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The Defenders Thread - Netflix & **Marvel Spoiler Filled**
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117 posts in this topic

Watched only the first episode so far and wasn't impressed.

For reference - I loved Daredevil 1+2, really liked Jessica Jones, thought Luke Cage was merely okay and _hated_ Iron Fist.

I'm sure it will pick up but dang do they seem to be taking their sweet time putting the team together.

Bright spot?

Sigourney Weaver. Doubt she'll be able to match David Tennant but it'll be fun to see if she can...

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4 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Now that I am back from vacation, I'll have to see if I can do my part for The Defenders. Though from the first few episodes, it feels like a slow story for a season only containing 8 episodes.

 

Ironfist is believed to be the second most watched of the Marvel/Netflix shows in its first 30 days, after only Daredevil season 2.

The people who don't like Ironfist, wont love Defenders because they are similar.  I think my comparison of Defenders as a hyrbid of Daredevil/Ironfist in terms of tone, feel, and style is very accurate.

The thing about Netflix is that the majority of the audience (not unlike MCU movies), are not comic book nerds.  If you ask around or observe the non-comic book readers that watch these shows, you'll find that the numbers do match the feedback you get.  They are the ones that made Ironfist put up such massive numbers, and it will be the same with Defenders.

If Daredevil released a season where he didnt fight, at all, and it was only talking and character development, it would still set records for viewership, but many of the people who love Daredevil Season 1/2 just for the fighting would say its awful.   Everyone has the right to their opinions, but its interesting this almost cognitive dissonance you see in some of these threads.  Beyond the usual, "if you dont like it, why do you care so much to take the time to come and complain", type deal, it genuinely seems like some people think Marvel is just going to put out 7 versions of Daredevil, each staring different characters...  Each show is going to be different.

Ultimately, content should not and cannot be produced only for the fanboi crowd, or it ends up sucking big time, and is not sophisticated enough for a mainstream/wider audience.  The Netflix show runners know what they are doing, and thank goodness, otherwise we would end up with garbage like Ben Affleck or Will Smith being shoehorned into comicbook shows/movies :sick:

Netflix is going to continue to have each of its Marvel shows have a unique genre and feel.  Defenders is always going to be a middle ground hybrid of Daredevil and Ironfist.  The Punisher will be the best show yet, and more than enough red meat for the people who dont understand an Ironfist or Defenders style show.

For the record, and my spoiler, i think the anti-Ironfist crowd is going to be crying even more:

Spoiler

People are speculating on Born Again, etc, I think they are very wrong.   I think what you are going to see is Danny Rand as Daredevil in Daredevil Season 3, :D:D lol, in a yellow suit maybe even.  Hopefully, the same show runners will produce the same style of show, even if Danny is the devil.  Otherwise the Salt-Mines are going to be running overtime for the ironfist haters...  That's my prediction, and its based on having seen Defenders.... nuff said.

 

Edited by CBT
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13 hours ago, CBT said:

 

Ironfist is believed to be the second most watched of the Marvel/Netflix shows in its first 30 days, after only Daredevil season 2.

The people who don't like Ironfist, wont love Defenders because they are similar.  I think my comparison of Defenders as a hyrbid of Daredevil/Ironfist in terms of tone, feel, and style is very accurate.

The thing about Netflix is that the majority of the audience (not unlike MCU movies), are not comic book nerds.  If you ask around or observe the non-comic book readers that watch these shows, you'll find that the numbers do match the feedback you get.  They are the ones that made Ironfist put up such massive numbers, and it will be the same with Defenders.

If Daredevil released a season where he didnt fight, at all, and it was only talking and character development, it would still set records for viewership, but many of the people who love Daredevil Season 1/2 just for the fighting would say its awful.   Everyone has the right to their opinions, but its interesting this almost cognitive dissonance you see in some of these threads.  Beyond the usual, "if you dont like it, why do you care so much to take the time to come and complain", type deal, it genuinely seems like some people think Marvel is just going to put out 7 versions of Daredevil, each staring different characters...  Each show is going to be different.

Ultimately, content should not and cannot be produced only for the fanboi crowd, or it ends up sucking big time, and is not sophisticated enough for a mainstream/wider audience.  The Netflix show runners know what they are doing, and thank goodness, otherwise we would end up with garbage like Ben Affleck or Will Smith being shoehorned into comicbook shows/movies :sick:

Netflix is going to continue to have each of its Marvel shows have a unique genre and feel.  Defenders is always going to be a middle ground hybrid of Daredevil and Ironfist.  The Punisher will be the best show yet, and more than enough red meat for the people who dont understand an Ironfist or Defenders style show.

