Beginning of Bull Market for Comic Books

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Have any of you followed the prices for Hulk #181s? The last three years have been complete and utter madness. Every grade, across the board, doubled, sometimes tripled....and still, the demand is unending.

 

But Hulk #183? #179? #200? #147? #120? They best be priced at $1, or 9.4s or above, or no one, but no one will buy them.

 

I do not believe that Hulk 181 is a good example here. We are talking one of the most popular characters Marvel has ever created over the course of their history and the character has demonstrated lasting appeal since about a decade before Wolverine first appeared on screen.

 

Wolverine is not a Hulk character so people searching for the first appearance of Wolverine have zero interest in other Hulk books. The surrounding books, 180 and 182, featuring Wolverine have maintained a decent value in comparison. Wolverine has surpassed the popularity of the main character whose book he is in.

 

 

I think the example is a great one, and here's why: the print run and extant copies for, say, #184 aren't any higher, and probably not much lower, than #181. The extant copies may be a bit lower, but not by vast amounts.

 

And yet...#184, a complete "non-key" can be had for $200 or so in 9.8.

 

#181, on the other hand, is $11,000 or so.

 

You're making the argument for me. That's the point. Everyone is so hyper-obsessed with #181 because of what it is, to the point of not giving a single poop about the others, which aren't any better, nor worse, than #181. There's nothing inherently wrong with #184, or the others...except it doesn't have Wolverine in it.

 

Well...technically.

 

 

It didn't used to be that way. If Hulk #181 was a $35 book, the rest were still $2 or so. The gap now is amazing.

 

Look at it another way: the only comparable Silver Age examples are Amazing Fantasy #15, and the rest of the series.

 

I feel you missed the point - the people buying 181 are not buying it for the Hulk, they are buying it for Wolverine who is not considered a main supporting character of the hulk. If you are into hulk you are buying 184. If you are into wolverine - you want his first appearance.

 

I completely understand your point: Wolverine has nothing to do with Hulk. Got it. But that's the crux of my point: unless it is SUPER MEGA 1ST APPEARANCE WONDER KEY!!!!, it's trash, whether it's related to the key or not.

 

[The-Collector]

I got one statement to make - flippers flipping to flippers.

 

It is not a good trend for the hobby. It prices books out of the hands of the people who actually care about the hobby.

 

This.

 

And that books like FF 45 & 52 are now more expensive in the marketplace than established keys like FF 48 &/or (in some cases) ASM 129 is ridiculous.

 

Black Panther will never become a bigger character than Silver Surfer. More importantly, the momentum will shift back to FF 48 (or ASM 129) the precise moment a new Silver Surfer or Punisher movie is announced.

 

That's the core of the current house of cards in movie speculation -- subtle shifts in demand can cause swift decreases.

 

I'd wager even Iron Man 55's taken a hit in recent months as the bigger money is (perceived) to be made with Detective 474, FF 36, 45, & 52.

 

And next month it could shift to Captain America 217 or some other random 4th-rate "key."

I don`t see why Black Panther will never become a bigger character than Silver Surfer, as of right now with the mainstream Groot is a bigger character than Silver Surfer. There are new rules/times because there is a new,different and bigger audience now.

To think that these Marvel movies are just a fad, and will go away maybe selling them short. In fact they will get much bigger. Because of these movies the Marvel heroes will always be in the limelight. They will never fade back into the corner LCS from which the sprang. They have now been exposed to mainstream, and mainstream loves them.

Once the Inhumans get the Game of Thrones treatment they will be put on a big level just like Guardians of Galaxy.

Now on the other hand I could see the DC second rate heroes falling back because DC doesn't have the track record of making great movies like Marvel has.

 

 

 

Groot is not a bigger character than the Silver Surfer. He has more recent publicity than the Silver Surfer but that is like saying "Miley Cyrus is bigger than Madonna" because she has just been splashed all over the news. The fundamentals are not there, once he has an established a fanbase that has persisted for 40+ years and is still a favorite, then you can say he is bigger.

[Buzzetta]

 

Have any of you followed the prices for Hulk #181s? The last three years have been complete and utter madness. Every grade, across the board, doubled, sometimes tripled....and still, the demand is unending.

 

But Hulk #183? #179? #200? #147? #120? They best be priced at $1, or 9.4s or above, or no one, but no one will buy them.

 

I do not believe that Hulk 181 is a good example here. We are talking one of the most popular characters Marvel has ever created over the course of their history and the character has demonstrated lasting appeal since about a decade before Wolverine first appeared on screen.

 

Wolverine is not a Hulk character so people searching for the first appearance of Wolverine have zero interest in other Hulk books. The surrounding books, 180 and 182, featuring Wolverine have maintained a decent value in comparison. Wolverine has surpassed the popularity of the main character whose book he is in.

 

 

I think the example is a great one, and here's why: the print run and extant copies for, say, #184 aren't any higher, and probably not much lower, than #181. The extant copies may be a bit lower, but not by vast amounts.

 

And yet...#184, a complete "non-key" can be had for $200 or so in 9.8.

 

#181, on the other hand, is $11,000 or so.

 

You're making the argument for me. That's the point. Everyone is so hyper-obsessed with #181 because of what it is, to the point of not giving a single poop about the others, which aren't any better, nor worse, than #181. There's nothing inherently wrong with #184, or the others...except it doesn't have Wolverine in it.

 

Well...technically.

 

 

It didn't used to be that way. If Hulk #181 was a $35 book, the rest were still $2 or so. The gap now is amazing.

 

Look at it another way: the only comparable Silver Age examples are Amazing Fantasy #15, and the rest of the series.

 

I feel you missed the point - the people buying 181 are not buying it for the Hulk, they are buying it for Wolverine who is not considered a main supporting character of the hulk. If you are into hulk you are buying 184. If you are into wolverine - you want his first appearance.

 

I completely understand your point: Wolverine has nothing to do with Hulk. Got it. But that's the crux of my point: unless it is SUPER MEGA 1ST APPEARANCE WONDER KEY!!!!, it's trash, whether it's related to the key or not.

 

Maybe where you are. I know plenty that continue filling the run or simply want stories based on the title character.

 

Agree to disagree I guess.

[white_rushin]

andy had to have been joking

 

I've totally derailed this thread now, but still I'm shocked! Showcase #73 seems like the type of book the boards would go crazy for.

[Buzzetta]

andy had to have been joking

 

I've totally derailed this thread now, but still I'm shocked! Showcase #73 seems like the type of book the boards would go crazy for.

 

Give it time. I bought a 7.5-8.0 Hawkman 4 on eBay right before the frenzy for my personal collection.

 

To tell the truth though, Is Creeper a character that would translate well in today's world? Unlike a SA 1st appearance of characters such as Zatana, his color scheme does not seem to be something that would easily work.

[white_rushin]

andy had to have been joking

 

I've totally derailed this thread now, but still I'm shocked! Showcase #73 seems like the type of book the boards would go crazy for.

 

Give it time. I bought a 7.5-8.0 Hawkman 4 on eBay right before the frenzy for my personal collection.

 

To tell the truth though, Is Creeper a character that would translate well in today's world? Unlike a SA 1st appearance of characters such as Zatana, his color scheme does not seem to be something that would easily work.

 

Good point!

 

I just thought it makes for a wonderful Silver Age book. 1st app of a strikingly, visual character from a classic creator with a dark purple cover

 

I'd agree he would translate horribly in today's world. Bruce Timm's Batman: TAS did him justice though.

[jimjum12]

 

Have any of you followed the prices for Hulk #181s? The last three years have been complete and utter madness. Every grade, across the board, doubled, sometimes tripled....and still, the demand is unending.

 

But Hulk #183? #179? #200? #147? #120? They best be priced at $1, or 9.4s or above, or no one, but no one will buy them.

 

I do not believe that Hulk 181 is a good example here. We are talking one of the most popular characters Marvel has ever created over the course of their history and the character has demonstrated lasting appeal since about a decade before Wolverine first appeared on screen.

 

Wolverine is not a Hulk character so people searching for the first appearance of Wolverine have zero interest in other Hulk books. The surrounding books, 180 and 182, featuring Wolverine have maintained a decent value in comparison. Wolverine has surpassed the popularity of the main character whose book he is in.

 

 

I think the example is a great one, and here's why: the print run and extant copies for, say, #184 aren't any higher, and probably not much lower, than #181. The extant copies may be a bit lower, but not by vast amounts.

 

And yet...#184, a complete "non-key" can be had for $200 or so in 9.8.

 

#181, on the other hand, is $11,000 or so.

 

You're making the argument for me. That's the point. Everyone is so hyper-obsessed with #181 because of what it is, to the point of not giving a single poop about the others, which aren't any better, nor worse, than #181. There's nothing inherently wrong with #184, or the others...except it doesn't have Wolverine in it.

 

Well...technically.

 

 

It didn't used to be that way. If Hulk #181 was a $35 book, the rest were still $2 or so. The gap now is amazing.

 

Look at it another way: the only comparable Silver Age examples are Amazing Fantasy #15, and the rest of the series.

