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IRON FIST on Netflix
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327 posts in this topic

I wrapped it up last night and completely enjoyed it.  As for the first six episodes,  the same six that Marvel & Netflix released as a preview,  It's like the media wanted Marvel and Netflix to fail ... I think one writes an article and then they all just rewrite the same thing. Most probably didn't even watch the episodes. Even though the character is and has always been white, the majority of the bad reviews criticize Marvel for the white-washing and appropriation of Asian culture. Ignoring the fact that they themselves are being hypocritical by assuming that because the character has a background in martial arts, he should automatically be Asian. And It would have been fine as well if Marvel/Netflix had decided to cast an Asian actor as Danny Rand, but for critics to disregard the show because in this instance they chose to stay faithful to the source material is asinine. Most of them missed the point of the show/comic...a rich kid growing up in cutthroat corporate America realized the value of non-monetary culture. There are a few flaws, but overall I think it's very much on par with the rest of Marvel's Netflix offerings.

Edited by Doc McCoy
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11 minutes ago, Doc McCoy said:

I wrapped it up last night and completely enjoyed it.  As for the first six episodes,  the same six that Marvel & Netflix released as a preview,  It's like the media wanted Marvel and Netflix to fail ... I think one writes an article and then they all just rewrite the same thing. Most probably didn't even watch the episodes. Even though the character is and has always been white, the majority of the bad reviews criticize Marvel for the white-washing and appropriation of Asian culture. Ignoring the fact that they themselves are being hypocritical by assuming that because the character has a background in martial arts, he should automatically be Asian. And It would have been fine as well if Marvel/Netflix had decided to cast an Asian actor as Danny Rand, but for critics to disregard the show because in this instance they chose to stay faithful to the source material is asinine. Most of them missed the point of the show/comic...a rich kid growing up in cutthroat corporate America realized the value of non-monetary culture. There are a few flaws, but overall I think it's very much on par with the rest of Marvel's Netflix offerings.

I disagree with the premise that most of the critics are just arguing against the whitewashing.

Rather, what I've read are legitimate criticisms that the story's just not as interesting or compelling as the previous Marvel Netflix shows, let alone a lot of the other TV options available. And that Finn Jones just isn't a strong enough actor, particularly compared to the previous Marvel leads.

My favorite television critics are from The AV Club (The Onion). Here's excerpts from the first 6-episode review. And - at 5 episodes in, I tend to agree:

http://www.avclub.com/review/blandness-iron-fists-greatest-enemy-251943

  • Iron Fist "which spends a curious amount of time in a boardroom for a show about a guy who obtained his powers by sticking his fist into the heart of a dragon. But, please, tell us more about how important your real estate holdings are, Rand executives."
  • "the drama, such as it is, plays out in a punishingly dull manner; the corporate intrigue is telegraphed instead of hinted at, and the hostile takeovers are literal."
  • "If you’re actually familiar with and/or interested in this third-tier hero, then you’ve come for the high-flying action and heroic feats. And the scripts certainly call for them, but when the fights do unfold, they don’t pack much of a punch. They’re by-the-numbers brawls full of mostly interchangeable and unworthy adversaries."
  • "A more charismatic lead might have been able to buoy the leaden characterization, but Jones’ presence here is so bland that it does little to perk up the often workmanlike proceedings. The Game Of Thrones alum doesn’t have a handle on the role; he summons the same hurt, confused look when dealing with Ward and Joy as well as the show’s heavy, Madame Gao."

The episode-by-episode critiques (they're doing one per day, so three are up so far) tend to reflect the initial sentiments above (esp. criticism of the midling writing & Jones' acting, although in much greater detail. For episode 3, which the reviewer thought was the strongest of the first trio:

  • At one point Danny declares to Colleen, “I haven’t broken any laws.” Umm, what about the time you purchased and used a fraudulent passport, physically assaulted the guards of Rand Enterprises, broke into Rand Enterprises, trespassed in Joy’s house, attempted to steal Ward’s car, and escaped your mandatory stay in a psych ward by literally destroying one of the building’s walls?
  • Danny self-righteously telling Joy and Ward, “I have Hogarth now!” made me burst into laughter, which I don’t think was the desired response.

 

I still think it's interesting and I'm going to finish the series, but I think it's important that we comics fans be honest that the show that it could have been leagues better with a few basic tweaks to the casting and writing.

And it does us all a disservice to hide behind "critics are just annoyed Danny's not Asian and don't get that the character never was" when the _vast_ majority of the critiques go well beyond that and judge the show are far more legitimate grounds.

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Only just finished episode 2 last night and I had to take a break.  The 2 episode was so slow but based on this thread I know I just have to push thru the first half and it gets better.  How many times can they show the snow mountain scene in pieces?

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6 minutes ago, Gatsby771 said:

And it does us all a disservice to hide behind "critics are just annoyed Danny's not Asian and don't get that the character never was" when the _vast_ majority of the critiques go well beyond that and judge the show are far more legitimate grounds.

