How To Tell Marvel Graphic Novel printings
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My 40 cent Cdn copy's indicia mentions only the 35 cent price. Is that what you meant? I'm not familiar with the article.

 

Yes. The article appears in the 40th edition of the OS guide. Worth getting it as a back issue guide just for the article as it breaks down all variant types precisely. Doug assisted with the article.

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That's not how the word "Premium" is generally used. "Premium" means "above and beyond the price being compared."

 

A 150% to 500% premium would mean that if a regular copy, all other things being equal, sells for $100, then the 150% premium would put the item at $250. A 500% premium would put that $100 item at $600. The "premium" is above and beyond the regular price.

 

150% more than $100 is $250. 100% more than $100 is $200.

 

Therefore, $75, while it may be 179% of $42, is not a "179% premium" over the $42 selling price. That's not how it's calculated. 100% more than $42 is $84. 150% more than $42 is $105. A 179% premium over $42 would be $117.

 

All this is true. And I think I see where the problem is - I think you are misreading Sulipa's statement due to his lack of punctuation. If we look again, he says "NOTE; (The Canadian Newsstand Cover Price Variants COMICS, Printed in the USA but only Sold in Canada, from the 1982-1986 Era REGULARILY Bring PREMIUMS Sell for 150% to 500% of the Prices of the Common USA Printings". It seems clear that there is a period missing after "PREMIUMS." He doesn't say they sell for "150% to 500% premiums", in which case your revised statement would be correct. He simply says "Sell for 150% to 500% of the Prices of the Common USA Printings", which your example shows once case that fits.

 

I make no claim as to whether his statement is correct or even plausible at the extreme of 500% of the US printings, just that your original assertion that the difference in your own example was 56% did the math backwards. You have given one example that fits within the range (179% of the US price) and one that did not (111% of the US price).

 

Yes, you are correct. I did that one backwards, dividing 42 by 75, rather than the difference (33) by 42, which is the correct way to do it. $75 would be a 78.5% premium over $42, or 178.5% OF the original price.

 

While RMA is someone whose posts I always trust implicitly, I think ttfitz is correct on this one. If you look at Sulipa's annual market reports in the OPG (and they are always among the most valuable of the reports), he has always expressed prices as a % of guide value. He's described things this way for many years, now.

 

And yes, his punctuation, especially on his website, is atrocious...

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That's not how the word "Premium" is generally used. "Premium" means "above and beyond the price being compared."

 

A 150% to 500% premium would mean that if a regular copy, all other things being equal, sells for $100, then the 150% premium would put the item at $250. A 500% premium would put that $100 item at $600. The "premium" is above and beyond the regular price.

 

150% more than $100 is $250. 100% more than $100 is $200.

 

Therefore, $75, while it may be 179% of $42, is not a "179% premium" over the $42 selling price. That's not how it's calculated. 100% more than $42 is $84. 150% more than $42 is $105. A 179% premium over $42 would be $117.

 

All this is true. And I think I see where the problem is - I think you are misreading Sulipa's statement due to his lack of punctuation. If we look again, he says "NOTE; (The Canadian Newsstand Cover Price Variants COMICS, Printed in the USA but only Sold in Canada, from the 1982-1986 Era REGULARILY Bring PREMIUMS Sell for 150% to 500% of the Prices of the Common USA Printings". It seems clear that there is a period missing after "PREMIUMS." He doesn't say they sell for "150% to 500% premiums", in which case your revised statement would be correct. He simply says "Sell for 150% to 500% of the Prices of the Common USA Printings", which your example shows once case that fits.

 

I make no claim as to whether his statement is correct or even plausible at the extreme of 500% of the US printings, just that your original assertion that the difference in your own example was 56% did the math backwards. You have given one example that fits within the range (179% of the US price) and one that did not (111% of the US price).

 

Yes, you are correct. I did that one backwards, dividing 42 by 75, rather than the difference (33) by 42, which is the correct way to do it. $75 would be a 78.5% premium over $42, or 178.5% OF the original price.

 

While RMA is someone whose posts I always trust implicitly, I think ttfitz is correct on this one. If you look at Sulipa's annual market reports in the OPG (and they are always among the most valuable of the reports), he has always expressed prices as a % of guide value. He's described things this way for many years, now.

 

And yes, his punctuation, especially on his website, is atrocious...

