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Silver age comics that are heating up
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4,098 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, Roger66 said:

For those of you who haven't guessed or intuitively figured out by now, there is a lot of new money being parked in the collectible market.  Covid19 factors including rich folk not spending money on travel, fine wines, expensive dinners, clothing etc - are looking to park their money in collectibles.  What we are experiencing feels unprecedented for sure.  It is very easy if not simple to sit on the sidelines and call this a bubble ready to burst as opposed to continuing to collect and enjoy your comics.  Only time will tell where this hobby will be in a year or more - only time and not peanut gallery predictions.  My 2 cents is I am sitting with what I have collected and doubtfully buying any books at today's prices.  My cautionary advice for anyone starting off in this hobby as a SA collector of keys or those trying to claw back their long gone Silver Age Marvel Keys - is don't right now - move on and watch - the train has left the station and may or may not one day return.  Here is an excellent recent article in the NY Times that illuminates this further.  :preach:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/20/style/spending-rich-people.html?action=click&module=Features&pgtype=Homepage

Agree with some of the comments about the influx of new money, but I do think there are still some good opportunities for collectors to pick up some keys at affordable prices.  Sitting on the sidelines definitely will make sense for some and I absolutely would not recommend speculating in comics with your rent/mortgage money.  But if you have extra disposable income and are feeling nostalgic about comics, buying a lower grade TOS 57 (1st Hawkeye), Avengers 9 (1st Wonderman), or even a Strange Tales 110 or Sgt. Fury 1 would make sense as a long-term investment.  But if you are looking for a big profit in the short-term, this can be a game of hot potato with someone likely getting burned.  

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I wonder how many "in-progress" Silver Age collectors (people with bigger key books still on their want lists) will give up the hobby as a result of what's going on right now?

Unless there's a decent downtick in prices after this craziness ends, I'd assume some (a lot?) of these collectors will have a hard time fulfilling their want lists in the future.

For example, if you're trying to put together a Spidey run of #1-50 but are missing issues #1, #3, #4, #13 and #15, do you:

  • Wait things out and hope prices dip?
  • Try to buy these books now?
  • Accept the fact that you'll never complete this run and be happy with the books you have?
  • Sell while the market's hot?
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7 minutes ago, Shrevvy said:

There is an entire thread in comics general that was started with that NYT article. The article itself is junk. There may be some truth in there, but the article lacks focus. It jumps around starting with $90k earrings and $69 mm NFT art, but ends with the last third about a guy making $4k on a Slack stock trade and investing in Pokemon on Rally Road. The article is not about "bored rich people" as the title states. It reads as if they had the conclusion in mind and found the examples to justify the headline. 

I concur. I thought the article was a damn mess.  

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55 minutes ago, ft88 said:

For every 90s collector getting priced out, there are three to five 2020 nerds/collectors/investors who made it rich with tech stocks, bitcoin, or other 1%-er type funny money.  And paying $100k for a high grade SA spiderman seems like a blue chip investment.  Comics seem to be second place (to sports cards)in what is arguably a massive runup on collectibles prices.  coins, stampls, classic cars, art prints,, and many other collectibles are not participating at the same level as comics and trading cards.  

Like all runups, this will run out of steam and eventually drift down.  But it could happen from a much higher level than we're at now.  We just don't know.

Ed

 

 

You're forgetting sealed NES/SNES video games (thumbsu.  Prices still going up in practically every time Heritage has an auction. The same grade of that game getting trump to a higher sale a few months later. I'd put comics and video games as neck and neck #2 spot.  Sports cards I believe has already plateaued and coming down slowly (looking at some premier cards such as the 1986 fleer jordan, 2003 chrome lebron, etc.)

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7 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I think I'm an example of this kind of collector -- I set out in 2017 to assemble CGC-certified high-grade runs of pretty much the entire Marvel Silver Age and Bronze Age catalog.  It was a very daunting project but I have enjoyed it immensely.  And I am very, very happy to say that I have come very close to completing my goal.  So I'm not in a total panic about current prices and I'm willing to be patient because I did something pretty smart (if I do say so myself) in the last year or so -- for several books that I hadn't found in my target grade, I got in at a grade I could be happy with so at least I could say the runs are complete.

So to take two titles as examples ...

Amazing Spider-Man

I bought an AF 15 5.0 in 2017, which in hindsight was really not a good time to buy.  But my copy has no Marvel chipping -- I believe it truly qualifies as a "nice" 5.0.  I'm pretty sure it's more or less flat since I bought it, but I haven't been watching prices actively.  I sometimes toy with the idea of upgrading to 6.0.

My #1 is a 7.5, I think about getting up to 8.0.  I don't think I would mind the money it would cost to make that move, but I'm also fine standing pat.