 

I feel you missed the point - the people buying 181 are not buying it for the Hulk, they are buying it for Wolverine who is not considered a main supporting character of the hulk. If you are into hulk you are buying 184. If you are into wolverine - you want his first appearance.

 

I completely understand your point: Wolverine has nothing to do with Hulk. Got it. But that's the crux of my point: unless it is SUPER MEGA 1ST APPEARANCE WONDER KEY!!!!, it's trash, whether it's related to the key or not.

 

Maybe where you are. I know plenty that continue filling the run or simply want stories based on the title character.

 

Agree to disagree I guess.

 

..... it's easy to see the key predominant aspect of the market when one's information is predominantly gleened from internet data and CGC sales. Around here there's more than one collector putting together runs of Batman, ASM, DD, X-Men, Wonder Woman, WD, Superboy (yes...), and that's just off the top of my head. Now in the sake of honesty.....our area has long been serviced by several excellent LCS operations..... you know the kind, You get your pulls no matter what book suddenly gets hot, back issues are priced fairly with real tight grading, and the staff knows what you're looking for and looks out. These kind of sales don't show up anywhere...... and there are also a lot of collectors who just go for each new issue and don't do back issues, keys or otherwise.GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[FineCollector]

On the subject of Creeper, it just seemed like Ditko was doing a rehash of Daredevil five years later, and I didn't like it at all.

 

..... it's easy to see the key predominant aspect of the market when one's information is predominantly gleened from internet data and CGC sales. Around here there's more than one collector putting together runs of Batman, ASM, DD, X-Men, Wonder Woman, WD, Superboy (yes...), and that's just off the top of my head.

 

Love hearing about stuff like this. The only time we hear it is from the Overstreet market reports, and most of those guys just sing the same song year after year. Thanks!

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Have any of you followed the prices for Hulk #181s? The last three years have been complete and utter madness. Every grade, across the board, doubled, sometimes tripled....and still, the demand is unending.

 

But Hulk #183? #179? #200? #147? #120? They best be priced at $1, or 9.4s or above, or no one, but no one will buy them.

 

I do not believe that Hulk 181 is a good example here. We are talking one of the most popular characters Marvel has ever created over the course of their history and the character has demonstrated lasting appeal since about a decade before Wolverine first appeared on screen.

 

Wolverine is not a Hulk character so people searching for the first appearance of Wolverine have zero interest in other Hulk books. The surrounding books, 180 and 182, featuring Wolverine have maintained a decent value in comparison. Wolverine has surpassed the popularity of the main character whose book he is in.

 

 

I think the example is a great one, and here's why: the print run and extant copies for, say, #184 aren't any higher, and probably not much lower, than #181. The extant copies may be a bit lower, but not by vast amounts.

 

And yet...#184, a complete "non-key" can be had for $200 or so in 9.8.

 

#181, on the other hand, is $11,000 or so.

 

You're making the argument for me. That's the point. Everyone is so hyper-obsessed with #181 because of what it is, to the point of not giving a single poop about the others, which aren't any better, nor worse, than #181. There's nothing inherently wrong with #184, or the others...except it doesn't have Wolverine in it.

 

Well...technically.

 

 

It didn't used to be that way. If Hulk #181 was a $35 book, the rest were still $2 or so. The gap now is amazing.

 

Look at it another way: the only comparable Silver Age examples are Amazing Fantasy #15, and the rest of the series.

 

I feel you missed the point - the people buying 181 are not buying it for the Hulk, they are buying it for Wolverine who is not considered a main supporting character of the hulk. If you are into hulk you are buying 184. If you are into wolverine - you want his first appearance.

 

I completely understand your point: Wolverine has nothing to do with Hulk. Got it. But that's the crux of my point: unless it is SUPER MEGA 1ST APPEARANCE WONDER KEY!!!!, it's trash, whether it's related to the key or not.

 

Maybe where you are. I know plenty that continue filling the run or simply want stories based on the title character.

 

Agree to disagree I guess.

 

..... it's easy to see the key predominant aspect of the market when one's information is predominantly gleened from internet data and CGC sales.

 

Whose information is predominantly gleened from internet data and CGC sales...?

 

 

No one said that nobody collects runs anymore.

 

The point being discussed is the current trend towards "KEYS KEYS KEYS!!!", which has widened the gap between keys and everything else. It is not a theory, it's not an opinion, it's what is happening at the moment, all across the market, whether it be on the internet, or CGC sales, or convention sales, or retailer sales in B&M stores.