 

Not a problem regarding looking at Sulipa's statement incorrectly (and thanks for the upvote!), but whether the number is 150% to 500% OF the regular value, or 150% to 500% OVER the regular price doesn't make too great a difference. Either way, those thresholds aren't being met.

 

Unfortunately, the vast majority of these books aren't worth enough to paint a clear picture about how they're selling on eBay or elsewhere, but a lot of these books have sold recently for $1-$2...but shipping costs and not knowing if there's combining muddies the situation up to uselessness.

 

If we look at more valuable books, we don't see the large percentage differences, even in the most valuable of books. Example: Tales of the Teen Titans #44. In Feb of this year, a 9.8 Canadian edition sold for $425 (a record.)

 

But in Feb, there were 4 sales of regular 9.8s, and they sold for:

 

Feb-22-2015 $350

Feb-17-2015 $340

Feb-09-2015 $360

Feb-05-2015 $360

 

The same day that the Canadian 9.8 sold, the $340 regular sale also happened. $425 is only 125% of $340, or a 25% premium. The others are, of course, a bit less.

 

I'm not knocking Canadian versions, not at all. I love them, and have been actively buying them for as long as I've been aware of their existence. And absolutely there is a small subset of collectors who would buy these versions, and pay a small premium for them. And I would be perfectly happy if they sold for the premiums Sulipa is stating...but there doesn't seem to be any data that supports anything but the lowest end of his claimed premiums.

 

But...the issue was factual accuracy, and Comicwiz brought Sulipa's name into the mix, and then tied himself to both Sulipa and Krause, as if they were in full agreement with what he was saying. And I don't see the 150% to 500% (the latter an astonishing number) anywhere we look. Sure, we can find examples in the 150% to 200% range....but 500%? A $10 regular book selling for $30, $40, $50 as a Canadian? A $100 book selling for $300, $400, $500?

 

Sure, a $1 book selling for $5, ok. But if that's the case, it's a little disingenuous, no?

 

hm

 

At this time, the market just doesn't care as much about Canadian versions as much as Doug Sulipa is suggesting.

 

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That's not how the word "Premium" is generally used. "Premium" means "above and beyond the price being compared."

 

A 150% to 500% premium would mean that if a regular copy, all other things being equal, sells for $100, then the 150% premium would put the item at $250. A 500% premium would put that $100 item at $600. The "premium" is above and beyond the regular price.

 

150% more than $100 is $250. 100% more than $100 is $200.

 

Therefore, $75, while it may be 179% of $42, is not a "179% premium" over the $42 selling price. That's not how it's calculated. 100% more than $42 is $84. 150% more than $42 is $105. A 179% premium over $42 would be $117.

 

All this is true. And I think I see where the problem is - I think you are misreading Sulipa's statement due to his lack of punctuation. If we look again, he says "NOTE; (The Canadian Newsstand Cover Price Variants COMICS, Printed in the USA but only Sold in Canada, from the 1982-1986 Era REGULARILY Bring PREMIUMS Sell for 150% to 500% of the Prices of the Common USA Printings". It seems clear that there is a period missing after "PREMIUMS." He doesn't say they sell for "150% to 500% premiums", in which case your revised statement would be correct. He simply says "Sell for 150% to 500% of the Prices of the Common USA Printings", which your example shows once case that fits.

 

I make no claim as to whether his statement is correct or even plausible at the extreme of 500% of the US printings, just that your original assertion that the difference in your own example was 56% did the math backwards. You have given one example that fits within the range (179% of the US price) and one that did not (111% of the US price).

 

Yes, you are correct. I did that one backwards, dividing 42 by 75, rather than the difference (33) by 42, which is the correct way to do it. $75 would be a 78.5% premium over $42, or 178.5% OF the original price.

 

While RMA is someone whose posts I always trust implicitly, I think ttfitz is correct on this one. If you look at Sulipa's annual market reports in the OPG (and they are always among the most valuable of the reports), he has always expressed prices as a % of guide value. He's described things this way for many years, now.

 

And yes, his punctuation, especially on his website, is atrocious...

 

Not a problem regarding looking at Sulipa's statement incorrectly (and thanks for the upvote!), but whether the number is 150% to 500% OF the regular value, or 150% to 500% OVER the regular price doesn't make too great a difference. Either way, those thresholds aren't being met.

 

Unfortunately, the vast majority of these books aren't worth enough to paint a clear picture about how they're selling on eBay or elsewhere, but a lot of these books have sold recently for $1-$2...but shipping costs and not knowing if there's combining muddies the situation up to uselessness.

 

If we look at more valuable books, we don't see the large percentage differences, even in the most valuable of books. Example: Tales of the Teen Titans #44. In Feb of this year, a 9.8 Canadian edition sold for $425 (a record.)

 

But in Feb, there were 4 sales of regular 9.8s, and they sold for:

 

Feb-22-2015 $350

Feb-17-2015 $340

Feb-09-2015 $360

Feb-05-2015 $360

 

The same day that the Canadian 9.8 sold, the $340 regular sale also happened. $425 is only 125% of $340, or a 25% premium. The others are, of course, a bit less.

 

I'm not knocking Canadian versions, not at all. I love them, and have been actively buying them for as long as I've been aware of their existence. And absolutely there is a small subset of collectors who would buy these versions, and pay a small premium for them. And I would be perfectly happy if they sold for the premiums Sulipa is stating...but there doesn't seem to be any data that supports anything but the lowest end of his claimed premiums.

 

But...the issue was factual accuracy, and Comicwiz brought Sulipa's name into the mix, and then tied himself to both Sulipa and Krause, as if they were in full agreement with what he was saying. And I don't see the 150% to 500% (the latter an astonishing number) anywhere we look. Sure, we can find examples in the 150% to 200% range....but 500%? A $10 regular book selling for $30, $40, $50 as a Canadian? A $100 book selling for $300, $400, $500?

 

Sure, a $1 book selling for $5, ok. But if that's the case, it's a little disingenuous, no?

 

hm

 

At this time, the market just doesn't care as much about Canadian versions as much as Doug Sulipa is suggesting.

 

I agree for the most part. Its one thing to market your book as the "MUCH MORE RARE AND SOUGHT AFTER CANADIAN VARIANT" which sells at a "PREMIUM!!!!!", and another thing to add unsupported (or poorly supported) estimates and numbers, especially when the basis is someone else trying to market those same books.

 

Though I would say that I don't think its THAT hard (or wrong) for Mr Sulipa to suggest that Canadian variant books commonly get 150-500% of the US version. The VAST majority of books in the 'Canadian variant era' are essentially worthless. But if he has a store that moves tons of low value books (in Canada), then he might have sold thousands of common books in US and Canadian versions over the past 30 years, and even when the higher dollar books are sold (for a likely smaller premium), and if he takes the AVG premium percentage paid, its not hard to think that tons of those books could sold at $1 US version vs $2-5 for the Canadian version. You take the avg percentage difference, I don't think its so unreasonable to make a statement based on your own experience over the years.

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I agree for the most part. Its one thing to market your book as the "MUCH MORE RARE AND SOUGHT AFTER CANADIAN VARIANT" which sells at a "PREMIUM!!!!!", and another thing to add unsupported (or poorly supported) estimates and numbers, especially when the basis is someone else trying to market those same books.

 

Though I would say that I don't think its THAT hard (or wrong) for Mr Sulipa to suggest that Canadian variant books commonly get 150-500% of the US version. The VAST majority of books in the 'Canadian variant era' are essentially worthless. But if he has a store that moves tons of low value books (in Canada), then he might have sold thousands of common books in US and Canadian versions over the past 30 years, and even when the higher dollar books are sold (for a likely smaller premium), and if he takes the AVG premium percentage paid, its not hard to think that tons of those books could sold at $1 US version vs $2-5 for the Canadian version. You take the avg percentage difference, I don't think its so unreasonable to make a statement based on your own experience over the years.

 

As I noted, it seems a bit disingenuous to tout prices of 150 to 500% of the regular prices for $1-$5 books.

 

"I sold this book, and made 500% of what I paid for it!!"

 

"Wow, that's amazing! How much did you buy it for?"

 

"$1! And I sold it for $5!!"

 

hm

 

 

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I agree for the most part. Its one thing to market your book as the "MUCH MORE RARE AND SOUGHT AFTER CANADIAN VARIANT" which sells at a "PREMIUM!!!!!", and another thing to add unsupported (or poorly supported) estimates and numbers, especially when the basis is someone else trying to market those same books.

