Valiant first appearances (quick version for beginners) Now with pictures! 2 2

[Gatsby77]

Thanks, Greg! And can you confirm the commentary in one of the issues that Magnus 12 & Harbinger 1 were ranked # 16 & 17?

 

Weird that the 2010 estimate for Solar 7 is as high as 50k given that we were all told back in 1992-'93 that Harbinger 1 (not on the list) had a print run of just ~35k.

 

I also recall that everyone thought Rai 4 was rarer than Rai 3 until the ranking came out in Valiant Voice.

 

Anecdotally, I always found more Rai 3s than Rai 4s, but Wizard was the one annointing Rai 4 as the rarest for a hot spell there...

 

I don't doubt your experiences, but I have the opposite view. I have always, always, straight back to 1993, seen fewer Rai 3s than 4s. And still do today.

 

+1

 

That's fair. I have always held the books co-equal as "semi-keys" in my mind (i.e., for relative scarcity only & a tier down from Harbinger 1, Magnus 0 & 12, & Solar 10).

 

They peaked in the Philly region at $65 each back in '93.

 

Through passive collecting over the years, I've now got 6 copies of # 3 vs. only 2 copies of # 4, and I never paid more than $8 per.

[SharpComics.com]

I am seeing some things on Rai #0.... was there a glossy and non-glossy version?

 

Or am I just dreaming this stuff up now? Is one more rare than the other? Any label notation that is different?

 

Yes, there are 2 versions

[___]

Well at least I know I am not loosing it. Scarcity on these or equal distribution?

[valiantman]

Well at least I know I am not loosing it. Scarcity on these or equal distribution?

It has been estimated that only about 5% of Rai #0 are glossy --- but that is from about 10 years ago and I don't remember the source.

 

The books are identical in every way, except for the "glossiness" of the cover, so it's very hard to be sure which books are glossy from a scan, in hand (if you only have one copy) or from inside a CGC case, etc.

 

[___]

Well at least I know I am not loosing it. Scarcity on these or equal distribution?

It has been estimated that only about 5% of Rai #0 are glossy --- but that is from about 10 years ago and I don't remember the source.

 

The books are identical in every way, except for the "glossiness" of the cover, so it's very hard to be sure which books are glossy from a scan, in hand (if you only have one copy) or from inside a CGC case, etc.

 

 

was this a production error or did they do this on purpose?

[valiantman]

Well at least I know I am not loosing it. Scarcity on these or equal distribution?

It has been estimated that only about 5% of Rai #0 are glossy --- but that is from about 10 years ago and I don't remember the source.

 

The books are identical in every way, except for the "glossiness" of the cover, so it's very hard to be sure which books are glossy from a scan, in hand (if you only have one copy) or from inside a CGC case, etc.

 

 

was this a production error or did they do this on purpose?

There was smudging/scuffing occurring during the print run, so a different paper was tried to see if it would help.

The two papers have different gloss. That's about all we know for sure.

 

Once people started scrutinizing their copies of Rai #0, it became apparent that the symbol after RAI in the title is sometimes blurry... other times, it's clear.

http://valiantfan.com/valiant/images/Rai0Blurry.jpg

 

There was also a variation noticed where the red circle on the cover doesn't line up with the black silhouette,

so you get a bit of a "white shadow" on the silhouette... such as the gun should have the red circle showing, but it doesn't.

 

It's just a slight difference in the alignments of the inks.

http://valiantfan.com/valiant/images/Rai0whiteshadow.jpg

 

Again, there's no way to "eyeball" the differences between glossy and regular without having both in your hand.

(Well, maybe if you've had both in the past and memorized the differences, you can tell if you only have one copy in your hand.)

 

Unless CGC or another grading company starts identifying the variations somehow, it's not likely that the market will differentiate (most of the time).

 

Then again... there's no limit to the amount of scrutiny the collecting community might decide to "standardize".

[carter3175]

Can we just get a comprehensive list of Valiant 1st appearances on the 1st page of this thread? It would be great to see it span from the original Valiant then Acclaim/Valiant to present day.

Edited March 18, 2015 by carter3175

[valiantman]

Rai #3 --- in my experience, most copies are miscut at the top, with no blue showing above the RAI logo.

 

I've always considered the "well-centered" cover more desirable, because it looks more like Rai #1-#5 at the top.

Well-centered copies aren't as common as the miscut.

 

[valiantman]

Can we just get a comprehensive list of Valiant 1st appearances on the 1st page of this thread? It would be great to see it span from the original Valiant then Acclaim/Valiant to present day.

Where do we draw the line on characters?

Those with their own titles? Those featured in many issues? Those who are named but never do anything interesting?

 

Valiant has 2,000 characters according to the press releases...

I'm not sure there's an easy way to list even the "Top 50" (without much debate).

 

I am sure there's not an easy way to list all 2,000.

 

[carter3175]

Can we just get a comprehensive list of Valiant 1st appearances on the 1st page of this thread? It would be great to see it span from the original Valiant then Acclaim/Valiant to present day.

Where do we draw the line on characters?

Those with their own titles? Those featured in many issues? Those who are named but never do anything interesting?

 

Valiant has 2,000 characters according to the press releases...

I'm not sure there's an easy way to list even the "Top 50" (without much debate).

 

I am sure there's not an easy way to list all 2,000.

 

This is true. There are a ton of characters but there are some major players people give care a lot about. Quantum and Woody from Acclaim, Bleeding Monk etc. I know there was some great discussion on the Valiantfans website that had great information.

[Bosco685]

Well at least I know I am not loosing it. Scarcity on these or equal distribution?

