woman - which I don't recommend - it turns out that both Wonder Girl and Wonder Tot are younger versions of Wonder Woman, and she teams up with herself through the power of magic.

 

Since that's clearly insane, though, Haney just wrote Wonder Girl as though she were a different character entirely. It's my understanding that it wasn't until after the fact that someone, probably the readers, pointed out that Wonder Girl is supposed to be Wonder Woman herself. But that obviously wouldn't work long term in a team-up title, plus it was stupid. The solution: Just make her a new character named Donna instead.

 

 

Excellent overview! Not only that but Wonder Woman writer/editor Robert Kanigher had gotten very sloppy about labelling the tales in which Wonder Woman appeared beside her younger selves as "Impossible Tales". Kanigher himself seemed to be treating Wonder Girl anyway as a distinct character. In fact with Wonder Woman herself seated beside them, Queen Hippolyta tells Wonder Girl that her father was lost at sea in the "Wonder Girl's Mysterious Father" story from the February 1965 issue #152 of Wonder Woman!

 

On 10/15/2014 at 4:52 PM, Crimebuster said:

Which might explain why Donna Troy's origin has been so messed up and convoluted since, because she wasn't intended to even exist.

 

Wonder Girl's origin wasn't actually addressed until Marv Wolfman took on the assignment when he was scripting The New Teen Titans in the 1980's. Wolfman gave her a great backstory.

In Wolfman's origin tale, Wonder Girl's mother was Dorothy Hinckley, a dying unwed teen, who had decided to place Donna up for adoption. Before Donna was actually adopted though, Wonder Woman saved toddler Donna from an apartment fire and then, for whatever reason, turned her over to the Titans who were the predecessors of the Olympian gods. In a subsequent rewrite of her origin, it was Rhea the queen of the Titan gods who saved baby Donna from the fire. Combining the two events would have Rhea planting the thoughts in Diana's head to be there to save Donna from the fire. This would be perfectly consistent with Greek mythology since the gods were always getting mortals to act in their stead and do their bidding.

Donna was then raised in the New Cronus home of the Titan gods and imbued with the powers of the Titans. Upon reaching the age of puberty, she was sent to Paradise Island to learn the ways of mortals while receiving the advanced training of an Amazon warrior. Her memories though were first wiped/altered so that she thought of herself as Queen Hippolyta's daughter and Wonder Woman's sister. Given that she had earlier received the powers of the Titans, her powers already rivalled those of  her older "sister". Wonder Woman had herself been animated by the Olympian gods from the clay statue of an infant molded by the barren Queen Hippolyta and gifted with the powers of six of their number.

But the question of Wonder Girl's father was never addressed in her origin tales. And why was Donna Troy so special that she had not only merited the attention of Rhea but was also clearly under her protection? The only explanation that would make good sense is that one of the Titans must have been her father. After all, the ancient gods frequently dicked about with mortals.

Like I say, a great origin!  It incorporated the legendary Titans who predated the Olympian gods and therefore very fittingly explained how Wonder Girl got powers rivalling Wonder Woman's own! That's why I've chosen to ignore any subsequent retconning of Wonder Girl's origin tale.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Hepcat

[Hepcat]

 

So I hear that the Wonder Woman movie implies that Zeus was the father of Wonder Woman and Queen Hippolyta her mother. I guess DC had retconned Wonder Woman's origin to make Zeus her father when the New 52 was launched back in 2011. That would not only be an entirely fitting explanation for Wonder Woman's great powers, but make them rival Superman's in some ways. The explanation would also parallel that of Wonder Girl's origin as well as serve to make Queen Hippolyta a much more interesting character.

 

[nearmint]

You guys watching the BB54 CGC 9.8 in the CL auction?  Currently at $30,055.  I wonder what it will hammer at.

