How To Tell Marvel Graphic Novel printings 3 3

[RockMyAmadeus]

The Marvel Graphic Novels, especially #1-5, were reprinted multiple times, without much indication that they were reprints. This is very confusing. Marvel production didn't consider, at the time, that this could create problems. Nobody thought of it at the time, because no one knew we'd be discussing it nearly 35 years later.

 

So, let's discuss.

 

MGN #1 - First printing should have a SINGLE $5.95 cover price, with "frumpy font" (my term), that is, thick and heavy, for the price.

 

MGN #2 - First printing should have a SINGLE $5.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #3 - First printing should have a SINGLE $4.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #4 - First printing should have a SINGLE $4.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #5 - First printing should have a DOUBLE $5.95/$6.95 cover price, sleeker font.

 

Thereafter, the MGNs all had a double price.

 

IMPORTANT: - Look at the INDICIA page. If you see a PRINTER'S KEY:

 

"10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1"

 

and it's missing the 1, or the 1 and 2, or the 1 and 2 and 3, and so on, it's NOT a first printing.

 

Also...if it says "XXXXX printing", it's obviously a later printing.

 

I'm willing to be convinced that $5.95 single is Canadian...but it would take some compelling evidence. There's no precedent for it, obviously, and at the time these were being printed, there wasn't a need quite yet for a dual price....which is why you see later printings WITH the dual pricing.

 

Remember...up until 1982, and for a decade plus before that, the US and Canadian dollars traded essentially at par. So, there was no need for "separate pricing" until it was instituted with the OCT 1982 cover dates. Prior to that, it was the same price for standard comics, whether distributed in the US or Canada.

 

The first four MGNs, being early to mid 1982 books, also fit under this scheme. There's no reason to assume that there was a "special Canadian version", when there's absolutely no indication that such was necessary until the last quarter (cover dates) of 1982.

 

Because MGN #4 is on the cusp, however, I'm willing to consider that it might be a special case...but there would have to be proof or, barring that, compelling circumstantial evidence (such as being on the cusp of the change.)

[manetteska]

Any pictures to show what a "frumpy" font looks like?

 

And a "sleek" one, for that matter.

Edited May 14, 2015 by manetteska

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

$5.95 = original frumpy, fat, heavy font.

 

$6.95 Can = Sleeker font.

[Plantman]

The Marvel Graphic Novels, especially #1-5, were reprinted multiple times, without much indication that they were reprints. This is very confusing. Marvel production didn't consider, at the time, that this could create problems. Nobody thought of it at the time, because no one knew we'd be discussing it nearly 35 years later.

 

So, let's discuss.

 

MGN #1 - First printing should have a SINGLE $5.95 cover price, with "frumpy font" (my term), that is, thick and heavy, for the price.

 

MGN #2 - First printing should have a SINGLE $5.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #3 - First printing should have a SINGLE $4.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #4 - First printing should have a SINGLE $4.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #5 - First printing should have a DOUBLE $5.95/$6.95 cover price, sleeker font.

 

Thereafter, the MGNs all had a double price.

 

IMPORTANT: - Look at the INDICIA page. If you see a PRINTER'S KEY:

 

"10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1"

 

and it's missing the 1, or the 1 and 2, or the 1 and 2 and 3, and so on, it's NOT a first printing.

 

Also...if it says "XXXXX printing", it's obviously a later printing.

 

I'm willing to be convinced that $5.95 single is Canadian...but it would take some compelling evidence. There's no precedent for it, obviously, and at the time these were being printed, there wasn't a need quite yet for a dual price....which is why you see later printings WITH the dual pricing.

 

Remember...up until 1982, and for a decade plus before that, the US and Canadian dollars traded essentially at par. So, there was no need for "separate pricing" until it was instituted with the OCT 1982 cover dates. Prior to that, it was the same price for standard comics, whether distributed in the US or Canada.