 

It doesn't mean everyone only buys keys, which quite clearly isn't true. It just means that, at this particular point in the history of the market, it (the market) is more focused as a whole on keys, to the general exclusion of non-keys, than at any other time in the 50 year history of organized comic fandom.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Have any of you followed the prices for Hulk #181s? The last three years have been complete and utter madness. Every grade, across the board, doubled, sometimes tripled....and still, the demand is unending.

 

But Hulk #183? #179? #200? #147? #120? They best be priced at $1, or 9.4s or above, or no one, but no one will buy them.

 

I do not believe that Hulk 181 is a good example here. We are talking one of the most popular characters Marvel has ever created over the course of their history and the character has demonstrated lasting appeal since about a decade before Wolverine first appeared on screen.

 

Wolverine is not a Hulk character so people searching for the first appearance of Wolverine have zero interest in other Hulk books. The surrounding books, 180 and 182, featuring Wolverine have maintained a decent value in comparison. Wolverine has surpassed the popularity of the main character whose book he is in.

 

 

I think the example is a great one, and here's why: the print run and extant copies for, say, #184 aren't any higher, and probably not much lower, than #181. The extant copies may be a bit lower, but not by vast amounts.

 

And yet...#184, a complete "non-key" can be had for $200 or so in 9.8.

 

#181, on the other hand, is $11,000 or so.

 

You're making the argument for me. That's the point. Everyone is so hyper-obsessed with #181 because of what it is, to the point of not giving a single poop about the others, which aren't any better, nor worse, than #181. There's nothing inherently wrong with #184, or the others...except it doesn't have Wolverine in it.

 

Well...technically.

 

 

It didn't used to be that way. If Hulk #181 was a $35 book, the rest were still $2 or so. The gap now is amazing.

 

Look at it another way: the only comparable Silver Age examples are Amazing Fantasy #15, and the rest of the series.

 

I feel you missed the point - the people buying 181 are not buying it for the Hulk, they are buying it for Wolverine who is not considered a main supporting character of the hulk. If you are into hulk you are buying 184. If you are into wolverine - you want his first appearance.

 

I completely understand your point: Wolverine has nothing to do with Hulk. Got it. But that's the crux of my point: unless it is SUPER MEGA 1ST APPEARANCE WONDER KEY!!!!, it's trash, whether it's related to the key or not.

 

Maybe where you are. I know plenty that continue filling the run or simply want stories based on the title character.

 

Agree to disagree I guess.

 

I was using hyperbole to make a point. I don't literally mean that nobody collects runs anymore. This is quite obviously not the case.

[The-Collector]

 

Have any of you followed the prices for Hulk #181s? The last three years have been complete and utter madness. Every grade, across the board, doubled, sometimes tripled....and still, the demand is unending.

 

But Hulk #183? #179? #200? #147? #120? They best be priced at $1, or 9.4s or above, or no one, but no one will buy them.

 

I do not believe that Hulk 181 is a good example here. We are talking one of the most popular characters Marvel has ever created over the course of their history and the character has demonstrated lasting appeal since about a decade before Wolverine first appeared on screen.

 

Wolverine is not a Hulk character so people searching for the first appearance of Wolverine have zero interest in other Hulk books. The surrounding books, 180 and 182, featuring Wolverine have maintained a decent value in comparison. Wolverine has surpassed the popularity of the main character whose book he is in.

 

 

I think the example is a great one, and here's why: the print run and extant copies for, say, #184 aren't any higher, and probably not much lower, than #181. The extant copies may be a bit lower, but not by vast amounts.

 

And yet...#184, a complete "non-key" can be had for $200 or so in 9.8.

 

#181, on the other hand, is $11,000 or so.

 

You're making the argument for me. That's the point. Everyone is so hyper-obsessed with #181 because of what it is, to the point of not giving a single poop about the others, which aren't any better, nor worse, than #181. There's nothing inherently wrong with #184, or the others...except it doesn't have Wolverine in it.

 

Well...technically.

 

 

It didn't used to be that way. If Hulk #181 was a $35 book, the rest were still $2 or so. The gap now is amazing.

 

Look at it another way: the only comparable Silver Age examples are Amazing Fantasy #15, and the rest of the series.

 

I feel you missed the point - the people buying 181 are not buying it for the Hulk, they are buying it for Wolverine who is not considered a main supporting character of the hulk. If you are into hulk you are buying 184. If you are into wolverine - you want his first appearance.

 

I completely understand your point: Wolverine has nothing to do with Hulk. Got it. But that's the crux of my point: unless it is SUPER MEGA 1ST APPEARANCE WONDER KEY!!!!, it's trash, whether it's related to the key or not.