 

Though I would say that I don't think its THAT hard (or wrong) for Mr Sulipa to suggest that Canadian variant books commonly get 150-500% of the US version. The VAST majority of books in the 'Canadian variant era' are essentially worthless. But if he has a store that moves tons of low value books (in Canada), then he might have sold thousands of common books in US and Canadian versions over the past 30 years, and even when the higher dollar books are sold (for a likely smaller premium), and if he takes the AVG premium percentage paid, its not hard to think that tons of those books could sold at $1 US version vs $2-5 for the Canadian version. You take the avg percentage difference, I don't think its so unreasonable to make a statement based on your own experience over the years.

 

As I noted, it seems a bit disingenuous to tout prices of 150 to 500% of the regular prices for $1-$5 books.

 

"I sold this book, and made 500% of what I paid for it!!"

 

"Wow, that's amazing! How much did you buy it for?"

 

"$1! And I sold it for $5!!"

 

hm

 

 

but if you've sold thousands of books that way (admittedly mostly drek), as a major Canadian dealer might have over 30 years, then it doesn't sound that unreasonable, if they make up 98% of your data points for Canadian vs US sales. If you've put the US books in the dollar bin and most of their Canadian cousins in the $3 bin, and sold thousands of copies of both, I think you could say in good faith "In my experience, I regularly sell Canadian versions of comics for 300% of what I sell their American counterparts for." That's not the same as saying "I think this book is worth X% more than its American counterpart"

 

**Note that I don't think the public at large will pay such a high premium for Canadian versions, but I could envision a situation where a large Canadian dealer could have that specific experience, and then advertise it.

Edited by Revat

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Comicwiz brought Sulipa's name into the mix, and then tied himself to both Sulipa and Krause, as if they were in full agreement with what he was saying.

 

You must be clueless. That is the only explanation for fabricating something like this. That, or you have no life. Keep believing it's "possibly" or a later printing then. (thumbs u

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Sulipa says "Canadian Newsstands bring 150% to 500% of the common US printings", and your Canadian ASM #251 sold for $75 vs. the US $42 - $75 is 179% of $42. Your 7.0 example is much closer, only 111% of the US sales price.

 

:news:

Math... you're doing it wrong.

 

Original: $42

New: $75

Difference between new and original ($75-$42): $33

Premium=difference divided by original ($33/$42): 79.57%

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You have made several statements in this thread that have been conclusively and decisively disproven, Comicwiz. If you can't have a reasonable, rational discussion without being insulting, please go somewhere else.

 

If, on the other hand, you'd like to participate in a professional, courteous manner, your opinions and experiences would be most welcome (by me, I don't speak for anyone else, though I suspect others would agree.)

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Here's a theory on the changing prices...

Marvel initially launched the GN format at $5.95 (~10x the cost of a regular comic).

Sales/order figures came in (they had 3 months between #1 and #2) and the price point was determined to be too high.

Marvel changed the price point to $4.95 on 1st-print #2.

Before #5 came out Marvel saw the sales figures of 2-4 and, it being X-Men (the golden boy) decided to go back to $5.95.

Subsequent printings of the previous books went to $5.95.

 

I'm not sure how that would influence a #4 $5.95 1st print; I'm just throwing it out as a theory for the price swings.

 

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Who is actually clueless here? Are you still ignoring the FACT that the print run numbers you're quoting in your dishonest eBay listing are from only ONE of MANY distributors?

 

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I don't think the public at large will pay such a high premium for Canadian versions, but I could envision a situation where a large Canadian dealer could have that specific experience, and then advertise it.

 

This situation has been going on for a long time. eBay is not necessarily "the gauge", though it is having an influence on people's decision to purchase CPV's because the ratios of CPV's vs US available at any given time are sometimes quite staggering.

 

It's happening more now because of the trend linking movie announcement or character appearance and a dramatic uptick in demand/interest for that characters key appearance. X-Factor 5/6, Legends 3 quickly come to mind, though there are many others. I was offered $200 for my Legends 3 $1.00 PV, and I turned it down because I won't break-up the set.

 

The distinction between retailing, and the culture of variant collecting are two completely different animals. What I mean here is that guys who have been banging on the WTB price variant drum for over a decade, posting the bait that they're buying, but only wanting to pay guide prices, if that.

 

That's the culture.

 

The backlash is that they do a disservice to the market as a whole because they're looking to buy them for nothing, but then ask the moon for them when they sell.

