Silver age comics that are heating up 26 26

[jimjum12]

Keys were determined somewhat differently when most collectors were focusing on assembling runs of their favorite characters and titles. Keys existed within the context of what an individual was actively collecting. An Aquaman fan would have no problem considering SC 30 to be a Key....... but in the last 10 years or so we have seen the increased focus on collecting Keys only..... and in this regard, some additional discrimination has become necessary from a variety of standpoints and motivations. Every longtime collector of SA D.C.'s I've ever known has always considered the Showcase appearances to be necessary to the completion of their runs..... and since they predate the actual run, they are, as Jay says, notable. In the truest sense of the term "Key", including most of them in the same group as the OPG Top 10 is certainly inaccurate. The book is Key to the collector...... but not Key in the "USA Today" mindset. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

...... for many years the Showcase title was considered to be a run of "Keys".

Edited May 3, 2015 by jimjum12

[Jaydogrules]

As a supporting character in BB 28. Think about a character who survived the decline of the superhero era only to be denied starring in his own book for 2 decades! SC 30 is the book that gives the new generation of SA collectors the first exclusive Aquaman book. The further success of the tryout SC Aquaman books led to Aquaman 1- Aquaman would probably have shown up somewhere with Cave Carson had his SC appearances resulted in poor sales.

 

J, you know how I feel about the movie hype baloney- I've never purchased a SA key because there's a movie coming out in the next two or three decades.

 

I think notable is a good way to define the book but it does so only if we limit the significance of a Tryout Book. Defining a SA Tryout book is the crux of the issue here- sometime we as collectors need to look at context when defining a book's significance. SC 30 is another way and reason why the SC series was the greatest SA run (and in the opinion of this Marvel guy- greatest run in the history of the American Comic Book)- among all the great 1st apps., re-intros, is a Try Out book of a lame character that chugged along from the GA through the great assault on the comic book to finally appear as a founding member on the cover of DC's greatest SA team.

 

Comes back to what I've said before- this place would be boring if everyone always agreed on the same things.

 

I wish I could say the same.

 

-J.

 

I refuse to believe that about you!!

 

I know, right. I knew little to nothing of Dr. Strange before that movie hype started percolating. Then I went and jumped on the bandwagon and "over-paid" for an ST 110. I have since developed a greater appreciation for the character and his pedigree, but yeah, I will never do that again.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

Keys were determined somewhat differently when most collectors were focusing on assembling runs of their favorite characters and titles. Keys existed within the context of what an individual was actively collecting. An Aquaman fan would have no problem considering SC 30 to be a Key....... but in the last 10 years or so we have seen the increased focus on collecting Keys only..... and in this regard, some additional discrimination has become necessary from a variety of standpoints and motivations. Every longtime collector of SA D.C.'s I've ever known has always considered the Showcase appearances to be necessary to the completion of their runs..... and since they predate the actual run, they are, as Jay says, notable. In the truest sense of the term "Key", including most of them in the same group as the OPG Top 10 is certainly inaccurate. The book is Key to the collector...... but not Key in the "USA Today" mindset. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

...... for many years the Showcase title was considered to be a run of "Keys".

 

+1

 

To all of it. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[MusterMark]

Keys were determined somewhat differently when most collectors were focusing on assembling runs of their favorite characters and titles. Keys existed within the context of what an individual was actively collecting. An Aquaman fan would have no problem considering SC 30 to be a Key....... but in the last 10 years or so we have seen the increased focus on collecting Keys only..... and in this regard, some additional discrimination has become necessary from a variety of standpoints and motivations. Every longtime collector of SA D.C.'s I've ever known has always considered the Showcase appearances to be necessary to the completion of their runs..... and since they predate the actual run, they are, as Jay says, notable. In the truest sense of the term "Key", including most of them in the same group as the OPG Top 10 is certainly inaccurate. The book is Key to the collector...... but not Key in the "USA Today" mindset. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

...... for many years the Showcase title was considered to be a run of "Keys".

 

I absolutely (still) regard Showcase as a title of keys. An amazing, amazing title.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lazyboy]

I got Showcase 30 a long time ago. Have always thought of it as a key.