 

Maybe where you are. I know plenty that continue filling the run or simply want stories based on the title character.

 

Agree to disagree I guess.

 

I was using hyperbole to make a point. I don't literally mean that nobody collects runs anymore. This is quite obviously not the case.

 

RMA do you ever sleep?

[BlowUpTheMoon]

RMA do you ever sleep?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

RMA do you ever sleep?

 

Choose your own answer!

 

1. No, I'm a zombie.

 

2. Of course. I live on the west coast. It's only 10:30 here. I've only been on the boards for a couple of hours tonight.

 

3. My mom called you and told you to tell me to go to bed, didn't she?

 

4. You're not the boss of me!

 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

RMA do you ever sleep?

 

 

No.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

RMA do you ever sleep?

 

 

No.

 

 

Must...have...brains.......and....pico......

[The-Collector]

RMA do you ever sleep?

 

Choose your own answer!

 

1. No, I'm a zombie.

 

2. Of course. I live on the west coast. It's only 10:30 here. I've only been on the boards for a couple of hours tonight.

 

3. My mom called you and told you to tell me to go to bed, didn't she?

 

4. You're not the boss of me!

 

 

I am hoping the answer is no 1 but I suspect the real answer is number 2.

[Buzzetta]

I don't sleep and it's become worse with each passing week.

[Buzzetta]

 

Have any of you followed the prices for Hulk #181s? The last three years have been complete and utter madness. Every grade, across the board, doubled, sometimes tripled....and still, the demand is unending.

 

But Hulk #183? #179? #200? #147? #120? They best be priced at $1, or 9.4s or above, or no one, but no one will buy them.

 

I do not believe that Hulk 181 is a good example here. We are talking one of the most popular characters Marvel has ever created over the course of their history and the character has demonstrated lasting appeal since about a decade before Wolverine first appeared on screen.

 

Wolverine is not a Hulk character so people searching for the first appearance of Wolverine have zero interest in other Hulk books. The surrounding books, 180 and 182, featuring Wolverine have maintained a decent value in comparison. Wolverine has surpassed the popularity of the main character whose book he is in.

 

 

I think the example is a great one, and here's why: the print run and extant copies for, say, #184 aren't any higher, and probably not much lower, than #181. The extant copies may be a bit lower, but not by vast amounts.

 

And yet...#184, a complete "non-key" can be had for $200 or so in 9.8.

 

#181, on the other hand, is $11,000 or so.

 

You're making the argument for me. That's the point. Everyone is so hyper-obsessed with #181 because of what it is, to the point of not giving a single poop about the others, which aren't any better, nor worse, than #181. There's nothing inherently wrong with #184, or the others...except it doesn't have Wolverine in it.

 

Well...technically.

 

 

It didn't used to be that way. If Hulk #181 was a $35 book, the rest were still $2 or so. The gap now is amazing.

 

Look at it another way: the only comparable Silver Age examples are Amazing Fantasy #15, and the rest of the series.

 

I feel you missed the point - the people buying 181 are not buying it for the Hulk, they are buying it for Wolverine who is not considered a main supporting character of the hulk. If you are into hulk you are buying 184. If you are into wolverine - you want his first appearance.

 

I completely understand your point: Wolverine has nothing to do with Hulk. Got it. But that's the crux of my point: unless it is SUPER MEGA 1ST APPEARANCE WONDER KEY!!!!, it's trash, whether it's related to the key or not.

 

Maybe where you are. I know plenty that continue filling the run or simply want stories based on the title character.

 

Agree to disagree I guess.

 

..... it's easy to see the key predominant aspect of the market when one's information is predominantly gleened from internet data and CGC sales.

 

Whose information is predominantly gleened from internet data and CGC sales...?

 

 

No one said that nobody collects runs anymore.

 

The point being discussed is the current trend towards "KEYS KEYS KEYS!!!", which has widened the gap between keys and everything else. It is not a theory, it's not an opinion, it's what is happening at the moment, all across the market, whether it be on the internet, or CGC sales, or convention sales, or retailer sales in B&M stores.

 

It doesn't mean everyone only buys keys, which quite clearly isn't true. It just means that, at this particular point in the history of the market, it (the market) is more focused as a whole on keys, to the general exclusion of non-keys, than at any other time in the 50 year history of organized comic fandom.

 

And again - wolverine is a poor example - but don't let me stop you

[slym2none]

I don't sleep and it's become worse with each passing week.

 

Join the crowd.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

And again - wolverine is a poor example - but don't let me stop you

 

Ok, point made. We don't agree. Do we need to be confrontational...?

 

:shrug: