Silver age comics that are heating up 26 26

[comixry]

On 7/8/2020 at 11:14 PM, HuddyBee said:

It's been going up for a while. Heck, I picked up a copy for $40 in 2016 and the book has skyrocketed since then. I'm just amazed at the price the book is going for, and I doubt it will go down. It's time SA DC keys got the attention they deserved.

I'm currently tracking a Mycomicshop auction for Hawkman #4 CGC 7.5 (white pages) with less than 2 days to go. It's at $810 right now which I think is slightly above what CGC's were going per grade level (about $100 per grade level) before the news. So, I was thinking this one would end around $750. However, a July 4 eBay sale of a CGC 7.5 went for $995 and another eBay sale of a CGC 8.5 went for $1910 just three days ago, so this one might go higher. Glad to see Zatanna getting some love!

[thor800]

10 hours ago, comixry said:

I'm currently tracking a Mycomicshop auction for Hawkman #4 CGC 7.5 (white pages) with less than 2 days to go. It's at $810 right now which I think is slightly above what CGC's were going per grade level (about $100 per grade level) before the news. So, I was thinking this one would end around $750. However, a July 4 eBay sale of a CGC 7.5 went for $995 and another eBay sale of a CGC 8.5 went for $1910 just three days ago, so this one might go higher. Glad to see Zatanna getting some love!

DC Silver Age Keys have definitely not gotten much love compared to Marvel in the past 3 years - wonder when this will change

[thor800]

Thor 168 & 169 seems to be moving alot 

[Sweet Lou 14]

1 hour ago, thor800 said:

DC Silver Age Keys have definitely not gotten much love compared to Marvel in the past 3 years - wonder when this will change

When someone goes back in time and makes the stories good?

[comixry]

36 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

When someone goes back in time and makes the stories good?

LOL....Different times for sure.

[EC Star&Bar]

1 hour ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

When someone goes back in time and makes the stories good?

No one can convince some Marvelites that SA DC had good stuff.  But Marvel had its share of mediocre material as well.  Like when practically EVERY male member of the earliest X-Men drooled over Jean Grey, including Professor X.  I'll take the sublime DC SA artwork of Kubert, M. Anderson, Heath, and G. Kane over Marvel's Werner Roth, Al Hartley, and Don Heck any day.

[Sweet Lou 14]

1 minute ago, EC Star&Bar said:

No one can convince some Marvelites that SA DC had good stuff.  But Marvel had its share of mediocre material as well.  Like when practically EVERY male member of the earliest X-Men drooled over Jean Grey, including Professor X.  I'll take the sublime DC SA artwork of Kubert, M. Anderson, Heath, and G. Kane over Marvel's Werner Roth, Al Hartley, and Don Heck any day.

By all means, like what you like and collect what you collect.

The fact that you can point out some DC work that has good art, and some Marvel work that you consider "mediocre," doesn't really have much bearing on my broader point, that from a storytelling standpoint Silver Age DC material is for the most part not just bad -- it's colossally, almost unimaginably and unforgivably bad.

[thor800]

17 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

By all means, like what you like and collect what you collect.

The fact that you can point out some DC work that has good art, and some Marvel work that you consider "mediocre," doesn't really have much bearing on my broader point, that from a storytelling standpoint Silver Age DC material is for the most part not just bad -- it's colossally, almost unimaginably and unforgivably bad.

Gil Kane / Nick Cardy / Infantino / Kubert / Adams weren't quality artists ?

Regardless of your take on the storytelling quality, there are still major characters that came out of Silver Age DC - the only difference is that they haven't gotten the same exposure on the big screen as Marvel.

[Sweet Lou 14]

I feel I should follow up my last post because I really don't want to upset or insult anyone who feels love and nostalgia for DC Silver Age books.  Yes, I am a Marvel collector and those are the books and characters I enjoy the most.  That certainly gives me a bias.  But it's not like I haven't seen most of the DC movies (from Christopher Reeve to Gal Godot), and it's not like I didn't enjoy modern books like Frank Miller's Dark Knight or the Watchmen (a DC book outside DC continuity), and it's not as though I wouldn't be interested in collecting Superman or Batman comics from the Golden Age if I could afford them.  I'm not trying to hate on all things DC.

