• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Follow up: Rank the Silver/Bronze Pedis

Started by DKB,

67 posts in this topic

DKB

DKB

Posted
Posted

Curator

Pacific Coast

Green River

Western Penn

Northland

Bowling Green

Winnipeg

White Mountain

Boston

Oakland

Ohio

Bethlehem

Circle 8

Diamond Run

Massachusetts

MH2

Big Apple

 

17 total there, give your top 10. You may ask, rank in terms of what? The answer is OVERALL. Consider all possible aspects that might make a pedigree "worthy". Completeness, provenance, quality, quantity, all that.

 

Some of the pedis have substantial pre-Silver Age pieces. If breath of content before the Silver Age enhances the "mystique" of the pedi's Silver-Age books, by all means, include that in your considerations, but this is just a judge of Silver-Age content.

 

Thanks for playing. =)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted

Ya know Vince I have a BA Oakland and it is awesome, looks like it just came off the press never mind the rack. I just don't have a Curator, but thought the word has always been that for PQ, QP and gloss they just cant be beat. I think this question is better answered by the larger dealers who have seen multiple copies of the various pedigrees. In that case I guess you should take Vince's comments with some weight on the BA Oak's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sfilosa

sfilosa

Posted
Posted

You have to remember that the Silver-Age started in 1956. Therefore I have to say White Mountain is the best because it includes GA books, but also includes many 1956-1961 Non Marvel Super-Hero books. Plus there are lots of the major keys AF#15, JIM #83, TOS #39, etc. that are 9.4 or better.

 

It beats out Bethlehem simply because many have dust shadows on the back.

 

Now if you are only talking Super-Hero Silver-Age then maybe the Curator is better.

 

From what I have seen and have, I like the Pacific Coast and Northland as both seem to have excellent Quality of Production.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted

Here's my 2 cents:

 

1. Western Penn--spans entire SA and also BA, great breadth, average quality of books very high

 

2. Pacific Coast--great breadth, average quality of books is extremely high, but weak on early SA

 

3. White Mountain--spans entire SA, great breadth, average quality of major keys is extremely high, average quality of books is high but not as high as other pedigrees

 

4. Massachusetts--average quality of books is very high, appears to have great breadth when it comes to Marvel SA, but I have not seen many DCs and don't have a good sense of how good the major keys from this pedigree are

 

4. Northland--dead heat with Mass, same general comments although I have seen more DCs from Northland than Mass

 

6. Curator*--the low placing may be controversial, which is why I've asterisked it. The reputation of this collection is the average quality of books is extremely high, perhaps the highest of all SA pedigrees, and what few issues I've seen bear this out. However, very little information has surfaced as to its breadth and depth. Are all Marvel and DC runs represented? How far back? Are all the early SA keys represented, and are they in high grade?

 

7. Bethlehem--spans entire SA, great breadth, but average quality of books is inconsistent and many books have shadows

 

My personal opinion is that the other pedigrees listed by DKB aren't worth ranking, primarily because of inconsistent quality and/or not covering the full SA (Oakland, Boston)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red Hook

Red Hook

Posted
Posted

Of the pedigrees I've seen, I have to rate the Curator & Pacific Coast on top.

 

For the record, the vast majority of the Green River Collection have really great page quality, usually white, but the grades of the books are wide ranging. The best books in the GR are as good as any I've seen, (not withstanding some folks disinclination towards date stamps), but I've yet to see many of the books from the earlier runs. The consistancy of the PC collection is one of it's outstanding features.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rob_react

rob_react

Posted
Posted

Non-scientific, mostly gut reactions on the collections that I know well enough to have formed an opinion. I own representative copies from the ones marked with a star.

 

1. Pacific Coast*: Best combination of quality and breadth. The outrageous later DCs that have been in Heritage's recent auctions are perfect PC books to me. Titles that a lot of the SA pedigrees don't include in grades that are unheard of in general from books of the period.

2. White Mountain*: Great quality, amazing breadth. My single most wanted book is from WM, by the way. The DD#1. The FF#1 is pretty high on that list too.

3. Western Penn*: High quality and, from what I gather, pretty deep.

4. Curator*: Insane quality.

5. Massachusetts: Seems like a fat pile of early Marvel 9.4s and 9.2s to me. I don't know enough detail to rate it any higher.

6. Bethlehem*: Too many VFs to rate any higher, WAY too many books to rate any lower.

7. Boston: Phenomenal quality, nice DC representation, not early enough to rank any higher (unless I'm mistaken and there are a bunch of keys out there.)

8. Green River*: Really nice books, not terribly deep/important.

9. Northland*. Nice books, but I don't really know enough about it at all beyond the books that I've seen, so I stick it here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aman619

Aman619

Posted
Posted

Curator

Pacific Coast

Western Penn

Northland

Winnipeg

White Mountain

Boston

Oakland

Bethlehem

Diamond Run

Massachusetts

 

These are the top 10 Pedigrees (in no particular order) IMO based on the books i HAVE seen and from what Ive read

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ComicBookGuy

ComicBookGuy

Posted
Posted

I would put Western Penn, Curator, and Pacific Coast in a category far above the rest of these for their range across the silver and bronze spectrum and for their consistent and amazing paper quality. The top conditions of these - unread and like new with blazing cover gloss - will consistently make collectors pay huge premiums over similarly conditioned comics, especially when slabbed. They bear no comment beyond this. hail.gif

 

On a second tier, there are two collections I have bought from that I feel rank in terms of quality every bit as high: the Rocket collection and the Cleveland collection. These books are unbelievable and have all been bought up quickly without being slabbed or recognized as pedigrees. Zillaf4 sold the Rockets on ebay and Harley Yee discovered the Clevelands a few years back. The Rocket collection possesses what I consider the highest grade comics from the bronze age I have EVER seen. hail.gif

 

I own a few Northlands, and while they are nice, they show signs of stress and handling and seem inconsistent in terms of how they were stored and how they look now. One of the most unsatisfying comic finds I ever had was winning the 9.0 copy of House of Mystery 179 from the Northland collection. The entire back cover was brown. Not cream, not tan, but brown! That was the last Northland I shelled out bucks for, but I do have the Action #300 Northland and it's killer! grin.gif

 

Bethlehem comics seem inconsistent also. They seem to range from good to near mint. As others have mentioned, many edges during storage seemed to "stick out of the stack" to get some edge tanning; many others did not. If you don't like stamps, about 2 out of 3 Bethlehems have the telltale store stamp on the back cover. What's great about this collection is that the guy bought everything! I own the Dennis the Menace Bethlehems, and, to my knowledge, Bethlehem is the only pedigree collection that includes Dennis the Menace. If I am wrong about this, somebody please tell me. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Boston, Circle 8, and Massachusetts do not seem like anything special to me. I own several of each, but they are just okay: flat gloss, covers not tanned but not white either, some light stress here and there. Big consistent high grade collections, but nobody's paying BIG extra premiums on these as far as I can tell. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

Whenever I see a Winnipeg, I see a huge name scrawled across the cover in ink. No thanks! foreheadslap.gif

 

Mile High 2 should not really be a pedigree since it is not an original owner collection, right? My understanding of pedigree status is that it should be an original owner collection. One thing is for sure is that he did not seek out covers that were properly centered. screwy.gif

 

I am familiar with the rest of these, seeing them on ebay, etc, but do not own any of them so cannot comment with definitiveness:

Green River

Bowling Green

White Mountain

Oakland

Ohio

Diamond Run

Big Apple

confused-smiley-013.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sfilosa

sfilosa

Posted
Posted

One thing I notices is that you TOPIC says Silver/Bronze yet, in your question you specifically say "Silver-Age only".

 

Basically, if we narrowed it down to a certain publisher and time frame, we would probably have a better consensus. Once you throw Pre-Marvel Silver-Age into the equation (yet still Silver-Age books), I really don't think there is any question that White Mountains and Bethlehems are the best as they cover so many more publishers/titles, etc.

 

But if you focus only on Marvel Silver-Age, that changes everything and if you only look at quality versus quantity that changes everything also (as most Oaklands have incredible quality but lack any early issues).

 

Just my two cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ComicBookGuy

ComicBookGuy

Posted
Posted
Harley may have sold many Clevelands, but I dont think he found the collection. It was some other guy in the NY area, not one of the biggies..

 

I based my statement on what Harley told me when I bought some comics from him a few years back at a show. He said he went to the owner's house and was showed the comics. (This implied to me that he was the original finder.) They were stored in a first-floor closet, not a basement, not an attic, which explains the great page quality. He also said he had applied to cgc for pedigree status and was denied since the collector had bought some issues (most) off the stands and some as back issues. You may be right that he was not the first finder of the collection, or maybe he bought what the other guy didn't. I can neither confirm or deny the story, but only just say what Harley told me. Thanks for sharing your info, though, cause I am interested in this pedigree since I have several of them and LOVE them! If you know any other details, please share.

Joe

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aman619

Aman619

Posted
Posted

Im not calling Harley a non-truthteller on this. But I spoke with a smallish-time dealer who had runs of them that were (sadly) already picked pretty clean by then. So, as these things go, when ever did a BIG-time guy (Harley) find a killer collections and sell them to a small-ish time guy? Nine times out of ten, its the name otherway around, right?? Small guy lucks onto the motherlode and brings in a bigtime guy as a partner (in which case Harley WOULD be co-finder) or small guy goes it alone, and dealers swoop in and pick at the first show he brings them to...

 

Im betting its one or the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted

I guess that ranking these premier OO collections depends on one's area of concentration, and also what each of us knows about them.

 

Going by the early Silver Age keys from both Marvel and DC, the White Mountain would have to rank highly. In contrast, I know virtually nothing about the earliest DC Curators, while the Pacific Coast books have astounding structure dating back only to the very end of '62, and the Mass ten cent DCs that I've seen are mostly no better than VF/NM. If it's the earliest FFs you crave, then the Slobodian collection (not accepted by CGC unfairly, I believe) ranks highly, but I know nothing about the ten cent DCs from this collection. For their astonishing depth and breadth of ultra high grade runs, the PC and Curators are superior overall. However, I know virtually nothing about the Marvel keys from the Western PA collection (excepting the fantastic TOS39), so it is difficult to draw a comparison.

 

One's personal preferences with preservation come into play, too. The Curators seem to have the best overall page quality. The PCs seem to have the best overall quality of production. Both have phenomenal structural preservation, but there is a loss of cover whiteness with the Marvel PCs. The early Northland books have terrific cover whiteness, but the books from the late sixties are not nearly as nice. The Bowling Green Marvels have the freshest cover colors of any ped I've seen, but the condition of some of the books is not topnotch, and page quality is often only offwhite.

 

I'd love to learn more from you all about the DC Curators and Slobodians, key Marvels in the Western PA, Mass and Northland collections.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing