Silver age comics that are heating up 26 26

[Callaway29]

Just imagine if disney/marvel got their hands on sufficient rights to make self-titled solo hulk movies....

[bpc3qh]

10 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

So I think old school collectors will continue to prefer the 1962 keys over X1. 

I am fine with that. I don't have an X-Men 1 yet, and I need one, but I won't have the money for at least 12-18 months, so I'm desperately hoping that by then the book has cooled off from the speculators driving it up, and I only have to contend with the traditional collectors.

[KCOComics]

1 hour ago, bpc3qh said:

I am fine with that. I don't have an X-Men 1 yet, and I need one, but I won't have the money for at least 12-18 months, so I'm desperately hoping that by then the book has cooled off from the speculators driving it up, and I only have to contend with the traditional collectors.

Good luck with your pursuit. I'm sure things will level off and even retract a bit.  If not, I'll sell you my 2.0 for $78k in 18 months (assuming it keeps trending the same way). 

[Pantodude]

SOMEONE must nip this crazy talk in the bud, so here goes.  

Seems silly to attempt to rewrite history based on spec activity.  Certain books are making more gains for spec purposes right now, but that does not make the book suddenly more important to Marvel than IH#1 or the other earlier SA books, which are currently higher on the Marvel podium.   The early "Marvel Age" intros (the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, Thor, Spidey) have always been special compared to Marvel's subsequent 1st appearances, and for very good reasons having nothing to do with spec.  In the case of  X-Men #1, we have Disney's recent acquisition of X-Men rights and the buzz of potential movies.  But up until very recently, there was never any question that IH1 (and FF1, JIM83, AF15, and even ASM1--despite being a 1963 book too) is the more significant book to Marvel.  

Let's take an extreme hypothetical to make this point clear.  Let's assume X-Men #1 goes ballistic nonstop for a decade and overtakes FF#1 (another team-up book) on a per point basis.  NO ONE in their right mind would ever say that X-Men #1 (the book) is more significant to Marvel (and thus Marvel collectors) than FF#1 (the book).  The Marvel Universe was born with FF#1, arguably the most important Silver Age Marvel comic book ever published, even more so than AF15.  And IH1, JIM83, etc also helped put Marvel on the map in 1962.  All those books, especially FF#1 as the first Marvel team-up ever, paved the way for X-Men #1 in 1963.  So X-Men #1, like Avengers #1, can never overtake that special group of 1962 early Marvels in terms of importance to Marvel, no matter how important it becomes to our individual pocket books due to spec.  Full disclosure, I own X-Men #1 and of course wish it the best on a per point basis going forward.  But I remain rational about it's relative importance to Marvel's comic book roots.  

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....  

Edited February 18, 2021 by Pantodude

[Chillax23]

7 minutes ago, Pantodude said:

SOMEONE must nip this crazy talk in the bud, so here goes.  

Seems silly to attempt to rewrite history based on spec activity.  Certain books are making more gains for spec purposes right now, but that does not make the book suddenly more important to Marvel than IH#1 or the other earlier SA books, which are currently higher on the Marvel podium.   The early "Marvel Age" intros (the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, Thor, Spidey) have always been special compared to Marvel's subsequent 1st appearances, and for very good reasons having nothing to do with spec.  In the case of  X-Men #1, we have Disney's recent acquisition of X-Men rights and the buzz of potential movies.  But up until very recently, there was never any question that IH1 (and FF1, JIM83, AF15, and even ASM1--despite being a 1963 book too) is the more significant book to Marvel.  

Let's take an extreme hypothetical to make this point clear.  Let's assume X-Men #1 goes ballistic nonstop for a decade and overtakes FF#1 (another team-up book) on a per point basis.  NO ONE in their right mind would ever say that X-Men #1 (the book) is more significant to Marvel (and thus Marvel collectors) than FF#1 (the book).  The Marvel Universe was born with FF#1, arguably the most important Silver Age Marvel comic book ever published, even more so than AF15.  And IH1, JIM83, etc also helped put Marvel on the map in 1962.  All those books, especially FF#1 as the first Marvel team-up ever, paved the way for X-Men #1 in 1963.  So X-Men #1, like Avengers #1, can never overtake that special group of 1962 early Marvels in terms of importance to Marvel, no matter how important it becomes to our individual pocket books due to spec.  Full disclosure, I own X-Men #1 and of course wish it the best on a per point basis going forward.  But I remain rational about it's relative importance to Marvel's comic book roots.  

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....  