It has been estimated that only about 5% of Rai #0 are glossy --- but that is from about 10 years ago and I don't remember the source.

 

The books are identical in every way, except for the "glossiness" of the cover, so it's very hard to be sure which books are glossy from a scan, in hand (if you only have one copy) or from inside a CGC case, etc.

 

Years and years of your fantastic book comparisons and discussions can now be refreshed for new eyes.

 

 

This feels so good to see such interest again.

[hermster]

Well at least I know I am not loosing it. Scarcity on these or equal distribution?

It has been estimated that only about 5% of Rai #0 are glossy --- but that is from about 10 years ago and I don't remember the source.

 

The books are identical in every way, except for the "glossiness" of the cover, so it's very hard to be sure which books are glossy from a scan, in hand (if you only have one copy) or from inside a CGC case, etc.

Good to know, I actually had a glossy copy up for sale in the mixed age thread. Too bad I had no takers I was wondering out of the 10 copies I picked up why one was glossy.

[valiantman]

Well at least I know I am not loosing it. Scarcity on these or equal distribution?

It has been estimated that only about 5% of Rai #0 are glossy --- but that is from about 10 years ago and I don't remember the source.

 

The books are identical in every way, except for the "glossiness" of the cover, so it's very hard to be sure which books are glossy from a scan, in hand (if you only have one copy) or from inside a CGC case, etc.

Good to know, I actually had a glossy copy up for sale in the mixed age thread. Too bad I had no takers I was wondering out of the 10 copies I picked up why one was glossy.

If you still have both versions and want to try to take some pictures for us to compare, that might be fun.

[hermster]

Glossy Cover

Back cover feels different also

 

Regular

 

Side by side comparison

Glossy(left) Regular(right)

 

Glossy

 

Regular

[valiantman]

THANK YOU!

 

 

Side by side, in the same lighting, there is a slight difference in the coloring of the white cover for the glossy (slightly off-white).

With the angled light on the cover, they have slightly different "glares"...

but I don't see anything that would help me know that a copy was glossy if someone posted the photos from one book or the other in an auction.

 

[vaillant]

So, when you say you "can't see how this could or should affect collecting"... I'm wondering how you can't see it.

 

I expressed myself badly. I was referring to the 1990s Valiant number of series: I see they licensed the characters from the Gold Key original books, and the recent Valiant books don’t make much sense to me, as they are something basically different, a "version", so to speak, but not the same thing Shooter did by expanding existing characters' worlds and merging them.

 

So I just meant that as a Gold Key or Valiant lover I would care about these books regardless of the new series. I might enjoy these reinterpretations, but they would not be along the same lines of the originals and the development introduced by Shooter.

[Gatsby77]

I will find it absolutely ludicrous if, simply because VEI does not have the license to the Gold Key characters, Magnus 5 (1st appearance of Rai) ends up being far more valuable than either Magnus 0 (origin, 1st Valiant incentive) or Magnus 12 (1st Turok) just because Rai *may* appear in a movie 3-4 years hence.

 

No problem with it being more valuable than Magnus 1, since I believe it's also notable for being David Lapham's first professional work, and Stray Bullets was awesome.

 

But for Magnus 5 to overtake Magnus 0 & 12 for me would be right up there with Iron Man 55 overtaking Iron Man 1 for a spell.

 

Oddly, I don't feel that way about Solar 3 or Solar 10 -- each deserves to be more valuable than Solar 1, and -- back in the day, each was. Harada is a keystone villain & the print run is far far less than that of Shadowman 8.

 

It's a major disturbance in the force to have half of the pre-Unity books (the bulk of the Magnus & Solar runs) no longer as potentially valuable as those of the other lines simply because today's collectibility is movie hype driven.

[___]

I will find it absolutely ludicrous if, simply because VEI does not have the license to the Gold Key characters, Magnus 5 (1st appearance of Rai) ends up being far more valuable than either Magnus 0 (origin, 1st Valiant incentive) or Magnus 12 (1st Turok) just because Rai *may* appear in a movie 3-4 years hence.

 

No problem with it being more valuable than Magnus 1, since I believe it's also notable for being David Lapham's first professional work, and Stray Bullets was awesome.

 

But for Magnus 5 to overtake Magnus 0 & 12 for me would be right up there with Iron Man 55 overtaking Iron Man 1 for a spell.

 

Oddly, I don't feel that way about Solar 3 or Solar 10 -- each deserves to be more valuable than Solar 1, and -- back in the day, each was. Harada is a keystone villain & the print run is far far less than that of Shadowman 8.

 

It's a major disturbance in the force to have half of the pre-Unity books (the bulk of the Magnus & Solar runs) no longer as potentially valuable as those of the other lines simply because today's collectibility is movie hype driven.

 

I think you just contradicted yourself.

 

Iron Man 55 is way more important than Iron Man one anyways

[Escaflown4]

I am seeing some things on Rai #0.... was there a glossy and non-glossy version?

 

Or am I just dreaming this stuff up now? Is one more rare than the other? Any label notation that is different?

 

Yes, there are 2 versions

 

If I remembered correctly, there are actually three versions for Rai #0's cover.

[Escaflown4]

THANK YOU!

 

 

Side by side, in the same lighting, there is a slight difference in the coloring of the white cover for the glossy (slightly off-white).

With the angled light on the cover, they have slightly different "glares"...

but I don't see anything that would help me know that a copy was glossy if someone posted the photos from one book or the other in an auction.

 

There is another way to tell if the cover is glossy. All of my glossy versions are slightly shorter on the right edge of the book. Please refer to Hermster's scans for reference. You can see a little bit of the interior front page on the right edge.