For the record, and my spoiler, i think the anti-Ironfist crowd is going to be crying even more:

  Reveal hidden contents

People are speculating on Born Again, etc, I think they are very wrong.   I think what you are going to see is Danny Rand as Daredevil in Daredevil Season 3, :D:D lol, in a yellow suit maybe even.  Hopefully, the same show runners will produce the same style of show, even if Danny is the devil.  Otherwise the Salt-Mines are going to be running overtime for the ironfist haters...  That's my prediction, and its based on having seen Defenders.... nuff said.

 

Huh...I disagree with your premise.

Even the non-comic nerds I know didn't like Iron Fist.

But they didn't like it in its totality, _after_ they watched it.

Many watched it at first out of curiosity, especially that of seeing a practicing white Buddhist.

People tuned into Iron Fist on the strength of Daredevil 1 & 2.  Of _course_ they watched it in its first month. That doesn't mean they liked the overall product, or that they'll tune in for another season.

Fool me twice, after all...

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2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Huh...I disagree with your premise.

Even the non-comic nerds I know didn't like Iron Fist.

But they didn't like it in its totality, _after_ they watched it.

Many watched it at first out of curiosity, especially that of seeing a practicing white Buddhist.

People tuned into Iron Fist on the strength of Daredevil 1 & 2.  Of _course_ they watched it in its first month. That doesn't mean they liked the overall product, or that they'll tune in for another season.

Fool me twice, after all...

That's true. 

Lots of people gave Iron Fist a chance based on the strength of the earlier netflix series'.

The viewing numbers have, in my opinion, a lot to do with the entire series being available at once.  People watched it all the way through because they could. While the final rating of the show and overall poor experience fans have noted are better measures of overall quality. 

You have to wonder, given the weakness of the writing, plotting, and acting on the part of the central character and without the backing of the hottest comic company in the TV/Movie biz behind it, if the show would have survived a full season on regular television where poor rating after premiere have tanked more than one show. 

It just wasn't well done, it wasn't a quality telling of that character's story, it wasn't a fully fleshed out character, it wasn't written well enough, smart enough,  or compelling enough to get the audience behind that character. He came off whiny, annoying, stupid, frustrating, weepy, petulant and immature and didn't progress far beyond that in Defenders. 
Iron Fist was a quality comic character. Batman's money and motivation. Bruce Lee's moves. Great mystical/martial arts backstory.  Yet they turned him into a plot device. He's the whiny catalyst for the story to move forward. He's the "one ring" in human form. He's turned into nothing more than bait at one point. He's not even smart enough to know he's being taunted into doing the bad guy's work for them when EVERYONE watching knows what's coming. 

They wrecked that character. He's Iron Fist in name only in his own series and Defenders. That's a shame. 

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Finished!

It was okay. Not super. Just okay.
 

Spoiler

 

Hated the mishandling of Sigourney Weaver's character. She survived for so long, and then allows herself to be tricked into being stabbed in the back - for real?

At least the ending confirmed the influence of 'Born Again' since even Charlie Cox has said publicly this is coming.

 

I'm more excited about The Punisher more than anything else from Netflix. That, and Stranger Things.

Edited by Bosco685
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Best part of Defenders series? Easy...it's the soundtrack. So many great versions of so many great songs all perfectly placed. 

 

Episode 7 opening was the best. Instrumental version of "Where did you sleep last night?" 

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I really enjoyed it, mainly because it was only 8 episodes. If it was 13 it would have gotten tedious. 

One thing I didn't like was that ...

Spoiler

Misty Knight and Colleen Wing didn't get together until the end.

 

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I really enjoyed it, as did my wife and our son.  Best parts by far were any time there was interaction between the three (sorry) leads... especially  Ritter and Cox.  Their scenes were fantastic.  I haven't seen Jones in anything other than that dreadful Iron Fist season to know if he's a bad actor or the material is just bad but he was marginially better here... but even so, I enjoyed the show best during the scenes where he was unconscious.  That does say something.   He did have some chemistry with Colter, but not nearly the chemistry the other two did.

I do hope now that in doing the subsequent seasons of the individual shows we now get some crossover, and that they figure out a way to reboot the Iron Fist character into something more interesting to stand up to the other three.

But overall, for eight episodes, we liked it. 

 

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It was decent but some things were odd to me. Elektra can take on all 4 but is pretty even with DD when they go at it. Luke went from indestructable to being punched and kicked around as much as he has to change outfits cause of bullet holes. Jess was just a B and annoying acting like she could care less about anything but I guess that is her character (still pretty bad). IF was a mad kid all the time which was pretty spot on from his series but I'd hoped he grow up a little. DD was cool as usual but the whole him and Elektra thing was getting old. 