You're entitled to your opinion, I'll stand by mine.  If you've found a critic that falls in line with your opinion of the show, then more power to you.  However, I enjoyed it, it certainly wasn't the pure drek it was made out to be and in my opinion there were several early reviews and criticisms that didn't go beyond the fact that Marvel/Netflix didn't take the opportunity to cast an actor of Asian decent as Danny Rand.  No one is hiding behind anything and it's hardly a disservice to all of us, that's a bit melodramatic.  I didn't say it was a perfect show, very few of them are and if you want to set aside your suspension of disbelief and pick apart every flaw as the AV Club is doing episode by episode,  that's certainly possible.  

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Ok I just checked Rotten Tomatoes and Iron Fist is considered a stinker on there compared to Daredevil,Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage

I didn't realize how much Iron Fist is getting panned.

Lets look at them.

daredevil season 1 rotten tomatoes 98%

luke cage  rotten tomatoes                 96%

jessica jones  rotten tomatoes            93%

daredevil season 2  rotten tomatoes  78%

iron fist                    rotten tomatoes    16%     :o

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/marvel_s_iron_fist/s01/

Wow! What a big discrepancy!

I don't get it and find it very perplexing as why the critics absolutely loved the first 4 shows,but have disdain for Iron Fist?

btw put me in the camp that likes Iron Fist. I find it baffling as to why the big discrepancy.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ComicConnoisseur
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With only 2 episodes watched I put in line with Jessica Jones.  Not terrible but nothing I'm willing to stay up watching like I did for both Daredevils and Stranger Things.

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39 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

With only 2 episodes watched I put in line with Jessica Jones.  Not terrible but nothing I'm willing to stay up watching like I did for both Daredevils and Stranger Things.

Here is IMDB ratings

Daredevil 8.8

Jessica Jones 8.2

Iron Fist 8.1 

Luke Cage 7.8

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8 minutes ago, Rip said:

Here is IMDB ratings

Daredevil 8.8

Jessica Jones 8.2

Iron Fist 8.1 

Luke Cage 7.8

I found it tough watching Jessica Jones.... absolutely depressing.

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11 minutes ago, Rip said:

Here is IMDB ratings

Daredevil 8.8

Jessica Jones 8.2

Iron Fist 8.1 

Luke Cage 7.8

I'd go:

Daredevil 1 9.2

Daredevil 2 8.5

Luke Cage 8.0

Iron Fist (so far) - 7.6

Jessica Jones - 7.5

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2 hours ago, Gatsby771 said:

And it does us all a disservice to hide behind "critics are just annoyed Danny's not Asian and don't get that the character never was" when the _vast_ majority of the critiques go well beyond that and judge the show are far more legitimate grounds.

And we should just go by critics and ignore that audience scores are showing opposite of their opinions? Im sure you would agree that critics are probably not the best audience for comic material. Im in no way saying this was the best comic material and that it couldn't have been better in some ways, but it was entertaining to me and not as bad as the critics made it out to be. 

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48 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:
56 minutes ago, Rip said:

Here is IMDB ratings

Daredevil 8.8

Jessica Jones 8.2

Iron Fist 8.1 

Luke Cage 7.8

Much better than Rotten Tomatoes! (thumbsu

Pretty sure the IMDB ratings are fan ratings, not critical ratings like Rotten Tomatoes uses for their primary scoring.

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Two things:

1) I absolutely go with TV and movie critics over the anonymous online audience scores, particularly for aggregators like IMDB and Rotten Tomoatoes.

Because I work in PR and know exactly how easy those are to manipulate. And understand the incentive that companies have to do so, via legions of ghost accounts.

Also, you need to account for how (in particular) IMDB scores tend to fall over time, as it takes time to account for critical mass to accrue there. Give Iron Fist another six months, and I guarantee you it will rank far below Luke Cage in the IMDB audience score. (Which also makes Daredevil Season 1's ranking all the more impressive.)

2) The AV Club is my favorite source for TV reviews because not only do they basically draft 3-page essays for every major episode of TV, but those reviews are just a jumping off point for the discussion beneath.

Yesterday's Episode 3 review, for instance, already has more than 650 comments in less than 24 hours.

And the reviewer also notes things I missed or had forgotten, like that Colleen's star pupil Darryl was previously seen in an episode of Luke Cage.

Or that in episode 4, 

  • Spoiler

    As we’ve seen before, Ward has his dad listed in his phone as Frank N. Stein. That’s an even better gag now that we know Harold really did rise from the dead.

     

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31 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Pretty sure the IMDB ratings are fan ratings, not critical ratings like Rotten Tomatoes uses for their primary scoring.

Yep.

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I've watched 11 eps so far (1 or 2 left?)

BAD

1.  I understand why the critics don't like it.  The action isn't nearly as good as daredevil, and the main actor is generally not as believable, and nearly every other actor is better and makes him look bad.