It is a fair point - and I agree that certain books helped pave the way for Marvel early (FF1 etc.).  That being said, while Hulk 1 is a big key, and a very recognizable character - for the last 30-40 years the X-Men have been far more popular to the average reader than the Hulk has. The bronze age set the X-Men on fire and their run/popularity has continued since then.  So while the Hulk may be first and more popular in the 60s and 70s - for the majority of the life of Marvel the X-Men have been more significant IMO.  So there is a strong argument that when characters are more popular and more integral to Marvel for say 2/3's of Marvel's existence that those characters are ultimately more important.

Its the same argument as to why AF15 is more important than FF1 - sure FF1 started everything - but Spider-Man is by far the most important Marvel Character and has been for decades.

That being said I am not sure where I land on a top 3 or top 5 etc. - but I wouldn't necessarily object to people saying X-Men 1 is the third most important Marvel book (AF15 -FF1 - XM1).  However, Hulk 1 is a great book and I would LOVE to own one and I do expect it will have a run up soon based on its importance but also its relative scarcity.

[piper]

3 minutes ago, Chillax23 said:

It is a fair point - and I agree that certain books helped pave the way for Marvel early (FF1 etc.).  That being said, while Hulk 1 is a big key, and a very recognizable character - for the last 30-40 years the X-Men have been far more popular to the average reader than the Hulk has. The bronze age set the X-Men on fire and their run/popularity has continued since then.  So while the Hulk may be first and more popular in the 60s and 70s - for the majority of the life of Marvel the X-Men have been more significant IMO.  So there is a strong argument that when characters are more popular and more integral to Marvel for say 2/3's of Marvel's existence that those characters are ultimately more important.

Its the same argument as to why AF15 is more important than FF1 - sure FF1 started everything - but Spider-Man is by far the most important Marvel Character and has been for decades.

That being said I am not sure where I land on a top 3 or top 5 etc. - but I wouldn't necessarily object to people saying X-Men 1 is the third most important Marvel book (AF15 -FF1 - XM1).  However, Hulk 1 is a great book and I would LOVE to own one and I do expect it will have a run up soon based on its importance but also its relative scarcity.

GSX1 and IH181 are more important than UXM1.

[Pantodude]

I hear you Chillax23, all good points.  But your comments about AF15 suggest you are missing the point regarding what I said about X-Men #1 relative to IH1.  I was referring to "relative importance to Marvel's comic book roots".   FF1 is more important than AF15 in that respect, tor the same reasons that FF1 and IH1 and JIM83 will forever be more important than X-Men #1 to Marvel's comic book roots.   Popularity changes over time, and depends on catalysts more often than not.  But history cannot be (or at least should not be) rewritten.  Any book could become the flavor of the day, although to be fair any of the books we are talking could be the flavors of the century.  That is all I am saying.  

Edited February 18, 2021 by Pantodude

[kimik]

IH 1 pricing was always driven by the perceived scarcity in grade due to the dark cover, not the popularity of the character. Just a short while back when it was the hot book it was approaching AF 15 levels in low to mid grade, which made zero sense since Spidey>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hulk in popularity and importance. Even with the Avengers movies, the Hulk has been in a bit of a plateau/pull back in value since the spec money has moved off of it. Hulk is a supporting character, not a lead like ASM. 

The X-Men franchise >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hulk in popularity and importance as well since the mid to late 70s. As a result, it is not a stretch if we eventually see X-Men 1 being worth as much or more that Hulk 1 due to demand. While Hulk 1 is perceived to be harder to find in mid to high grade, all you need for both books in pretty much any grade is a deep enough wallet to pick up a copy 24/7/365 nowadays. I don't see how either one is scarce.

Edited February 18, 2021 by kimik

[kimik]

8 minutes ago, Pantodude said:

I hear you Chillax23, all good points.  But your comments about AF15 suggest you are missing the point regarding what I said about X-Men #1 relative to IH1.  I was referring to "relative importance to Marvel's comic book roots".   FF1 is more important than AF15 in that respect, tor the same reasons that FF1 and IH1 and JIM83 will forever be more important than X-Men #1 to Marvel's comic book roots.   Popularity changes over time, and depends on catalysts more often than not.  But history cannot be (or at least should not be) rewritten.  Any book could become the flavor of the day, although to be fair any of the books we are talking could be the flavors of the century.  That is all I am saying.  

It depends on when you started collecting. For anyone that started reading from 1975 onwards, then the FF and Hulk are not as important as the X-Men. I can remember buying my first copy of FF off the rack in 1987 due to the "Greatest Comic book" tagline and wondering why it sucked so badly compared to X-Men, ASM, Batman, GI Joe, Transformers, to name a few titles. Thor was a bit better than FF, but not much. 

 

[kimik]

16 minutes ago, piper said:

GSX1 and IH181 are more important than UXM1.

And all three are more important than Hulk 1 now based on character popularity.