 

The first four MGNs, being early to mid 1982 books, also fit under this scheme. There's no reason to assume that there was a "special Canadian version", when there's absolutely no indication that such was necessary until the last quarter (cover dates) of 1982.

 

Because MGN #4 is on the cusp, however, I'm willing to consider that it might be a special case...but there would have to be proof or, barring that, compelling circumstantial evidence (such as being on the cusp of the change.)

 

 

I may have found something on that Copyright Records website about which you told me:

 

no. 5. Claimant: Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation. Issue title: X-Men : God loves, man kills / by Christopher Claremont and Brent Eric Anderson. Created 1982; Pub. 1982-08-24; Reg. 1983-07-25; TX0001163015

no. 4. Claimant: Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation. Issue title: The New Mutants. Appl. author: text & ill.: Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation, employer for hire. Created 1982; Pub. 1982-09-21; Reg. 1983-07-25; TX0001163222

I bolded the salient text.

 

So I am guessing The New Mutants was delayed (but already had the cover printed), and Marvel decided to print off a small portion of Canadian price covers instead of trashing a bunch of single-price covers.

[divad]

The Marvel Graphic Novels, especially #1-5, were reprinted multiple times, without much indication that they were reprints. This is very confusing. Marvel production didn't consider, at the time, that this could create problems. Nobody thought of it at the time, because no one knew we'd be discussing it nearly 35 years later.

 

So, let's discuss.

 

MGN #1 - First printing should have a SINGLE $5.95 cover price, with "frumpy font" (my term), that is, thick and heavy, for the price.

 

MGN #2 - First printing should have a SINGLE $5.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #3 - First printing should have a SINGLE $4.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #4 - First printing should have a SINGLE $4.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #5 - First printing should have a DOUBLE $5.95/$6.95 cover price, sleeker font.

 

Thereafter, the MGNs all had a double price.

 

IMPORTANT: - Look at the INDICIA page. If you see a PRINTER'S KEY:

 

"10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1"

 

and it's missing the 1, or the 1 and 2, or the 1 and 2 and 3, and so on, it's NOT a first printing.

 

Also...if it says "XXXXX printing", it's obviously a later printing.

 

I'm willing to be convinced that $5.95 single is Canadian...but it would take some compelling evidence. There's no precedent for it, obviously, and at the time these were being printed, there wasn't a need quite yet for a dual price....which is why you see later printings WITH the dual pricing.

 

Remember...up until 1982, and for a decade plus before that, the US and Canadian dollars traded essentially at par. So, there was no need for "separate pricing" until it was instituted with the OCT 1982 cover dates. Prior to that, it was the same price for standard comics, whether distributed in the US or Canada.

 

The first four MGNs, being early to mid 1982 books, also fit under this scheme. There's no reason to assume that there was a "special Canadian version", when there's absolutely no indication that such was necessary until the last quarter (cover dates) of 1982.

 

Because MGN #4 is on the cusp, however, I'm willing to consider that it might be a special case...but there would have to be proof or, barring that, compelling circumstantial evidence (such as being on the cusp of the change.)

 

 

I may have found something on that Copyright Records website about which you told me:

 

no. 5. Claimant: Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation. Issue title: X-Men : God loves, man kills / by Christopher Claremont and Brent Eric Anderson. Created 1982; Pub. 1982-08-24; Reg. 1983-07-25; TX0001163015

no. 4. Claimant: Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation. Issue title: The New Mutants. Appl. author: text & ill.: Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation, employer for hire. Created 1982; Pub. 1982-09-21; Reg. 1983-07-25; TX0001163222

I bolded the salient text.

 

So I am guessing The New Mutants was delayed (but already had the cover printed), and Marvel decided to print off a small portion of Canadian price covers instead of trashing a bunch of single-price covers.

 

All very interesting. (thumbs u Anecdotally, the run of MGNs from one of the collections I bought starts at #5, and there is no #4.