My opinion is just my own, and I'm speaking only for myself, but when someone asks when DC Silver Age books will be valued like Marvel Silver Age books, my answer is never.  Comparing the two in terms of quality and impact seems completely ridiculous to me.  Could some of the art be "sublime"?  Sure, although none of it stacks up to Kirby and Ditko.  But art isn't where it all falls apart for me.  DC books of that era seem to have been written with almost no regard for the reader's intelligence -- most of the stories are complete gimmicks, severely lacking in creativity or originality.  Most of the time when I look at one of the covers, I almost feel insulted.  There is a very obvious, deliberate editorial style running through all of this material, relentlessly tossing out the same lazy and derivative material. 

I've got strong opinions about this but again, I really want to be respectful of DC fans who love this stuff.  Definitely love what you love -- and perhaps be glad that what you love is more affordable.  But there is definitely a reason why.

[EC Star&Bar]

DC's SA science-fiction, war, children's (Sugar & Spike), and romance ALL were superior to the Marvel output.  What did Marvel offer that was comparable to Rip Hunter or Sea Devils?  Where was their historical-based adventure material to rival DC's Viking Prince, Robin Hood, and Frontier Fighters?  That last part of your sentence (earlier post) is somewhat insulting.  I'd rather read an 8-page Bill Finger Batman story from 1957 than most any Marvel, with the exception of some of the best Lee & Ditko work.  Just preference.  Marvel was Lee, Kirby, and Ditko.  Once they were no longer producing there, things fell off pretty dramatically.  Basically Marvel had 10 years of compelling superhero work starting in '61.  But DC had set the stage with titles like Showcase,  The Flash, and Challs.  To dismiss SA DC in such a harsh manner is as unfair as if I were to dump on Bronze Marvel -- which is unfair due to Conan and ToD being good, while most Marvel hero titles slipped badly after 1971.

Edited July 13, 2020 by EC Star&Bar

[Sweet Lou 14]

2 minutes ago, thor800 said:

Gil Kane / Nick Cardy / Infantino / Kubert / Adams weren't quality artists ?

Regardless of your take on the storytelling quality, there are still major characters that came out of Silver Age DC - the only difference is that they haven't gotten the same exposure on the big screen as Marvel.

One last point because I really would like for this to die down.

I am not an expert on the Silver Age DC material.  Many of the "major characters" (Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern) are just rehashes of the old GA characters, though I agree that the Silver Age character designs are generally what has stuck in pop culture so that makes them significant.  As for exposure on the big screen, my sense is that when film and TV writers mine DC material for story ideas, they are not getting much from the Silver Age.  The core concepts of DC's big three (Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman) are all laid out in the Golden Age.  Ra's al Ghul, used effectively in Batman Begins, is a Bronze Age character, no?

When I watch Marvel movies, time after time after time I am seeing specific images and storylines from the comics I collect play out on the screen.  It is simply amazing.  I could be wrong but I don't think this happens nearly as often in DC films and TV shows -- and when it does, I don't think the Silver Age is where it's coming from.

[Sweet Lou 14]

3 minutes ago, EC Star&Bar said:

DC's SA science-fiction, war, children's (Sugar & Spike), and romance ALL were superior to the Marvel output.  What did Marvel offer that was comparable to Rip Hunter or Sea Devils?  Where was their historical-based adventure material to rival DC's Viking Prince, Robin Hood, and Frontier Fighters?  That last part of your sentence (earlier post) is somewhat insulting.  I'd rather read an 8-page Bill Finger Batman story from 1957 than most any Marvel, with the exception of some of the best Lee & Ditko work.  Just preference.  Marvel was Lee, Kirby, and Ditko.  Once they were no longer producing there, things fell off pretty dramatically.  Basically Marvel had 10 years of compelling superhero work starting in '61.  But DC had set the stage with titles like Showcase,  The Flash, and Challs.  To dismiss SA DC in such a harsh manner is as unfair as if I were to dump on Bronze Marvel -- which is unfair due to Conan and ToD being good, while most Marvel hero titles slipped badly after 1971.