2.  In line with #1, I'm much more interested in nearly every other character's storyline than I am about Danny's.  Which is both good and bad, but more bad than good. 

3.  The Buddhist/monk philosophies sound dumb coming from this the main actor.  It my be a product of the writing or directing, but he just doesn't seem earnest enough.

4.  Too dam much Rosario Dawson.  I like her and her character, but dam we've had a LOT of her in these series'.  I feel like a Karen Page cameo would have been reasonable. 

5.  The suspension of disbelief with regards to this one has to go to a new level.

GOOD

1. There's a lot of western stereotypes in general about how eastern philosophies and martial artists are somehow always calm and near enlightened, but I like how flawed Danny and Colleen are with respect to those stereotypes, and how destructive that can be.

2.  As with the rest of the Netflix marvels, I enjoy the directing which is both unique and a part of the same universe.  I like that this part universe is generally brighter. 

3.  The actual 'Iron Fist' is actually something pretty special in this show.

4.  Generally entertaining with good modernization of the legend.

5.  With the other Netflix shows I felt that they should have ended at episode 10. With this show, I feel like pacing is more consistent and I'm actually happy its going longer.

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Finished Iron Fist over the weekend.  I liked it, mostly.  It's not the best Netflix show, but it doesn't deserve all the horrible reviews.  I would have enjoyed more K'un Lun training/story flashbacks like how they handled the first couple seasons of "Arrow" on CW.  Some of the fight scenes were sloppy, but whatever.  And, all of the Marvel shows have had slow, long dialog scenes, not just Iron Fist.

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5 hours ago, Doc McCoy said:

I wrapped it up last night and completely enjoyed it.  As for the first six episodes,  the same six that Marvel & Netflix released as a preview,  It's like the media wanted Marvel and Netflix to fail ... I think one writes an article and then they all just rewrite the same thing. Most probably didn't even watch the episodes. Even though the character is and has always been white, the majority of the bad reviews criticize Marvel for the white-washing and appropriation of Asian culture. Ignoring the fact that they themselves are being hypocritical by assuming that because the character has a background in martial arts, he should automatically be Asian. And It would have been fine as well if Marvel/Netflix had decided to cast an Asian actor as Danny Rand, but for critics to disregard the show because in this instance they chose to stay faithful to the source material is asinine. Most of them missed the point of the show/comic...a rich kid growing up in cutthroat corporate America realized the value of non-monetary culture. There are a few flaws, but overall I think it's very much on par with the rest of Marvel's Netflix offerings.

Best post in the thread to summon it up. ^^

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One of the reason I also really like IMDB is that the fans review each episode. And you can see how many people voted in each one and the score break downs. So far its doing well. Although I agree that its still early. Will take a few weeks for people to fully weigh in. 

Iron Fist

Rating User
Votes
 
1.12  Bar the Big Boss 9.0 336
  9/10 
1.13  Dragon Plays with Fire 8.8 363
  8.8/10 
1.10  Black Tiger Steals Heart 8.7 351
  8.7/10 
1.6  Immortal Emerges from Cave 8.7 583
  8.7/10 
1.7  Felling Tree with Roots 8.6 478
  8.6/10 
1.4  Eight Diagram Dragon Palm 8.6 734
  8.6/10 
1.11  Lead Horse Back to Stable 8.4 314
  8.4/10 
1.9  The Mistress of All Agonies 8.4 370
  8.4/10 
1.5  Under Leaf Pluck Lotus 8.4 617
  8.4/10 
1.8  The Blessing of Many Fractures 8.4 429
  8.4/10 
1.3  Rolling Thunder Cannon Punch 8.1 847
  8.1/10 
1.2  Shadow Hawk Takes Flight 8.0 1,030
  8.0/10 
1.1  Snow Gives Way 7.7 1,355
  7.7/10 

 

Luke Cage

1.7  Manifest 8.7 1,759
  8.7/10 
1.4  Step in the Arena 8.6 1,989
  8.6/10 
1.11  Now You're Mine 8.5 1,519
  8.5/10 
1.3  Who's Gonna Take the Weight? 8.5 1,989
  8.5/10 
1.12  Soliloquy of Chaos 8.4 1,532
  8.4/10 
1.2  Code of the Streets 8.4 2,166
  8.4/10 
1.8  Blowin' Up the Spot 8.3 1,606
  8.3/10 
1.6  Suckas Need Bodyguards 8.3 1,690
  8.3/10 
1.10  Take It Personal 8.2 1,496
  8.2/10 
1.5  Just to Get a Rep 8.2 1,764
  8.2/10 
1.13  You Know My Steez 8.1 1,568
  8.1/10 
1.9  DWYCK 8.1 1,534
  8.1/10 
1.1  Moment of Truth 7.9 2,576
  7.9/10 

 


 

Edited by Rip
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