My goal was to have #2 through #5 in 9.0 ... but #2 is really tough to find.  Very glad I grabbed an 8.0 that I'm happy with -- the rest are 9.0.

My original goal was for #6 through #10 in 9.0 as well, and I reached that goal.  But then I got a bit more ambitious and picked up #6, 8, and 10 in 9.4.  I haven't found #7 and #9 and I imagine those would cost dearly in 9.4 ... so again I will pick and choose and be willing to stand pat if prices are too crazy.

#11 is a beast in high grade -- I was smart enough to get an 8.0 which is tough enough to find.  Would love a 9.4 and would "settle" for a 9.0 but only if the price is right.

The target for #12-100 is 9.4, and I filled that in with just one exception, #13 which I have in 9.0.  Again, very glad I "settled" there.  I also have a wish to upgrade my #24 which is 9.4 CR/OW, the only book in the run that isn't at least OW/W.  But even before this crazy run-up, copies I went after at auction were selling for what I thought were ridiculous prices so I have laid off.  On the other hand, for a long time I had a 9.0 WP copy of #28 and was really stubborn about refusing to pay the price for a 9.4, until I just went ahead and did it.  It was painful but I'm glad in retrospect.

(Side note, I fantasize about a perfectly centered 9.6 WP copy of #50 but forget it, I don't need that headache.)

For #101-150, I have had 9.4 for a while.  Last year I decided to go after 9.6 WP, and I am extremely happy that I landed most of the keys (e.g. #121, 122, and 129) before things went nuts.  In the case of #129 I sold my 9.4 for 2/3 of what I paid for my 9.6 which I consider an excellent ratio -- I always worry the ratio will be 2:1 rather than the 3:2 I was able to pull off.  However, #101 is still sitting out there and I am firmly committed to holding off on this one -- frankly I am not a believer in Morbius as a character and I'm just going to sit tight for a while.

I've had #151-200 in 9.6 WP for a while.  I gave some thought to going up to 9.8 WP, but I abandoned the idea.  Not worth it IMHO.  I thought about making an exception for #194 and then my OCD wouldn't allow it.  lol

For #201-400, my original strategy was keys only (#238, 252, 265, all the McFarlanes, and 361) in 9.6 or 9.8 WP.  But then I just went ahead and got all 200 issues in 9.8 WP.  I remember well the days when I bought my #300 for $2,000 -- at the time this book was regarded as a truly "stable" commodity with a more or less fixed price.  I sure am glad I'm not trying to buy one now!

The annuals follow a similar pattern:  #1 in 9.0, #2-7 in 9.4, #8-13 in 9.6, and #14-28 in 9.8.  I don't imagine myself realistically upgrading the #1.  My #9 is still 9.4 and I would like a 9.6, but again I see stupid prices and I walk away because this is simply not an important book.

Fantastic Four

Similar to my ASM run, here's the deal in a nutshell.

#1 is a really nice 7.0.  I'd had the chance to buy an 8.0 a year earlier and I passed because the price was "too high."  I would have been setting a new GPA high had a bought it.  Looking back, that was a miss.

For #2-10, the goal is 9.0.  I have all of them in grade except for #3 and #4 in 8.0.  Very glad I got those 8.0s, and still interested in upgrading.  I thought recently about trying to get #6-10 in 9.4, but watched some auctions and decided the prices were more than I wanted to pay.  I feel good about standing pat.

For #11-115, the goal is 9.4, and I'm finished with three exceptions in 9.0:  #11, #18, and #32.  #11 is a very tough book and I originally settled for 8.0 but then upgraded to 9.0 successfully.  #18 sometimes shows up in 9.4 but always with bad PQ.  I have no idea why #32 is so hard to find but I only very recently grabbed the 9.0 off MyComicShop just to say I was done with the run.

I recently decided to upgrade my 20-cent issues across a whole bunch of titles, including FF, to 9.6 WP.  So I have a little quest going to upgrade #116-154 and it's gone well.  Yes, these books are selling for more than they used to and yes, there are some highly annoying eBay sellers trying to gouge Bronze Age collectors on books that let's face it are truly unremarkable.  But I pick my spots and I stay patient.

Finally, I have Annual #1 in 8.5 and Annual #2 in 9.0, plus Annual #3-12 in 9.4.  I would like to upgrade those annuals (at least get #1 up to 9.0) but they don't come around often and who knows what kind of prices people will ask for given that one has Namor and the other has Doom.  But we'll see.

That is probably WAAAAAY more information than you wanted but, just to contribute to this conversation with as much as I can bring to it, I thought I would share.  Hope that provides some interesting perspective from one collector.

Wow, that's an incredibly impressive achievement considering you just started out in 2017...thanks for sharing! (worship)

I've been at this for 20 (almost 21) years and have only completed a few mini runs...I generally prefer to buy mid- to high-grade raw books and am pretty picky, hence the slowness in my accomplishments. :smile:

To share my perspective on one title in my collection, here's something I'm considering depending on how the market changes...

I currently have a want list for mini runs of most of the big Marvel and DC titles, and FF #1-60 is on this list...I've had a hard time finding FF issues under #20 (I have #20-60), so I'm considering getting my run slabbed and selling it (probably right before the MCU FF movie comes out :smile:) to help get the few books I need in some of my more completed runs (I need Spidey #1-3 and #5 to have #1-102 and X-Men #1 and #3 to have #1-66).

It would be hard to get rid of FF #48-50 and #52, but waiting on the MCU FF movie would give me time to change my mind and keep them should the market shift away from the craziness we're experiencing now.

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1 minute ago, silverseeker said:

Wow, that's an incredibly impressive achievement considering you just started out in 2017...thanks for sharing! (worship)

Just to be clear, I started with a very solid raw collection, so some of the books in my slabbed collection (though not nearly enough) are simply my old raw copies.  But I owned none of the mega keys.  I had 9.0 copies of ASM #7 and #14 (the #14 is now upgraded) and I had 9.4 copies of GSX #1 and Hulk #181.  All the big keys, I had to go get.  It was ... a lot.

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37 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I think I'm an example of this kind of collector -- I set out in 2017 to assemble CGC-certified high-grade runs of pretty much the entire Marvel Silver Age and Bronze Age catalog.  It was a very daunting project but I have enjoyed it immensely.  And I am very, very happy to say that I have come very close to completing my goal.  So I'm not in a total panic about current prices and I'm willing to be patient because I did something pretty smart (if I do say so myself) in the last year or so -- for several books that I hadn't found in my target grade, I got in at a grade I could be happy with so at least I could say the runs are complete.

So to take two titles as examples ...

Amazing Spider-Man

I bought an AF 15 5.0 in 2017, which in hindsight was really not a good time to buy.  But my copy has no Marvel chipping -- I believe it truly qualifies as a "nice" 5.0.  I'm pretty sure it's more or less flat since I bought it, but I haven't been watching prices actively.  I sometimes toy with the idea of upgrading to 6.0.

My #1 is a 7.5, I think about getting up to 8.0.  I don't think I would mind the money it would cost to make that move, but I'm also fine standing pat.

My goal was to have #2 through #5 in 9.0 ... but #2 is really tough to find.  Very glad I grabbed an 8.0 that I'm happy with -- the rest are 9.0.

My original goal was for #6 through #10 in 9.0 as well, and I reached that goal.  But then I got a bit more ambitious and picked up #6, 8, and 10 in 9.4.  I haven't found #7 and #9 and I imagine those would cost dearly in 9.4 ... so again I will pick and choose and be willing to stand pat if prices are too crazy.

#11 is a beast in high grade -- I was smart enough to get an 8.0 which is tough enough to find.  Would love a 9.4 and would "settle" for a 9.0 but only if the price is right.

The target for #12-100 is 9.4, and I filled that in with just one exception, #13 which I have in 9.0.  Again, very glad I "settled" there.  I also have a wish to upgrade my #24 which is 9.4 CR/OW, the only book in the run that isn't at least OW/W.  But even before this crazy run-up, copies I went after at auction were selling for what I thought were ridiculous prices so I have laid off.  On the other hand, for a long time I had a 9.0 WP copy of #28 and was really stubborn about refusing to pay the price for a 9.4, until I just went ahead and did it.  It was painful but I'm glad in retrospect.

(Side note, I fantasize about a perfectly centered 9.6 WP copy of #50 but forget it, I don't need that headache.)

For #101-150, I have had 9.4 for a while.  Last year I decided to go after 9.6 WP, and I am extremely happy that I landed most of the keys (e.g. #121, 122, and 129) before things went nuts.  In the case of #129 I sold my 9.4 for 2/3 of what I paid for my 9.6 which I consider an excellent ratio -- I always worry the ratio will be 2:1 rather than the 3:2 I was able to pull off.  However, #101 is still sitting out there and I am firmly committed to holding off on this one -- frankly I am not a believer in Morbius as a character and I'm just going to sit tight for a while.

I've had #151-200 in 9.6 WP for a while.  I gave some thought to going up to 9.8 WP, but I abandoned the idea.  Not worth it IMHO.  I thought about making an exception for #194 and then my OCD wouldn't allow it.  lol

For #201-400, my original strategy was keys only (#238, 252, 265, all the McFarlanes, and 361) in 9.6 or 9.8 WP.  But then I just went ahead and got all 200 issues in 9.8 WP.  I remember well the days when I bought my #300 for $2,000 -- at the time this book was regarded as a truly "stable" commodity with a more or less fixed price.  I sure am glad I'm not trying to buy one now!

The annuals follow a similar pattern:  #1 in 9.0, #2-7 in 9.4, #8-13 in 9.6, and #14-28 in 9.8.  I don't imagine myself realistically upgrading the #1.  My #9 is still 9.4 and I would like a 9.6, but again I see stupid prices and I walk away because this is simply not an important book.

Fantastic Four

Similar to my ASM run, here's the deal in a nutshell.

#1 is a really nice 7.0.  I'd had the chance to buy an 8.0 a year earlier and I passed because the price was "too high" -- I would have been setting a new GPA high had I bought it.  Looking back, that was a miss.

For #2-10, the goal is 9.0.  I have all of them in grade except for #3 and #4 in 8.0.  Very glad I got those 8.0s, and still interested in upgrading.  I thought recently about trying to get #6-10 in 9.4, but watched some auctions and decided the prices were more than I wanted to pay.  I feel good about standing pat.

For #11-115, the goal is 9.4, and I'm finished with three exceptions in 9.0:  #11, #18, and #32.  #11 is a very tough book and I originally settled for 8.0 but then upgraded to 9.0 successfully.  #18 sometimes shows up in 9.4 but always with bad PQ.  I have no idea why #32 is so hard to find but I only very recently grabbed the 9.0 off MyComicShop just to say I was done with the run.

I recently decided to upgrade my 20-cent issues across a whole bunch of titles, including FF, to 9.6 WP.  So I have a little quest going to upgrade #116-154 and it's gone well.  Yes, these books are selling for more than they used to and yes, there are some highly annoying eBay sellers trying to gouge Bronze Age collectors on books that let's face it are truly unremarkable.  But I pick my spots and I stay patient.

Finally, I have Annual #1 in 8.5 and Annual #2 in 9.0, plus Annual #3-12 in 9.4.  I would like to upgrade those annuals (at least get #1 up to 9.0) but they don't come around often and who knows what kind of prices people will ask for given that one has Namor and the other has Doom.  But we'll see.

That is probably WAAAAAY more information than you wanted but, just to contribute to this conversation with as much as I can bring to it, I thought I would share.  Hope that provides some interesting perspective from one collector.

I really enjoyed reading this.  It reminded me of my quest to obtain Amazing Spiderman 1 through 50!

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5 hours ago, Roger66 said:

For those of you who haven't guessed or intuitively figured out by now, there is a lot of new money being parked in the collectible market.  Covid19 factors including rich folk not spending money on travel, fine wines, expensive dinners, clothing etc - are looking to park their money in collectibles. 

Here's what I don't understand. I assume that all these rich people have accountants. Surely, at least one accountant has mentioned that you have to pay 28% on the profit from the sale of a collectible. How are these rich people going to feel when they try to sell their X-Men #1 for twice what they paid for, and then find out they have to give almost a third of it to the government?

So let's say someone invested $78,000 to purchase an X-Men #1 CGC 9.0. Even though I find this hard to believe, let's say the price doubles within a year. So, their profit from the sale of this books would be $56,160 rather than $78,000. This is still a large amount of money, but some of these rich people are going to be disappointed because their return on investment isn't as high as they expected.

They would be better off investing in stocks or index funds, because they only have to pay 15% on the profits. More likely 20%, for if you have more than $469,051 in income, your capital gains tax increases from 15% to 20%. Granted, the stock market is not going to double within a year, but it's still food for thought....

And I'm not sure if you can avoid this tax by purchasing another collectible with the money. My guess is probably not.

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I imagine, not all collectible sales are reported.

I know some view some of these purchases different.

If I invest 1k in something that gives me an enormous gain, say 1K in Bitcoin turns to 50K. If I buy a 25K comic, my initial capital outlay was $500. I am spending 2017 money and buying into the 2021 market. At least in my head that is how I justify buying certain high priced items and my wife tends to be more understanding when I start pulling out statements.  I know my portfolio was on fire and has now been up and down of late, I could see folks grabbing some profits and shifting while the market settles back down.

Edited by PKJ
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Yeah I guess my comment wasn't really aimed at any post here, but I've seen in a few places where someone has said the craziness we are seeing now is bad for the hobby over all, somehow.

And I don't agree. A tiny, tiny % of all the comics ever made are being impacted by the wild price coaster we are seeing, and there are a gazillion different ways to collect that don't revolve around whats happening with the big keys or even the minor keys suffering from MCU madness.

It DOES stink for those of us who've had some of the big books on our wish lists, but who haven't quite been able to nail them down yet. 

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