Beginning of Bull Market for Comic Books

[FineCollector]

The coattail effect of comic book films and TVs shows continues to draw new groups of comic book fans into cons and local shops. At this con I attended last weekend, I overheard a late teens-ish female buyer asking a dealer, and this is an exact quote: "do you have any Deathstroke?" That right there sums up my point: a buyer that we probably didn't have in our hobby 3+ years ago asking about a C-list character that is in ultra-high demand right now only because a TV show on the CW network has made that character cool

 

The important thing is to note how the dealer responded to her. Did he say:

 

"Good time to be buying, he started in NTT 2, which is a few bucks, but he made appearances throughout that title, and had his own 50 issue series where he deals with his ex-wife's betrayal that you can pick up pretty cheap, before they featured him in Green Arrow and Identity Crisis"

 

Or did he say:

 

"You probably only want the NTT 2, and I'm out. Go look for some cheap issues in the quarter bins"

 

That microcosm will sum up whether the new fans stay or go.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I got one statement to make - flippers flipping to flippers.

 

It is not a good trend for the hobby. It prices books out of the hands of the people who actually care about the hobby.

It is good for the hobby, as it has brought in much new interest and money.

I have been hearing movie speculation has been bad since Daredevil in 2003.

So far the majority of all comic book keys have gone up since 2003.

 

I think why people don`t chase non-keys is just about any Marvel comic book can be read on Marvel Unlimited. No challenge anymore.

At least with a key you got something that many people will covet.

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

The last four people who have expressed interest in my FF 52s have been collectors. They are either rebuilding their collection or fairly new to collecting and I think they A) have a huge love for the character and B) have a feeling that this is one of the books they must have and better to buy it now before it goes up even further as the movie is still well out a ways.

 

Some more specifics on the above plus comments on Tim's post coming from me tonight, I hope.

[rjrjr]

It's pretty much a no-win for dealers right now. If you price these books reasonably, they sell out in a day or two. To have a wall of them on display, one has to price them so high that customers then complain you are a *spoon*. There's very little profit on them either... most of the "hot" issues I get in come from existing customers who have multiple copies stashed away... they sell or trade off one now and then for another "key" they want. But they know what stuff is worth... the percentage I can make off a current "hot" book is small enough it really can't cover overhead costs.

 

It's also probably going to force me to change my 30-year business model. We were always the "discount guys"... and a large part of our business is catering to other dealers. In the "old days", dealers would come in with client want-lists of holes needed to fill their runs. We stocked lots of esoteric stuff... so besides the usual silver-age heroes, dealers would have specialized clients for, say, Joe Palooka, Little Lulu, Rip Hunter, westerns, etc.

 

Now all the dealers want from me are "hot" books and "super-keys".... because that's all their clients want. The problem is... I can sell all those books locally... I don't need to advertise, or set up at shows, or send them to auction... so what's the point of me discounting them to an out-of-town dealer? And if the book cools down even ever-so-slightly... they are no longer interested, at any price. I can't blame them... that's what their customets want.

 

But I'm wondering if the era of dealer-to-dealer sales in coming to an end? Plus, eventually, no one can make a living just dealing in 50 or so "hot" issues at any given moment.

 

Well said Tim, that pretty much sums it up for us over here too.

Had someone in yesterday openly admitting he only wanted first appearances that would go up in value.

This market has self-implosion written all over it.

I disagree and agree.

 

I agree with the non-Marvel stuff having a self-implosion eventually, but disagree with the Marvel keys. I don`t see the Marvel movies losing popularity for a long time.

 

I see the Marvel movies getting even more popular. Current high prices on Marvel keys will seem cheap in 5 years. IMHO.

 

Movie going audiences will eventually tire of Marvel movies and the selling of comics based on characters in these movies will also fade. This is not an open ended bull market. They never are.

 

Keys are like CEOs of organizations. Vastly overrated and vastly overpaid!

[jimjum12]

It's a natural progression with this sort of collectible. Same thing happened with numismatics..... and those keys and world class specimens have fetched north of a million 100's of times now. I'm a Fantastic Four, ASM, Avengers, Hulk, Daredevil, and Thor fan since the 60's..... and it's been sobering to see demand drift away from some of those titles.... but you can't fault people for wanting what they want. I used to laugh at people for going bonkers over IH 181 and NM 98..... but now the laughs on me..... but I took the time to realize that those younger collectors are just as passionate about those books as I was about my SA Marvels. Personally, I always LOVED the Inhumans and Black Panther..... as much as the Silver Surfer. As for mid run non-key GA ?.....this may be blasphemy, but to me, a lot of that stuff is lousy except for the covers..... it doesn't surprise me when people pass @ $200 for VG. This kind of market evolves with the times.... the product has always been about combining fantasy with social commentary ....... and that , too, evolves. If one is in the business of providing people what they want..... they, too, must evolve. I'm very good friends with several shop owners..... it's a seven day a week gig. If misleading and ripping people hadn't become so rampant in the 90's, things may have been different. I worked part time at a shop in the early 90's and we did shows. Dealers from out of town would bring their overstock into your area and dump it for 50 cents, books you still had on your shelves trying to get cover for..... it was dirty. Unfortunately, most of the good guys who survived all that are still dealing with the shock waves from the pump and dump 90's. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[BarryAllen]

I got one statement to make - flippers flipping to flippers.

 

It is not a good trend for the hobby. It prices books out of the hands of the people who actually care about the hobby.

It is good for the hobby, as it has brought in much new interest and money.

I have been hearing movie speculation has been bad since Daredevil in 2003.

So far the majority of all comic book keys have gone up since 2003.

 

I think why people don`t chase non-keys is just about any Marvel comic book can be read on Marvel Unlimited. No challenge anymore.

At least with a key you got something that many people will covet.

 

+1

 

I also really dislike the argument: "books are being priced out of the hands of people who actually care about the hobby." The arrogance, ignorance and contempt that statement exudes is extremely off-putting.

[rjrjr]

It's pretty much a no-win for dealers right now. If you price these books reasonably, they sell out in a day or two. To have a wall of them on display, one has to price them so high that customers then complain you are a *spoon*. There's very little profit on them either... most of the "hot" issues I get in come from existing customers who have multiple copies stashed away... they sell or trade off one now and then for another "key" they want. But they know what stuff is worth... the percentage I can make off a current "hot" book is small enough it really can't cover overhead costs.

 

It's also probably going to force me to change my 30-year business model. We were always the "discount guys"... and a large part of our business is catering to other dealers. In the "old days", dealers would come in with client want-lists of holes needed to fill their runs. We stocked lots of esoteric stuff... so besides the usual silver-age heroes, dealers would have specialized clients for, say, Joe Palooka, Little Lulu, Rip Hunter, westerns, etc.

 

Now all the dealers want from me are "hot" books and "super-keys".... because that's all their clients want. The problem is... I can sell all those books locally... I don't need to advertise, or set up at shows, or send them to auction... so what's the point of me discounting them to an out-of-town dealer? And if the book cools down even ever-so-slightly... they are no longer interested, at any price. I can't blame them... that's what their customets want.

 

But I'm wondering if the era of dealer-to-dealer sales in coming to an end? Plus, eventually, no one can make a living just dealing in 50 or so "hot" issues at any given moment.

 

Well said Tim, that pretty much sums it up for us over here too.

Had someone in yesterday openly admitting he only wanted first appearances that would go up in value.

This market has self-implosion written all over it.

I disagree and agree.

 

I agree with the non-Marvel stuff having a self-implosion eventually, but disagree with the Marvel keys. I don`t see the Marvel movies losing popularity for a long time.

 

I see the Marvel movies getting even more popular. Current high prices on Marvel keys will seem cheap in 5 years. IMHO.

 

Movie going audiences will eventually tire of Marvel movies and the selling of comics based on characters in these movies will also fade. This is not an open ended bull market. They never are.

 

Keys are like CEOs of organizations. Vastly overrated and vastly overpaid!

 

Your first point is likely accurate, not sure on the timeline, but eventually superhero movies will move out of fashion.

 

Your second point and analogy is silly. It doesn't make sense from a comic perspective or a business perspective.

 

It was a joke.

[BarryAllen]

It's pretty much a no-win for dealers right now. If you price these books reasonably, they sell out in a day or two. To have a wall of them on display, one has to price them so high that customers then complain you are a *spoon*. There's very little profit on them either... most of the "hot" issues I get in come from existing customers who have multiple copies stashed away... they sell or trade off one now and then for another "key" they want. But they know what stuff is worth... the percentage I can make off a current "hot" book is small enough it really can't cover overhead costs.

 

It's also probably going to force me to change my 30-year business model. We were always the "discount guys"... and a large part of our business is catering to other dealers. In the "old days", dealers would come in with client want-lists of holes needed to fill their runs. We stocked lots of esoteric stuff... so besides the usual silver-age heroes, dealers would have specialized clients for, say, Joe Palooka, Little Lulu, Rip Hunter, westerns, etc.

 

Now all the dealers want from me are "hot" books and "super-keys".... because that's all their clients want. The problem is... I can sell all those books locally... I don't need to advertise, or set up at shows, or send them to auction... so what's the point of me discounting them to an out-of-town dealer? And if the book cools down even ever-so-slightly... they are no longer interested, at any price. I can't blame them... that's what their customets want.

 

But I'm wondering if the era of dealer-to-dealer sales in coming to an end? Plus, eventually, no one can make a living just dealing in 50 or so "hot" issues at any given moment.

 

Well said Tim, that pretty much sums it up for us over here too.

Had someone in yesterday openly admitting he only wanted first appearances that would go up in value.

This market has self-implosion written all over it.

I disagree and agree.

 

I agree with the non-Marvel stuff having a self-implosion eventually, but disagree with the Marvel keys. I don`t see the Marvel movies losing popularity for a long time.

 

I see the Marvel movies getting even more popular. Current high prices on Marvel keys will seem cheap in 5 years. IMHO.

 

Movie going audiences will eventually tire of Marvel movies and the selling of comics based on characters in these movies will also fade. This is not an open ended bull market. They never are.

 

Keys are like CEOs of organizations. Vastly overrated and vastly overpaid!

 

Your first point is likely accurate, not sure on the timeline, but eventually superhero movies will move out of fashion.

 

It was a joke.

 

:shrug: Missed that one, sorry. I retracted part of my post.

[oldmilwaukee6er]

I wonder how many veteran collectors are contributing to this environment?

 

Say, collectors who once focused on runs suddenly realizing that the bulk of their collection is not going to appreciate in value has they had wanted to believe (and in fact may become a gigantic, difficult to dispose of albatross), so they change gears and pursue only the key books...

 

This captures me to some degree. I started run collecting in the Copper Age- pre-Unity Valiants, Spawn... but mostly my focus was on Independents, non-superhero books. I always liked X-Men, and read the book on and off.

 

Then for a decade I focused soley on underground comix from the 1960s-70s. So in all, I collected for 25+ years and had very little "to show / brag" in the Movie/Con Boom Age- to the average person, or even the average comic collector.

 

So, I began the process of converting a portion of my collection to Silver Age Keys. In part, it was conspicuous consumption in the Boom Age (being a comic collector only carries boom-geek-cache insomuch as one has a BSD superhero book). In part, it's a 90s Era collector/investor wanting to diversify a little from growth to value.

 

In part, it's because I feared if I did not I would be priced out.

[jimjum12]

..... and you would have been..... I wish I had had the foresight.... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[1Cool]

It is also telling to see the impact to former ultra hot movie books. I remember when a X-Men 141 CGC would sell within minutes at a good price ($450 or so) and now they go unsold at the $350 range. What goes up must come down I guess.

[mintcollector]

What goes up must come down I guess.

 

Truer words have never been spoken and this is also the part that most speculators seem to be forgetting. History is an excellent teacher and can be both a friend or an enemy much like time itself.

[white_rushin]

It's crazy comparing the "hot book" prices to other equally awesome books that are being overlooked.

 

Why go for 1st Brother Voodoo for who knows how much right now when you can get a VF Showcase #73 for $20? :shrug:

[Guardian Comics]

It's crazy comparing the "hot book" prices to other equally awesome books that are being overlooked.

 

Why go for 1st Brother Voodoo for who knows how much right now when you can get a VF Showcase #73 for $20? :shrug:

 

Not gonna lie...had to look up what Showcase #73 was.

 

Jim

[thirdgreenham]

What's Showcase 73?

[white_rushin]

1st Creeper! A wonderful Ditko creation.

[roulette44]

andy had to have been joking

[Buzzetta]

What's Showcase 73?

 

I am not really a DC guy... I did not know that. Might pick up a copy in case I decide to start catching up.

[zosocane]

What's Showcase 73?

 

I am not really a DC guy... I did not know that. Might pick up a copy in case I decide to start catching up.

 

Now that you mention it, might be smart to pick up multiple copies of Showcase 73, just in case, you know?

[RockMyAmadeus]

#94? Oh sure, bazillions of dollars.

 

#95? THIRD appearance? Pass.

Fourth appearance. Marvel Team-Up Annual #1 is the third appearance of the new team.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

 

I'm not quite sure how that's possible.

 

 

X-Men #95 and #96 have 1975 cover dates (Oct and Dec), while MTU Ann #1 is a 1976 book. Even if MTU Annual #1 was printed with the Jan, 1976 cover dates (not at all likely....I could find the exact publication date, but I'm lazy), that would still put it only before #97.

 

Hot tub time machine, maybe...?