Movie, schmoovie, I couldn't care less.

There is no retcon, there is no bamboozling, not towards me. Sorry.

 

Congrats..?

 

No sure what this has to do with anything?

 

I was trying to reply to your other post, but it is now dust in the wind. Probably for the best, since you don't want such silliness leaving a stain on your posting legacy.

 

Anyway, you were searching for consensus. That's easy. Collectors have spoken with their wallets, and Showcase #30 is, at the very least, a minor key.

 

Why is Hulk #181 considered a more important key than #180? Money. That's the consensus. Sure, there are specific reasons that people used when the majority chose #181. They are the opposite reasons people used when they decided on the key Doomsday and Darkseid appearances. The consensus is often arbitrary. Why is Batman #227 considered a key? Batman #251? How about a Hulk vs. Thor battle from 1973, nearly a decade after they first fought? None of these feature a first appearance of note. Yet they all command a premium.

 

So what is our clearest indicator of what collectors consider to be key? How they choose to spend their money.

 

This consensus you seek doesn't really help your argument.

 

So what else is heating up on eBay besides the white hot juggernaut that is Showcase #30? Are the still affordable Dr. Strange books about to get another bump as more movie info is made available?

 

 

 

 

Unless you keep the keys to your home or vehicle in your wallet instead of on a keychain, there is no connection between wallets and keys.

 

Prices are a function of supply and demand. Demand is not solely influenced by "keyness" and supply is something else entirely.

 

Not that I'm arguing against Showcase 30. The first solo Aquaman book is certainly significant.

[markseifert]

...... for many years the Showcase title was considered to be a run of "Keys".

 

+1

 

To all of it. (thumbs u

 

Yeah, +2.

 

I think part of the debate here is that Showcase IS pretty much a run of keys, and so from our perspective 50+ years later, past the first couple years some of the individual issues feel just a little less special. Even though they are still very important.

 

But once they got to #4 (through about #40 I guess) they locked in on the direction they needed to go and got their mojo going. If they'd had more misfires after #4 -- mixed a few more Frogmen and Kings of the Wild in there with Green Lantern and Aquaman -- the hits would stand out more.

 

But they didn't. As it is, they had about a 6 year stretch there which is legendary for good reason.

 

 

[Petey's Wheatcake]

 

Unless you keep the keys to your home or vehicle in your wallet instead of on a keychain, there is no connection between wallets and keys.

 

Prices are a function of supply and demand. Demand is not solely influenced by "keyness" and supply is something else entirely.

 

Not that I'm arguing against Showcase 30. The first solo Aquaman book is certainly significant.

 

I get what you are saying, but we could probably spend another ten pages analyzing the various criteria by which collectors define the keys in their collection.

 

Most collectors lean pretty heavily on the OPG lists as a quick reference for the important keys of the various ages. Lists based on value.

 

Incredible Hulk #181 is absolutely considered a more important key than #180. It could very easily be the other way around. In fact, I listed a couple examples where it actually is the other way around. There is no hard and fast, universally accepted rule regarding cameo vs. first full appearance vs. first cover appearance, etc. In these instances, the most sought after issue is the one that's worth more.

 

What about classic covers? How do we decide? It's subjective. Yet many people still refer to them as keys. The closest we can come to a consensus regarding these issues is by looking at which books sell for more than others.

 

The key Sgt. Rock book has changed over the years, and the value of Our Army at War #83 reflects this. I think this is a great example, because it shows how the definition of what is considered key isn't that easy to pin down.

 

Like I said earlier, it's arbitrary. The best way to gauge consensus is by scrutinizing what people spend their money on. As far as my own collection is concerned, I don't really care how other people choose to spend their money unless it's going to cost me $$$ in the long run. I was only discussing that topic because someone asked me a question. So basically, what I'm saying is that there doesn't have to be a connection, in my own personal collection there isn't a connection, I respect that you don't think there should be a connection, but as far as the majority of the community is concerned, there most definitely IS a connection. Maybe that will change someday. For now, it's all about the Benjamins.