Edited February 18, 2021 by kimik

[Chillax23]

12 minutes ago, Pantodude said:

I hear you Chillax23, all good points.  But your comments about AF15 suggest you are missing the point regarding what I said about X-Men #1 relative to IH1.  I was referring to "relative importance to Marvel's comic book roots".   FF1 is more important than AF15 in that respect, tor the same reasons that FF1 and IH1 and JIM83 will forever be more important than X-Men #1 to Marvel's comic book roots.   Popularity changes over time, and depends on catalysts more often than not.  But history cannot be (or at least should not be) rewritten.  Any book could become the flavor of the day, although to be fair any of the books we are talking could be the flavors of the century.  That is all I am saying.  

I understand your point - and I don't necessarily disagree with it - but I also don't agree with it either

I think many would argue that AF15 is more important to Marvel than FF1 and even more important to Marvel's History - and I am guessing that group gives weight to FF1 being first, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor.  IT is the same debate for Marvel Comics #1 vs Cap #1.

I can see both sides of the argument - and not really sure where i land on it - but I wouldn't outright dismiss X-Men 1 being viewed as more important than Hulk 1.

[KCOComics]

11 minutes ago, kimik said:

It depends on when you started collecting. For anyone that started reading from 1975 onwards, then the FF and Hulk are not as important as the X-Men. I can remember buying my first copy of FF off the rack in 1987 due to the "Greatest Comic book" tagline and wondering why it sucked so badly compared to X-Men, ASM, Batman, GI Joe, Transformers, to name a few titles. Thor was a bit better than FF, but not much. 

 

There is a lot of truth to this. 

My position, as a collector, will always be IH1 >X1.  IH1 was a book I plotted and planned for. Sold books and saved $$ to get. It was a big deal. 

But as a comic fan, X-Men were a much bigger part of my childhood.  That was why I commented earlier about younger collectors caring more about X-Men than Hulk.  That's what my generation grew up with. That's what we talked about at school and remembered (I'm 38 for reference).  

For the record, I agree with everyone @Pantodude said. He's 100% right.  IH1 is a much more important book. JIM83 and TOS39 are all books I enjoy and prioritized above X1. 

But I also understand why we are seeing the momentum. It's not just speculation $$, it's the fact that for decades X-Men have had better written stories combined with more compelling characters. 

 

[Chillax23]

5 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

There is a lot of truth to this. 

My position, as a collector, will always be IH1 >X1.  IH1 was a book I plotted and planned for. Sold books and saved $$ to get. It was a big deal. 

But as a comic fan, X-Men were a much bigger part of my childhood.  That was why I commented earlier about younger collectors caring more about X-Men than Hulk.  That's what my generation grew up with. That's what we talked about at school and remembered (I'm 38 for reference).  

For the record, I agree with everyone @Pantodude said. He's 100% right.  IH1 is a much more important book. JIM83 and TOS39 are all books I enjoy and prioritized above X1. 

But I also understand why we are seeing the momentum. It's not just speculation $$, it's the fact that for decades X-Men have had better written stories combined with more compelling characters. 

 

Interesting - and I also grew up with the X-Men being the main draw (and am also 38).

Why do you say that IH1 is and always will be the more important book - is it based on it being first and therefore having more impact on Marvel's history and evolution?  Would you also put FF1 ahead of AF15 and Marvel Comics 1 ahead of Cap 1?

[october]

If you are an X-Men fan from the 80's, the grail should be GSXM 1. It's the team (Wolverine mostly) that made them popular. UXM 1 has the first Magneto, but the intro of the original team wasn't some world changing event. Remember that stretch where the title was almost cancelled and they ran reprints? GSXM 1 changed that comic's weak populairty. 

Hulk 1, on the other hand, is Hulk 1. Yeah, he is grey, but the things that made him great are there from issue 1. 

[kimik]

1 minute ago, KCOComics said:

There is a lot of truth to this. 

My position, as a collector, will always be IH1 >X1.  IH1 was a book I plotted and planned for. Sold books and saved $$ to get. It was a big deal. 

But as a comic fan, X-Men were a much bigger part of my childhood.  That was why I commented earlier about younger collectors caring more about X-Men than Hulk.  That's what my generation grew up with. That's what we talked about at school and remembered (I'm 38 for reference).  

For the record, I agree with everyone @Pantodude said. He's 100% right.  IH1 is a much more important book. JIM83 and TOS39 are all books I enjoy and prioritized above X1. 

But I also understand why we are seeing the momentum. It's not just speculation $$, it's the fact that for decades X-Men have had better written stories combined with more compelling characters.  

Collecting views are a generational thing, which is why older collectors view FF 1 as the most important Marvel book while the majority of post-1970 collectors would view AF 15, and likely ASM 1 as well, as being the most important. It was not that long ago that Dell Disney books were considered the most valuable in the hobby. 

