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Silver age comics that are heating up
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4,098 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

It's possible that Lex Luthor is the only Superman villain that the average person on the street has heard of.  Nobody has heard of Darkseid or Braniac.  General Zod is probably (?) in second place in terms of widespread name recognition?

Bizarro Superman was spoofed on SNL I believe

 

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56 minutes ago, the blob said:

Bizarro Superman was spoofed on SNL I believe

 

Yes, I will go with that.  Seinfeld also brought Bizarro into the public space so he's probably #2 or #3.  The question is how many people know that he is a Superman villain rather than just a generic Seinfeld joke.  Sort of like how many Seinfeld fans really know who George Steinbrenner is (was).

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28 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Yes, I will go with that.  Seinfeld also brought Bizarro into the public space so he's probably #2 or #3.  The question is how many people know that he is a Superman villain rather than just a generic Seinfeld joke.  Sort of like how many Seinfeld fans really know who George Steinbrenner is (was).

Anyone from the Northeast and ohio or who knew anything about baseball knew who Steinbrenner was. Maybe not the schtick they did so much, but he was nationally known.

 

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5 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Yes ASM 1 has to be....and the book in reference was Dooms first appearance outside of Fantastic Four which came in ASM and it was his sixth appearance.

Spiderman 6th appearance is more valuable obviously...oops its actually the same value as Dooms 6th appearance....can you tell me why?

Spider-Man's 6th appearance is Amazing Spider-Man 4. You are forgetting either Amazing Fantasy 15 or Strange Tales Annual 2.

And I think the answer you are looking for is that characters featured in their eponymous title have run issues that do not compare to the keys of that run, even if they may be a little earlier. Amazing Spider-Man 5 is relatively unimportant in the run compared to, say, 14. Characters without a title of their own have more of their history riding in fewer appearances. Plus FOMO, I take it.

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23 minutes ago, littledoom said:

Joker, Darth Vader.. they're both up there together.. maybe the most iconic marvel villain is Green Goblin and it shows... Wizard answered this debate like a decade ago in a top 100 villains list

Joker had a billion dollar movie with no Batman in it. Highest grossing R rated movie of all time .. and that might even include adjusting for inflation. I'm not sure a Green Goblin movie (without Spidey) could pull that off. Yes, Phoenix was brilliant in it, etc. And true, foreign audiences loved it (the R rating probably hurt it here).

 

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1 hour ago, the blob said:

Anyone from the Northeast and ohio or who knew anything about baseball knew who Steinbrenner was. Maybe not the schtick they did so much, but he was nationally known.

 

You're talking to a lifelong Yankee fan so I hear you.  I just don't know what anyone else might have known about him.

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1 hour ago, littledoom said:

Joker, Darth Vader.. they're both up there together.. maybe the most iconic marvel villain is Green Goblin and it shows... Wizard answered this debate like a decade ago in a top 100 villains list

Any poll taken a decade ago would be dated now.  Thanos for example would rank much much higher today than he would have in 2010.

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2 hours ago, PeterPark said:

Spider-Man's 6th appearance is Amazing Spider-Man 4. You are forgetting either Amazing Fantasy 15 or Strange Tales Annual 2.

And I think the answer you are looking for is that characters featured in their eponymous title have run issues that do not compare to the keys of that run, even if they may be a little earlier. Amazing Spider-Man 5 is relatively unimportant in the run compared to, say, 14. Characters without a title of their own have more of their history riding in fewer appearances. Plus FOMO, I take it.

Its definitely not AF 15 I'm forgetting lol

But definitely agree with you that ASM 14 is far more valuable (historically and financially) then ASM 5

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4 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Its definitely not AF 15 I'm forgetting lol

But definitely agree with you that ASM 14 is far more valuable (historically and financially) then ASM 5

My point is though, that if Spider-Man had appeared sparingly in this era, with appearances spread out where each issue focused largely on his presence (like a villain appearance), it would bump the title more than a regular appearance of that character. That said, ASM 5 is early enough the value of the book is not due to Doctor Doom, at least not historically. I don't think it is a story more important than the many introductions coming in the first 20 issues (6,9,10,13,14,15,20), and it is the first of the title without introducing a new villain (unless there is some esoteric character I am forgetting). I didn't look up Doctor Doom's other appearances, but I'm guessing this one has a huge increase over his 4th or 5th appearances, and none of that is due to him (again, at least not historically).

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I grew up loving the FF so I personally have Doom as my #1 marvel SV. I can see the case for Magneto. 

I think of Spidey villians similarly to Batman in the sense that they introduced a ton of amazing characters.  Green Goblin and Doc Oc are probably the top 2, but as a kid, the Lizard was my favorite. 

Overall, Joker is #1.  Luther, Two Face, Riddler, and penguin are all in the top 5 conversation.  

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1 hour ago, KCOComics said:

I grew up loving the FF so I personally have Doom as my #1 marvel SV. I can see the case for Magneto. 

I think of Spidey villians similarly to Batman in the sense that they introduced a ton of amazing characters.  Green Goblin and Doc Oc are probably the top 2, but as a kid, the Lizard was my favorite. 

Overall, Joker is #1.  Luther, Two Face, Riddler, and penguin are all in the top 5 conversation.  

Luther is a big gun

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7 hours ago, PeterPark said:

My point is though, that if Spider-Man had appeared sparingly in this era, with appearances spread out where each issue focused largely on his presence (like a villain appearance), it would bump the title more than a regular appearance of that character. That said, ASM 5 is early enough the value of the book is not due to Doctor Doom, at least not historically. I don't think it is a story more important than the many introductions coming in the first 20 issues (6,9,10,13,14,15,20), and it is the first of the title without introducing a new villain (unless there is some esoteric character I am forgetting). I didn't look up Doctor Doom's other appearances, but I'm guessing this one has a huge increase over his 4th or 5th appearances, and none of that is due to him (again, at least not historically).

Yeah I agree

And the value of the book (ASM 5) is due more to it being Spiderman then Doom appearing it it...since it is Doom's 6th appearance and his 2,3,4,5 aren't as valuable.

That's why I have had the same discussion regarding Thanos, had Thanos first appearance been in ASM rather then IM then guaranteed we would be talking about a 30k book in 9.8 grade rather then a 5k book. The same goes for Venom, Punisher and even Morbius had they first appeared elsewhere

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6 hours ago, littledoom said:

Luther is a big gun

Agreed

But I don't know, I just don't like him, his villainy doesn't appeal to me, but then again neither does Supermans courageous nobility, I mean he is as boring of a superhero as luther is of a villain. That being said though General Zod is interesting.

Spidermans villains are always cool as is Batmans...I believe I listed only Marvel villains but adding DC villains Joker will always top the list, and the movie about his internal struggles that led to his insanity was really well done.

Could you do an origin story about Norman Osborne decent into madness and becoming Green Goblin (its arguable) but they did a villain movie with Venom (sadly they got it all messed up and made him an anti hero) and that was huge box office success.

All jokes aside about Venom and villain movies. I cannot see a Marvel villain origin story stand alone movie. Marvel villains are too 'out of this world'  and wouldnt captivate audiences like the Joker (very realistic) movie.

The great thing about most Batman villains are that they are more 'realistic'. Their super villainy is genuinely human and actually possible, whereas it is doubtful someone creates a serum that turns them into a lizard.

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9 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:
15 hours ago, littledoom said:

Luther is a big gun

Agreed

But I don't know, I just don't like him, his villainy doesn't appeal to me, but then again neither does Supermans courageous nobility, I mean he is as boring of a superhero as luther is of a villain.

It is precisely because we don't expect much of anything from Luthor, but he always surprises us in the most devious ways, that he is a great villain.

And last time I checked, the attributes of nobility and courage form the core of what it means to be a true hero.

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47 minutes ago, MusterMark said:

 

And last time I checked, the attributes of nobility and courage form the core of what it means to be a true hero.

Yeah

Thats what I got when I Googled 'Hero'. I don't know I just feel it's more suspenseful when a hero might 'lose' like Batman, Superman to me feels invincible. I get it Doomsday beat him but did we really think he was 'gone maybe im just making excuses why I don't like Supes

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1 hour ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Yeah

Thats what I got when I Googled 'Hero'. I don't know I just feel it's more suspenseful when a hero might 'lose' like Batman, Superman to me feels invincible. I get it Doomsday beat him but did we really think he was 'gone maybe im just making excuses why I don't like Supes

How often have you thought that Batman would really be “gone”?

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