I think all of the series are good when you think of what they are just a super hero tv series. These aren't hundreds of million dollar budget movies like Avengers, GotG etc so you kinda get what you get there.

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I am struggling to make it through Iron Fist... soon as I am done I will start on Defenders...

As a guy that does not watch a lot of TV though, Superhero fatigue is starting to set in.  I am starting to see some over saturation... 

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I just binged the whole thing in three days (lazy binge for 8 episodes)

 

Spoiler free mini-review:

Best Parts

Interaction of DD and JJ

Colleen Wing most scenes she's involved in

Luke Cage's fighting style was exactly what I would have thought it would be fighting in a group superhero context.  Though he did get beat up a little bit easily.  I would have preferred expert fighters to use his weight and momentum against him more. 

I thought the Japanese guy did a great job, especially the butchering scene (reminded me of Limehouse from Justified)

Signorney Weaver elevated a TERRIBLE character.  Hopefully she got paid a lot.

Pretty good music

I really liked Elektra and thought she did a great job.  I liked her more in this one DD.  The actress only seems to play one song, but she plays it very well, and played it even better this time.

I liked Cage's 'honor'.

 

Worst Parts

Finn Jones still pretty awful, but I think he did a better job this time of being whiny.

Too much side characters

Could have been 2 more episodes

Could have used a little more background on the Macguffin for the bad guys

Plot could have been smarter overall, not nearly as complex as most of the other shows.

Some of the cinematography for the big fight scenes was hard to follow.

 

Overall I liked it, but expected more.  7.5 out of 10, a little higher than Iron Fist.

 

Edited by revat
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On 8/22/2017 at 0:49 PM, comix4fun said:

That's true. 

Lots of people gave Iron Fist a chance based on the strength of the earlier netflix series'.

The viewing numbers have, in my opinion, a lot to do with the entire series being available at once.  People watched it all the way through because they could. While the final rating of the show and overall poor experience fans have noted are better measures of overall quality. 

You have to wonder, given the weakness of the writing, plotting, and acting on the part of the central character and without the backing of the hottest comic company in the TV/Movie biz behind it, if the show would have survived a full season on regular television where poor rating after premiere have tanked more than one show. 

It just wasn't well done, it wasn't a quality telling of that character's story, it wasn't a fully fleshed out character, it wasn't written well enough, smart enough,  or compelling enough to get the audience behind that character. He came off whiny, annoying, stupid, frustrating, weepy, petulant and immature and didn't progress far beyond that in Defenders. 
Iron Fist was a quality comic character. Batman's money and motivation. Bruce Lee's moves. Great mystical/martial arts backstory.  Yet they turned him into a plot device. He's the whiny catalyst for the story to move forward. He's the "one ring" in human form. He's turned into nothing more than bait at one point. He's not even smart enough to know he's being taunted into doing the bad guy's work for them when EVERYONE watching knows what's coming. 

They wrecked that character. He's Iron Fist in name only in his own series and Defenders. That's a shame. 

Agreed.

The acting overall in Iron Fist was TERRIBLE - and especially bad from the actors who play Iron Fist and Colleen - they are really really terrible in this show/series.  They are a bit better in defenders, but if Iron Fist had just been cast better from the Start I think both Iron Fist and Defenders would have been waaaaaaaay better.

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THE DEFENDERS Characters May Not Be Making The Leap To Disney's New Streaming Service After All

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Disney is the process of removing all of its films from Netflix and rival online streaming services because the company has one of its own currently in the works. One thing we have been wondering is what that means for characters like Daredevil, The Punisher, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage, with the prevailing opinion being that they'll all make the leap do Disney's unnamed streaming service instead.

Well, Netflix content chief Ted Sarandos has shared his thoughts on any potential complications in regards to the future of The Defenders, revealing to investors that the company has the rights to keep the series on the service (presumably because they invested in them) and that could mean they'll produce more shows featuring them. That, however, seems unlikely as they'd need Disney's say so.


"What Disney going direct to consumer means, I don’t really know and I’m not positive that they do either," he explained. "They’ve created some really killer brands. It’s not that exclusive… Netflix has the Defenders." If Disney does pull the plug on the future of The Defenders, that could mean characters like Daredevil and The Punisher will be brought to the big screen, possibly with new actors.

Sarandos concluded by saying that while Disney owns Marvel, they don't own all of Marvel's IPs outright and that can be read in one of two ways. Either Netflix will maintain the rights to the Marvel shows they've already produced or that they'll look to work with rival studios Fox and Sony Pictures to bring those characters to the small screen. Hopefully, more details on this will be revealed shortly.

 

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