I have owned multiple copies of every Marvel SA key except for FF 1. The reason - the FF have been an insignificant property for my entire collecting lifespan so there was no need. I did not chase Hulk 1 either, but landed a few copies in collections that I promptly sold, for the same reason. For me, Hulk 181 >>>>>>>>>> Hulk 1 due to Wolverine being the mainstay of the X-Men. For older collectors, it is definitely Hulk 1. 

[kimik]

9 minutes ago, october said:

If you are an X-Men fan from the 80's, the grail should be GSXM 1. It's the team (Wolverine mostly) that made them popular. UXM 1 has the first Magneto, but the intro of the original team wasn't some world changing event. Remember that stretch where the title was almost cancelled and they ran reprints? GSXM 1 changed that comic's weak populairty. 

Hulk 1, on the other hand, is Hulk 1. Yeah, he is grey, but the things that made him great are there from issue 1. 

If you are an X-Men fan from the 80s, you want both GSX 1 and X-Men 1. 

Hulk and FF have been in an decline in popularity for 40+ years now. Hulk 1 is still Hulk 1, but the character's significance in the eyes of new collectors is not what it once was, even with the Universal solo and Avengers team movies featuring him. 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by kimik

[littledoom]

Hulk 1 appeals to the horror completionists  

[silversurfer275]

this might be a little unpopular but I think x men is more important. Now don't get me wrong hulk 1 is super important but the x men 1 is the 1st of many important characters, the first of a super popular villain and its the first appearance of a team that's been around for a very long time. I think what makes x men 1 important is its the 1st x men its kinda like avengers 1 where there's no 1st appearances but its the 1st of the team but .X men 1 has that and a ton of super important 1st appearances And also to add on all of that it’s also the 1st appearance of the mutants.And now for the mcu of course hulk is still around but his story at this point is complete and the mcu are gonna want the mutants to be a big thing for a long time. And I think that will push x men 1 even higher. Now dont get me wrong I think both of these comics are great but I just think x men 1 has more of an impact. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by silversurfer275

[bpc3qh]

2 hours ago, KCOComics said:

Good luck with your pursuit. I'm sure things will level off and even retract a bit.  If not, I'll sell you my 2.0 for $78k in 18 months (assuming it keeps trending the same way). 

Wow, an under-GPA sale! Thanks, I appreciate it.

[Sweet Lou 14]

1 hour ago, Pantodude said:

I hear you Chillax23, all good points.  But your comments about AF15 suggest you are missing the point regarding what I said about X-Men #1 relative to IH1.  I was referring to "relative importance to Marvel's comic book roots".   FF1 is more important than AF15 in that respect, tor the same reasons that FF1 and IH1 and JIM83 will forever be more important than X-Men #1 to Marvel's comic book roots.   Popularity changes over time, and depends on catalysts more often than not.  But history cannot be (or at least should not be) rewritten.  Any book could become the flavor of the day, although to be fair any of the books we are talking could be the flavors of the century.  That is all I am saying.  

I think you're 100% right that we should not rewrite history.  The question of which books had which levels of importance at the time they were published should be settled and indisputable.  For example, it shouldn't be the least bit controversial to say that it's likely none of the other Marvel books would have existed without FF #1, or that the introduction of Spider-Man in AF #15 cemented something truly unique and special about Marvel superhero characters that permeated the entire line and influenced everything that came after.  X-Men, on the other hand, was (at the time) a more derivative and unspectacular book, less influential on the other Marvel Silver Age material than its peer books.  It was, rightly, a lower-tier book alongside Daredevil or Tales to Astonish.

So when you say that Hulk #181 or GSX #1 are more "important" than X-Men #1, I get what you're saying.  Each of those books was much more immediately influential on the rest of Marvel's output and what came after.  I don't think anyone would dispute that.

Now, with all of that said, it's not rewriting history for the perception of X-Men #1 to change over time, when viewed through the lens of the present day.  Because of the mammoth success of the X-Men since their relaunch in 1975 and their very successful movie / cartoon franchise, we can draw a line back to X-Men #1 and assign it greater importance than it had at the time.  The same goes for the emergence of Magneto (over the decades) as a top-3 villain across the entire Marvel Universe, or the way Marvel so expertly developed the concept of mutants (long after X-Men #1) as a metaphor for teenage angst, the marginalized and oppressed, and anyone who just wishes they could be understood and loved on their own terms.  All of those things elevate X-Men #1 in hindsight.

To take an extreme, hypothetical, intentionally goofy example, if somehow Marvel built a wildly successful film franchise around Unus the Untouchable that spawned 10 sequels and a couple dozen Academy Awards, you can bet that X-Men #8 would become an incredibly "important" book.  But nobody could say that the book had any special significance or importance at the time it was published.