 

And, one of my #5's is a later print . . . (still a sweet copy, though)

[RockMyAmadeus]

The Marvel Graphic Novels, especially #1-5, were reprinted multiple times, without much indication that they were reprints. This is very confusing. Marvel production didn't consider, at the time, that this could create problems. Nobody thought of it at the time, because no one knew we'd be discussing it nearly 35 years later.

 

So, let's discuss.

 

MGN #1 - First printing should have a SINGLE $5.95 cover price, with "frumpy font" (my term), that is, thick and heavy, for the price.

 

MGN #2 - First printing should have a SINGLE $5.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #3 - First printing should have a SINGLE $4.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #4 - First printing should have a SINGLE $4.95 cover price, frumpy font.

 

MGN #5 - First printing should have a DOUBLE $5.95/$6.95 cover price, sleeker font.

 

Thereafter, the MGNs all had a double price.

 

IMPORTANT: - Look at the INDICIA page. If you see a PRINTER'S KEY:

 

"10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1"

 

and it's missing the 1, or the 1 and 2, or the 1 and 2 and 3, and so on, it's NOT a first printing.

 

Also...if it says "XXXXX printing", it's obviously a later printing.

 

I'm willing to be convinced that $5.95 single is Canadian...but it would take some compelling evidence. There's no precedent for it, obviously, and at the time these were being printed, there wasn't a need quite yet for a dual price....which is why you see later printings WITH the dual pricing.

 

Remember...up until 1982, and for a decade plus before that, the US and Canadian dollars traded essentially at par. So, there was no need for "separate pricing" until it was instituted with the OCT 1982 cover dates. Prior to that, it was the same price for standard comics, whether distributed in the US or Canada.

 

The first four MGNs, being early to mid 1982 books, also fit under this scheme. There's no reason to assume that there was a "special Canadian version", when there's absolutely no indication that such was necessary until the last quarter (cover dates) of 1982.

 

Because MGN #4 is on the cusp, however, I'm willing to consider that it might be a special case...but there would have to be proof or, barring that, compelling circumstantial evidence (such as being on the cusp of the change.)

 

 

I may have found something on that Copyright Records website about which you told me:

 

no. 5. Claimant: Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation. Issue title: X-Men : God loves, man kills / by Christopher Claremont and Brent Eric Anderson. Created 1982; Pub. 1982-08-24; Reg. 1983-07-25; TX0001163015

no. 4. Claimant: Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation. Issue title: The New Mutants. Appl. author: text & ill.: Marvel Comics Group, a division of Cadence Industries Corporation, employer for hire. Created 1982; Pub. 1982-09-21; Reg. 1983-07-25; TX0001163222

I bolded the salient text.

 

So I am guessing The New Mutants was delayed (but already had the cover printed), and Marvel decided to print off a small portion of Canadian price covers instead of trashing a bunch of single-price covers.

 

That's interesting information indeed.

 

 

I wonder if any distribution records remain...

 

The Copyright Office info has been known to be incorrect.

 

For example: the entry for Superman #75 is a couple of weeks off.

 

no. 75, Jan93. Claimant: DC Comics, Inc. (employer for hire) Created 1992; Pub. 1992-12-08; Reg. 1993-02-16; TX0003489382

 

When we know the actual pub date was the third week of Nov.

 

Credit where credit is due: Divad was the one who led me to the Copyright Office search.

 

 

[Vger7]

I can confirm that the Canadian single price $5.95 variant does exist. I've got 4 copies MGN#4, all first prints, 2 of them priced at the US $4.95 and the remaining 2 priced at the CAD $5.95. However, not sure if the price variant makes it much more valuable...

[RockMyAmadeus]

I can confirm that the Canadian single price $5.95 variant does exist. I've got 4 copies MGN#4, all first prints, 2 of them priced at the US $4.95 and the remaining 2 priced at the CAD $5.95. However, not sure if the price variant makes it much more valuable...