I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with anything you've said here.  I don't collect the genres you are referring to -- and I'm not 100% sure how relevant they are to the original question posed, which was about "keys."  With very rare exceptions, "keys" means "superheroes" -- and the more you raise the bar (value-wise) on your definition of a "key" the more the word means exclusively superheroes.  I am only talking about superhero material in my comments.  That's the only genre that is generating any of the film and TV content, and if that changes it will almost certainly because Marvel's stunning success so far spurs them to branch out more and more into other genres.  (Even as I type this, I realize that Marvel romance characters have already played minor parts in TV series like Jessica Jones and Daredevil.)

When you say Marvel had a great decade that post-dates Showcase #4 and Challengers of the Unknown, that's like saying the Beatles had a great decade that post-dates Elvis and Little Richard.  It doesn't in any way diminish the brilliance of what Marvel accomplished.

And finally, you are 100% correct that "most Marvel hero titles slipped badly after 1971."  I never enjoyed the Bronze Age books nearly as much, and I read them all, even when it felt like I was doing it just to say I did it.

I sincerely apologize if you feel insulted by anything I've said.  It's not my intent.  Thank you for the respectful dialogue.

[HuddyBee]

1 hour ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Comparing the two in terms of quality and impact seems completely ridiculous to me.  Could some of the art be "sublime"?  Sure, although none of it stacks up to Kirby and Ditko.  But art isn't where it all falls apart for me.

I'm not sure about this. Maybe I can understand your point from a writing perspective, although I do greatly enjoy Garnder Fox's DC Work. But in terms of impact, DC had a HUGE impact that can be seen today. They're responsible for the resurgence of Superheroes with Showcase 4. Hugely popular Characters like Barry Allen and Hal Jordan started in the Silver Age. Sure Barry Allen and Hal Jordan had the same superhero name as their GA counterparts, but they were far from just rehashes. The silver age made those characters.

As far as art is concerned I favor DC much more than anything put out by Marvel. Kubert, Anderson, G Kane, Fradon, Cardy are just a few artists that do indeed stack up and (IMO) surpass both Kirby and Ditko. I will say tho I've never been a fan of Kirby. 

I think currently it is difficult to compare DC and Marvels SA impact in the industry because everything is being overshadowed by the MCU. Marvel is very popular now, but that was not the case 15 years ago. 15 years ago DC and Marvel SA books were at fairly similar prices, because at that time both companies had a similar amount of popularity. Sometimes DC is more popular, sometimes Marvel. But I think there will always be a balance between the two. Don't think the hype from the MCU will last forever. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by HuddyBee

[Math Teacher]

9 minutes ago, HuddyBee said:

Characters like Barry Allen and Hal Jordan started in the Silver Age, we also got our first shrinking superhero, The Atom. (Who would later "inspire" marvel to create Antman).

Not to be argumentative, but you're forgetting Doll Man from Quality comics.

[HuddyBee]

28 minutes ago, Joe Ankenbauer said:

Not to be argumentative, but you're forgetting Doll Man from Quality comics.

 Thank you. How could I forget Doll Man?

[MusterMark]

16 hours ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

17 hours ago, thor800 said:

DC Silver Age Keys have definitely not gotten much love compared to Marvel in the past 3 years - wonder when this will change

When someone goes back in time and makes the stories good?

The stories in DC Silver Age Keys are awesome.

[MusterMark]

14 hours ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

When I watch Marvel movies, time after time after time I am seeing specific images and storylines from the comics I collect play out on the screen.  It is simply amazing.  I could be wrong but I don't think this happens nearly as often in DC films and TV shows -- and when it does, I don't think the Silver Age is where it's coming from.

Yes of course it happens.  Happens quite a lot.  (To you it may not, because you are so narrowly Marvel-superhero-centric.)  Just two examples are: The Flash and Doom Patrol.  