 

[BarryAllen]

So basically, what I'm saying is that there doesn't have to be a connection, in my own personal collection there isn't a connection, I respect that you don't think there should be a connection, but as far as the majority of the community is concerned, there most definitely IS a connection.

 

This is like, a really really long sentence....

 

Confection

Section

Election

Selection

Rejection

Projection

Reflection

Intersection

[Rip]

Let's try this again because there is some misinformation re Adv 260, SC 30 and Aqua 1. [iNSERT DEAD HORSE BEING BEATEN EMOTICON HERE]. I hope this is helpful.

 

Adventure 260 = First Silver Age origin of Aquaman. Not a first appearance issue, but a material revamp of the character's origin. Is this issue important and collectible? Yes. The degree of "keyness" is for debate. Personally, I consider it a semi-key and a darn cool book to have. It's a book that if you see it in a long box, you don't disregard it.

 

Showcase 30 = a retelling (not a reprinting) of the origin from Adventure 260, and more importantly, the first time Aquaman ever gets his own full-length comic book. It is a tryout issue to see if the kids are willing to pony up a dime or 12 cents to buy an Aquaman-only comic. Like Adventure 260, it is published by DC during their late 50s/early 60s Silver Age superhero renaissance, where Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, JSA (JLA) and Atom are revamped or dusted off from their Golden Age shelf. Is this issue important and collectible? Yes. Personally, I consider it an important semi-key and a darn cool book to have. It's a book that if you see it in a long box, you don't disregard it.

 

Aquaman 1 = the character's first title book. A number 1. Not a first appearance. Personally, I consider it a minor semi-key and no more important than Iron Man 1, which I don't consider that important but the market goes nuts over it. Having said that, it's a book that if you see in a long box, you don't disregard it.

 

Great post (thumbs u

 

[CrocHntr]

Let's try this again because there is some misinformation re Adv 260, SC 30 and Aqua 1. [iNSERT DEAD HORSE BEING BEATEN EMOTICON HERE]. I hope this is helpful.

 

Adventure 260 = First Silver Age origin of Aquaman. Not a first appearance issue, but a material revamp of the character's origin. Is this issue important and collectible? Yes. The degree of "keyness" is for debate. Personally, I consider it a semi-key and a darn cool book to have. It's a book that if you see it in a long box, you don't disregard it.

 

Showcase 30 = a retelling (not a reprinting) of the origin from Adventure 260, and more importantly, the first time Aquaman ever gets his own full-length comic book. It is a tryout issue to see if the kids are willing to pony up a dime or 12 cents to buy an Aquaman-only comic. Like Adventure 260, it is published by DC during their late 50s/early 60s Silver Age superhero renaissance, where Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, JSA (JLA) and Atom are revamped or dusted off from their Golden Age shelf. Is this issue important and collectible? Yes. Personally, I consider it an important semi-key and a darn cool book to have. It's a book that if you see it in a long box, you don't disregard it.

 

Aquaman 1 = the character's first title book. A number 1. Not a first appearance. Personally, I consider it a minor semi-key and no more important than Iron Man 1, which I don't consider that important but the market goes nuts over it. Having said that, it's a book that if you see in a long box, you don't disregard it.

 

 

I agree that maybe semi-key (?) is the right term for these. And I'd certainly rank them in order of importance just like you have them (SA Origin first, then "Aquaman tryout", then 1st issue of ongoing). I'd think eventually the market will elevate Adv 260 to the top of the list from a desirability (and $) perspective, but they all three have plenty to offer in terms of importance (though the application of the term "key" is and will continue to be debatable).

[Silver]

I am going to continue to resist the idea that Adventure 260 is a reboot. They constantly added canon to the silver age heroes, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Superboy. Maybe none more than Superboy/Superman. There was never a silver age reboot.

 

Was learning that Superman's Kryptonian name is Kal-el in Superman 113 make that a reboot? There was no reboot of Aquaman. They just filled in the missing blanks, like they did with the others continuously published super-heroes.

 

Adventure 260...origin of Aquaman. That's it, not his first silver age appearance, not a reboot.