 

The question isn't whether the $5.95 single price versions exist, but rather what they are...reprints, Canadian versions, or something else?

 

Remember: the later print MGNs are not all identified in obvious ways.

[NewEnglandGothic]

IMPORTANT: - Look at the INDICIA page. If you see a PRINTER'S KEY:

 

"10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1"

 

and it's missing the 1, or the 1 and 2, or the 1 and 2 and 3, and so on, it's NOT a first printing.

 

Also...if it says "XXXXX printing", it's obviously a later printing.

 

Long time reader, first time poster.

I was grading Nancy Drew: Girl Detectives (a modern) a while back, which are basically trade digests, and they only showed their different impression numbers to show what printing they were on. I only bothered with first impression ones first, but I was wondering if CGC would acknowledge a sixth impression as a first print, if it doesn't actually state "First Printing" or any other one. I called once (a few of years ago, but the lady had no idea what I was talking about and immediately dismissed me).

Thanks.

[Wall-Crawler]

I have a copy of MGN #4, $5.95 Price Edition.

 

There is nothing to indicate which printing it is on the indicia.

 

I'm in Canada and I picked two of these up as part of an OO collection that sat in someone's basement for well over 30 years (if not more), I just assumed these were Canadian Price Editions.

 

I will have to double check now my copies of MGN #1...

 

I can include pics when I get home from work and not sure if this helps but interesting discussion.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Wall-Crawler

[Transplant]

RMA, are you sure the $4.95 cover price is in the thicker font? 1. Broke as a joke just listed a MGN #4 that CGC doesn't note as a later print. 2. My copy with the same font does not have any indicia to indicate a later printing either.

[RockMyAmadeus]

RMA, are you sure the $4.95 cover price is in the thicker font? 1. Broke as a joke just listed a MGN #4 that CGC doesn't note as a later print. 2. My copy with the same font does not have any indicia to indicate a later printing either.

 

Post pictures?

 

Here's one of mine:

 

 

Here's someone who identifies theirs as a second printing:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Graphic-Novel-New-Mutants-4-1982-VG-FN-2nd-Print-1st-New-Mutants-/371331266534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56751177e6

 

Here's the "skinny" $5.95 font:

 

 

And here's Comicwiz' listing, which is absolutely filled with inaccuracies:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-New-Mutants-1-Marvel-Graphic-Novel-4-Price-Variants-Beauties-/321760537971?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aea6c2d73

 

That listing is so inaccurate, it should be removed. I have no idea where he comes up with these numbers.

 

This "Canadian variant" business probably isn't accurate. On the one hand, while yes, this was right about the time that the exchange rate changed enough to make it worth doing, the fact is, these Graphic Novels were Direct market books, and certainly not available on newsstands, through newsstand distribution.

 

I'd be gladly proven wrong, but of the original MGNs, there aren't any "newsstand" copies.

 

The whole point of the "Canadian variant" was for newsstand distribution. These MGNs came out before and during the transition. The Direct market regular books had the Canadian price added with the Oct 1982 cover dates...and so did the MGNs (see #5, God Loves, Man Kills.) The very reason there was a different newsstand price was because those books were solely intended for the Canadian newsstand.

 

Thus, we see later printings (and, starting with #5, all of them) with dual prices, just like the Direct market regular books.

 

So, this whole "Canadian version" is pretty dubious.

 

While it's possible that the $5.95 is a "Canadian version", why would they print a different version using an entirely different font for the price, rather than just using the original font, which already had a "5" in the price?

[Plantman]

I can only find three active listings for MGN #4 in Canada. All three are single priced $5.95 copies.

 

I quickly looked through the active, single priced U.S. listings and found 1 $5.95 copy and 22 $4.95 copies.

 

Hmmm...

[Plantman]

...While it's possible that the $5.95 is a "Canadian version", why would they print a different version using an entirely different font for the price, rather than just using the original font, which already had a "5" in the price?