[Martin Sinescu]

Not to mention they have a 9.4 of B&B 60 right behind, which CLink rightfully gushes over in their description: 

Quote

This very rare high grade item is 1 of the Top 4 highest graded examples for this incredibly tough 1965 issue of Brave and the Bold that CGC has ever certified. This very popular issue features the first appearance of Wonder Girl. It's also considered to the second appearance of the Teen Titans after Brave and the Bold #54, and is the first time the name "Teen Titans" is actually used! Its black cover border has long plagued high grade collectors seeking a true Near Mint example, and this is only the second 9.4 - and first in the past 7 years - that we have ever brought to auction. One of a scant 3 examples ever graded 9.4 by CGC, it's bested by only a single 9.6. This is a very rare opportunity at auction for high grade Silver Age DC collectors!

 

[JLA Brad]

19 hours ago, nearmint said:

You guys watching the BB54 CGC 9.8 in the CL auction?  Currently at $30,055.  I wonder what it will hammer at.

That is an amazing price - with so much time left, you would think it has a lot of room to move. 

[Gotham Kid]

20 hours ago, nearmint said:

You guys watching the BB54 CGC 9.8 in the CL auction?  Currently at $30,055.  I wonder what it will hammer at.

40K-45K

[lou_fine]

On 9/6/2017 at 6:15 AM, Gotham Kid said:

On 9/5/2017 at 10:08 AM, nearmint said:

You guys watching the BB54 CGC 9.8 in the CL auction?  Currently at $30,055.  I wonder what it will hammer at.

40K-45K

Shades of highest graded copies of what are otherwise common books such as GL 76, NM 98, GI Joe 21, FF 52, etc. that once sold for ridiculous amounts of money at one time and then, not surprisingly, had nowhere else to go but down. 

Clearly, lesson not learned and especially when grading is still a subjective art as opposed to an exact science in this day and age when artificial grade enhancement is still sadly the name of the game. 

[nearmint]

I don't know that you can lump in BB54 with the other books that you mentioned, which have much higher census numbers. 

NM98 - 13,250 copies

FF52 - 2455 copies

GL76 - 1650 copies

BB54 - 661 copies

[Chillax23]

On 2/24/2017 at 0:26 PM, THB said:

I like the cover to BB 54.

It is no BB29 cover (who doesn't love purple + robot) - but I also like the BB54 cover and don't understand the hate.

[Howling Mad]

1 hour ago, Chillax23 said:

It is no BB29 cover (who doesn't love purple + robot) - but I also like the BB54 cover and don't understand the hate.

I want to like it, but it's just a mess. Though I also fall firmly into the BB54 isn't really the 1st appearance of the Teen Titans camp, so that probably doesn't hurt. I wouldn't mind owning a copy though.

[JTLarsen]

9 hours ago, Howling Mad said:

I want to like it, but it's just a mess. Though I also fall firmly into the BB54 isn't really the 1st appearance of the Teen Titans camp, so that probably doesn't hurt. I wouldn't mind owning a copy though.

Total mess. That scribbled tornado. That villain. That lack of Teen Titans logo or appearance or mention. Just an ughy book. (That I also wouldn't mind owning.)

[Martin Sinescu]

8 hours ago, Howling Mad said:

I want to like it, but it's just a mess. Though I also fall firmly into the BB54 isn't really the 1st appearance of the Teen Titans camp, so that probably doesn't hurt. I wouldn't mind owning a copy though.

IMO, the covers for 54 and 60 look like they were made a decade or more apart. Cardy's art, action and layout on BB 60 are just in a different league of sophistication. 54 manages to be busy in a haphazard, amateurish sort of way, yet flat, wooden and static -- just what you don't want in a cover. It doesn't stand out to me in any way other than being hard to look at while 60 is a pleasure to me because of its uncomplicated yet dynamic structure. I love how the center of the scene is just dead space and an elbow, normally something you as an artist would be taught to avoid, yet the circle Cardy forms with the characters, the waves, the lasso keeps your eye continuously moving in a fluid motion around the frame. The figures and their gestures are all powerful and distinct, so that there's actual substance and purpose in their poses when your eye does settle on a character. Yeah, I'm in the BB 60 camp as well for all the reasons already stated in this thread (first time the name is used, the team isn't the team without WG), but to me the cover, the story, the villain are all far more interesting than 54, too. 

[Silver]

I like the cover to 54. I,like the story a lot, it's one of my favorites from the time period. I have said befor, BB 50-61 is about the best 12 issue run DC had in the silver age. I can't think of a better one.