[kimik]

Well, I put in a stink bid of $250 on the Adventure #260 (graded at 5.0 but looks more 4.0 to me) that ended on Heritage tonight to test the theory as to whether the book was heating up and considered more key than SC #30 or Aquaman #1. I was not expecting to win with such a low bid, but I did end up with it for $220 = $262.90 with the BP.

 

Now I really hope it heats up a bit so I can actually sell it for a profit as I do not need this copy.

Edited May 4, 2015 by kimik

[HighStakesComics]

I can't sell a 260 to save my life. That 5.0 sale doesn't bode well for my raw 4.0.

 

Anyone know what's up with Flash 123? It's always been a tough book but I've been aggressive the last few auctions only to come away with crushed dreams. Is Earth-2 in contention for the big screen?

[divad]

Well, I put in a stink bid of $250 on the Adventure #260 (graded at 5.0 but looks more 4.0 to me) that ended on Heritage tonight to test the theory as to whether the book was heating up and considered more key than SC #30 or Aquaman #1. I was not expecting to win with such a low bid, but I did end up with it for $220 = $262.90 with the BP.

 

Now I really hope it heats up a bit so I can actually sell it for a profit as I do not need this copy.

 

Thanks for the valid market research though . . .

[skypinkblu]

I posted this in the Wonder Woman thread in gold, but technically it's silver..

 

The whole spine is taped...the other copies are going pretty high as well, including all the color touched ones.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wonder-Woman-98-Color-Touch-Tape-1st-Silver-Age-App-New-Origin-DC-1958-GD-/361281720355?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541e119023

[Silver]

It's really gotten insane...

 

I need to find the arbitrary first silver age issue of Sugar and Spike that retells their origin with new facts before things get too out of hand.

[skypinkblu]

This one isn't her origin (and she has a few different ones, so it's really insane)...and it went pretty high as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wonder-Woman-102-Color-Touch-o-w-Nice-Silver-Age-DC-Comic-1958-App-VG-/361281721728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541e119580&nma=true&si=3WIudAClZT%252B60XjGNf01scOIk3U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Rip]

If we're saying Adventure 260 is Aquaman's origin story, you and I agree. If you're saying it is any kind of first appearance, we are in disagreement.

 

I'm saying it fits the definition (and time-frame) of a Silver Age reboot, and that MF 73 Aquaman and Adv 260 Aquaman are demonstrably different characters.

 

If anybody has a better idea of what the first appearance of "Adv 260 Aquaman" could be, I love good theories about this stuff. (thumbs u

 

That said, I don't agree it's Adv 229, and think that's been arbitrarily chosen because it has the same cover-date as Showcase 4.

 

Are there noteworthy additions to the Aquaman canon between MF 73 and Adv 260?

 

edit to add -- reading through the entire Fradon era would probably be somewhat useful. I should do that at some point.

 

It's the best guess for a first Silver age appearance, but one of the main differences is that he hung around with Superboy AS Aqualad as a boy. So that would put him on squarely on Earth one.

In addition;

Knowing his mothers heritage and gaining telepathic abilities. (Rather than just communicating with the sea creatures)

Aquaman's power was born given rather than through learning the scientific secrets from his father.

Golden age Aquaman had no name either.

 

 

The only noteworthy addition between MF 73 and Adv 260 is that his weakness was first given to him in issue 256. Being out of water for one hour will kill him.

 

Edit: oh and that Topo (his sidekick) first came in Adventure Comics #229

 

Edited May 4, 2015 by Rip

[Rip]

This one isn't her origin (and she has a few different ones, so it's really insane)...and it went pretty high as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wonder-Woman-102-Color-Touch-o-w-Nice-Silver-Age-DC-Comic-1958-App-VG-/361281721728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541e119580&nma=true&si=3WIudAClZT%252B60XjGNf01scOIk3U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Wow whats the deal there

[kimik]

I can't sell a 260 to save my life. That 5.0 sale doesn't bode well for my raw 4.0.

 

Anyone know what's up with Flash 123? It's always been a tough book but I've been aggressive the last few auctions only to come away with crushed dreams. Is Earth-2 in contention for the big screen?

 

I am going to take this one to local shows and see if it moves.

 

As much as people may want to argue which book is "the most key SA Aquaman book", the market seems to be speaking loud and clear so far........