 

I think they were tinkering with different fonts at the time. Note the change in "No." and "$" between MGN #3 and MGN #4.

[Broke as a Joke]

Maybe every Canadian copy is a later printing....

 

Fuel to the fire

[RockMyAmadeus]

I can only find three active listings for MGN #4 in Canada. All three are single priced $5.95 copies.

 

I quickly looked through the active, single priced U.S. listings and found 1 $5.95 copy and 22 $4.95 copies.

 

Hmmm...

 

For there to be a "Canadian version", they would be understandably rare.

 

Put it this way: there are 125 or so Spidey #252s. Of those, only 5 are Canadian versions, or 4%.

 

There are 44 copies of MGN #4 currently listed (I counted)....and there are FOUR supposed "Canadian versions" listed for sale...? (I didn't count the "$5.95 single price" ones, I'll take your word that there are four.)

 

Nearly 10% of the listings are these "Canadian versions"...?

 

 

And, while there are LATER editions that have UPC codes....the 6th printing, for example...those early supposed "Canadian versions" do NOT have UPC codes...and, again, the "Canadian versions" for REGULAR books were intended solely for the Canadian newsstand.

 

Soooo....

 

Not conclusive, for sure, but there's too much that doesn't add up yet.

[RockMyAmadeus]

...While it's possible that the $5.95 is a "Canadian version", why would they print a different version using an entirely different font for the price, rather than just using the original font, which already had a "5" in the price?

 

I think they were tinkering with different fonts at the time. Note the change in "No." and "$" between MGN #3 and MGN #4.

 

True, but...within a single run, the font is not generally going to be different between "US versions" and "Canadian versions", if such exist, since they would be printed at exactly the same time.

 

Again, not conclusive...after all, there was nothing stopping them from having a completely different font for the "Canadian run"....but it's much more likely that the same font, within the same run, is used.

 

Look at the regular books: the font for Canadian newsstands, and same priced regular US newsstands is identical.

 

But the most inconclusive of all....the regular Canadian versions were specifically printed for Canadian newsstands. These were Direct market books. There wouldn't be a need...yet....to print a "special Canadian price version", just like there is no special Canadian price version for Wolverine Limited #1, for example...but there IS for #2 and so on.

 

And, there are "dual priced" versions that came later, which recognized the changing Canadian price.

 

Two scenarios:

 

1. The $5.95 single price is a later printing, but made BEFORE the dual pricing.

 

2. The $5.95 single price is, in fact, a special Canadian version.

 

The cutoff transition for regular books is the Oct, 1982 cover date. Before then, no difference for Canada. After that, special Canadian pricing, both on the Direct and newsstand versions.

 

But these books came BEFORE the transition, at least #1-3. Marvel says MGN #4 came out in November, but does that mean Nov release, or Nov "cover date"? Regardless, it would be PAST the Oct, 1982 transition...but, then, why would they neglect to put dual prices on this book from the start, as they did with #5? Oversight?

 

Here are prices:

 

#1 - $5.95, no single price differences (Marvel says April, 1982), later printings have dual price. Second printing is ALSO $5.95 single price. Third printing is ALSO $5.95 single price. 4th printing is DUAL price.

 

#2 - $5.95, no single price differences. (Marvel says July, 1982) No later printings?

 

#3 - $4.95, with single price $5.95 (Marvel says Auguest, 1982), second printing is single price, $4.95. Third printing single price $4.95. 4th printing dual price.

 

#4 - $4.95, with single price $5.95 (Marvel says Nov 1982) Second printing dual price.

 

These are all reported, I don't have them in hand to confirm for sure.

 

Why is there a $5.95 single price version for MGN #3, which was BEFORE the transition, a few months before, in fact?

 

But....the "2nd printing" MGN #4 has dual pricing, which leads quite a bit of weight to the "Canadian version" scenario.

 

I wish I could get my hands on these single price $5.95 versions. I suspect some of them indicate that they are later printings, and some may not. I'll have to check my other MGNs, too. I'm not convinced, either way.