[Lazyboy]

On 7/13/2020 at 2:28 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

the more you raise the bar (value-wise) on your definition of a "key"

On 7/13/2020 at 2:18 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

When I watch Marvel movies, time after time after time I am seeing specific images and storylines from the comics I collect play out on the screen.  It is simply amazing.  I could be wrong but I don't think this happens nearly as often in DC films and TV shows -- and when it does, I don't think the Silver Age is where it's coming from.

I'm not sure what you've been watching, but I haven't seen much more than some basic concepts taken from SA Marvels and adapted for the screen, and that's really just because most of the big Marvel characters and their origins were introduced in the SA. Very few specific images and storylines can be attributed to SA books.

DC had less issue-to-issue continuity at the time and many big characters who didn't originate in the SA, so it wouldn't be surprising to see less screen content based on SA issues, but the SA characters seem to have just as much as Marvel's.

[Sweet Lou 14]

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

I'm not sure what you've been watching, but I haven't seen much more than some basic concepts taken from SA Marvels and adapted for the screen, and that's really just because most of the big Marvel characters and their origins were introduced in the SA. Very few specific images and storylines can be attributed to SA books.

DC had less issue-to-issue continuity at the time and many big characters who didn't originate in the SA, so it wouldn't be surprising to see less screen content based on SA issues, but the SA characters seem to have just as much as Marvel's.

I'm not a DC fan so I have not even attempted to watch all the DC content that is out there.  I've seen every Batman solo movie and every Superman solo movie, and I've seen Wonder Woman.  I grew up on Adam West, of course, and I also watched plenty of Lois and Clark and even Smallville on TV.

As far as reading, I read The Dark Knight Returns and a few other one-shots, that's about it.

When I think of the plotlines of the movies I've seen, once you're past the super-obvious classic origin story scenes (baby Kal-El's journey to Earth and discovery by the Kents, young Bruce Wayne in an alley with his dead parents and his mother's pearls all over the asphalt) I'm not aware that any of them are based directly on comic book stories.  But I'm certainly prepared to be educated -- seriously.  When you saw Superman reverse time to undo Lois Lane's death, did you recognize that scene from a book?  What about Bruce Wayne escaping an Asian prison to be trained in combat by a false Ra's Al Ghul, or the Joker setting up two boats full of people with buttons they could use to blow each other up?  My guess is no, but the truth is I don't know so I'm risking getting served a slice of humble pie here.

Obviously I'm not nearly as well-versed on the history of DC comics as a real fan would be.  But as I've understood it, it's an enormous understatement to say that the DC Silver Age had "less issue-to-issue continuity" ... I was under the impression that there was basically no attention paid to continuity at all.  Wasn't that what the Crisis series was about, in the 1980s?  Trying to hit the reset button and establish a unified reality once and for all?

I always thought the biggest strength of DC's two biggest characters was that they are such powerful archetypes, and their core mythology so rich, that they provide an infinite happy hunting grounds for writers to reinterpret and retell their basic stories.  It works.  But in my very, very humble opinion -- as a distant observer judging the books mostly by what I can glean from their covers -- I can see the true essence of these characters, and their glorious potential, reflected in the Golden Age books, and in the more recent books that brought that essence back, but I really don't see it in the Silver Age.  I see something diminished and watered-down by an editor who had a formula that was working and was perfectly comfortable letting these characters stagnate for years.

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

What about Bruce Wayne escaping an Asian prison to be trained in combat by a false Ra's Al Ghul

Well, Henri Ducard appeared in Detective Comics 598-600 in flashback as a character who mentored Bruce when he was traveling the world learning and training to become Batman. In the present, he journeyed to Gotham and figured out that Bruce was Batman. The story also involved misappropriated Wayne Tech technology. Sound familiar at all?

1 hour ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I was under the impression that there was basically no attention paid to continuity at all.  Wasn't that what the Crisis series was about, in the 1980s?  Trying to hit the reset button and establish a unified reality once and for all?

No, Crisis on Infinite Earths was about cleaning up/condensing the multiverse. DC did have continuity, it just wasn't done the same way as it was at Marvel. There were more self-contained stories that didn't have much or any lasting impact. But more isn't the same as all.