 

I know that I have seen $5.95 single price versions frequently throughout California, and this wouldn't be a normal place for Canadian versions.

 

Maybe Shooter would remember....

 

 

[bellrules]

I just looked at one of my 5.95 versions and there is no indication (inside or out) that it is a later printing. Where should it be indicated? No barcodes on the book either btw

[Plantman]

I can only find three active listings for MGN #4 in Canada. All three are single priced $5.95 copies.

 

I quickly looked through the active, single priced U.S. listings and found 1 $5.95 copy and 22 $4.95 copies.

 

Hmmm...

 

For there to be a "Canadian version", they would be understandably rare.

 

Put it this way: there are 125 or so Spidey #252s. Of those, only 5 are Canadian versions, or 4%.

 

There are 44 copies of MGN #4 currently listed (I counted)....and there are FOUR supposed "Canadian versions" listed for sale...? (I didn't count the "$5.95 single price" ones, I'll take your word that there are four.)

 

Nearly 10% of the listings are these "Canadian versions"...?

 

 

And, while there are LATER editions that have UPC codes....the 6th printing, for example...those early supposed "Canadian versions" do NOT have UPC codes...and, again, the "Canadian versions" for REGULAR books were intended solely for the Canadian newsstand.

 

Soooo....

 

Not conclusive, for sure, but there's too much that doesn't add up yet.

 

I counted 137 completed listings on eBay using the search team "marvel graphic novel 4" (not in quotation marks) between Mar. 1, 2015 and May 24, 2015. Two listings had no image of the book but two other listings had two books each. There were at least two re-listings, so let's say the total number was between 130-135.

 

Of those, I counted 7 "5.95 single price" ones. 4 were from Canada, 3 were from the U.S.

 

So about half the completed listings from Canada are "$5.95 single price" ones.

 

And about 2.5% of completed listings from the U.S. are $5.95 single price" ones.

 

Hmmm...

[RockMyAmadeus]

I can only find three active listings for MGN #4 in Canada. All three are single priced $5.95 copies.

 

I quickly looked through the active, single priced U.S. listings and found 1 $5.95 copy and 22 $4.95 copies.

 

Hmmm...

 

For there to be a "Canadian version", they would be understandably rare.

 

Put it this way: there are 125 or so Spidey #252s. Of those, only 5 are Canadian versions, or 4%.

 

There are 44 copies of MGN #4 currently listed (I counted)....and there are FOUR supposed "Canadian versions" listed for sale...? (I didn't count the "$5.95 single price" ones, I'll take your word that there are four.)

 

Nearly 10% of the listings are these "Canadian versions"...?

 

 

And, while there are LATER editions that have UPC codes....the 6th printing, for example...those early supposed "Canadian versions" do NOT have UPC codes...and, again, the "Canadian versions" for REGULAR books were intended solely for the Canadian newsstand.

 

Soooo....

 

Not conclusive, for sure, but there's too much that doesn't add up yet.

 

I counted 137 completed listings on eBay using the search team "marvel graphic novel 4" (not in quotation marks) between Mar. 1, 2015 and May 24, 2015. Two listings had no image of the book but two other listings had two books each. There were at least two re-listings, so let's say the total number was between 130-135.

 

Of those, I counted 7 "5.95 single price" ones. 4 were from Canada, 3 were from the U.S.

 

So about half the completed listings from Canada are "$5.95 single price" ones.

 

And about 2.5% of completed listings from the U.S. are $5.95 single price" ones.

 

Hmmm...

 

Very interesting, but not conclusive. But circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

 

I searched completed listings through eBay.ca, and confined the search to "marvel novel 4 -handbook." I got 6 results, 3 of which were $5.95, 2 of which were $4.95, and one of which was a dual price.

 

Still too small a sample size.

 

If you can repeat those results for a much larger sample size, you may be on to something.