 

It produces a hot and cold climate, and leaves a false impression of the health of the retailing market on PV's. The other factor is they sell far more infrequently because they are scarcer, and timing is everything in this current market of explosive price increases.

 

I like Doug. He can grade. He has an impressive inventory. In no way did I bring him into this to "back" any of my assertions. When I was reading "possibly" and "4th print" being used to describe the sole $5.95 MGN #4, I posted what it was, and at that moment, visited Doug's site and copied and pasted it. If the boards weren't such a technical mess, I really only wanted to post the fact they were printed in the USA, for the Canadian market, and the key points which make it distinguishable as a price variant. Instead, the boards crashed on me 3 times, and on the 4th time I posted it and left the computer.

 

Further to this point, one of the fallacies being trotted around here is that Doug stock piles this stuff, and that's what motivates him to market them in this fashion. That couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. I would say more times than not, when I have turned to him to seek out a CPV I need to round out a run, he didn't have it. In the last few years, I maybe got a handful of books from the dozens of requests. There were a few years where I was able to pick up a few goodies, but those days are long gone.

 

Those percentages he quotes are definitely realistic. Nothing is a constant, and there's always circumstances that produce a market resistance. Higher grade CPV's do generally hit those high percentages, especially when they are slabbed. BUT, it's not always necessary as I've hit very close to those percentages selling raw. I've done it on key issues like ASM 238 (both slabbed and raw), Secret Wars 8 (raw), GI Joe 21 (raw) and Transformers 1 (LS - raw), just to name a few.

 

I have a long list of people that are still looking for a handful of CPV's, but being 100% transparent with them, I usually tell them I'm hunting for them as well and to wind-up their game if they expect to land one.

 

I'm posting not to toot my horn, or to aggrandize my place or knowledge on this subject, but because the mischaracterization that is going on here has required me to. If anyone wants to PM me, they were welcome.

 

I'm out.

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Here's a theory on the changing prices...

Marvel initially launched the GN format at $5.95 (~10x the cost of a regular comic).

Sales/order figures came in (they had 3 months between #1 and #2) and the price point was determined to be too high.

Marvel changed the price point to $4.95 on 1st-print #2.

Before #5 came out Marvel saw the sales figures of 2-4 and, it being X-Men (the golden boy) decided to go back to $5.95.

Subsequent printings of the previous books went to $5.95.

 

I'm not sure how that would influence a #4 $5.95 1st print; I'm just throwing it out as a theory for the price swings.

 

This is a good theory, but one small correction: MGN #2 had a $5.95 original cover price, the same as #1.

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Sulipa says "Canadian Newsstands bring 150% to 500% of the common US printings", and your Canadian ASM #251 sold for $75 vs. the US $42 - $75 is 179% of $42. Your 7.0 example is much closer, only 111% of the US sales price.

 

:news:

Math... you're doing it wrong.

 

Original: $42

New: $75

Difference between new and original ($75-$42): $33

Premium=difference divided by original ($33/$42): 79.57%

(shrug)

 

You're both right. It's a 79% premium and 179% of the price.

 

Actually, you're wrong, Stronguy. It's 78.57% Math... you're doing it wrong. :baiting:

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Sulipa says "Canadian Newsstands bring 150% to 500% of the common US printings", and your Canadian ASM #251 sold for $75 vs. the US $42 - $75 is 179% of $42. Your 7.0 example is much closer, only 111% of the US sales price.

 

:news:

Math... you're doing it wrong.

 

Original: $42

New: $75

Difference between new and original ($75-$42): $33

Premium=difference divided by original ($33/$42): 79.57%

(shrug)

 

You're both right. It's a 79% premium and 179% of the price.

 

Actually, you're wrong, Stronguy. It's 78.57% Math... you're doing it wrong. :baiting:

 

Typo... still getting used to posting on the boards. :)

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Who is actually clueless here? Are you still ignoring the FACT that the print run numbers you're quoting in your dishonest eBay listing are from only ONE of MANY distributors?

 

If you put it in your skull that "output" means total print run, then of course you are going to find fault. However my use of output is linked to the circulation/order numbers (I stated as much in the listing), which I have also remarked as being an approximation. Those are the only reported figures known, so I have no idea where you're coming from with me being "dishonest." If the rest is really more about your need to take sides, knock yourself out. (thumbs u

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The other factor is they sell far more infrequently because they are scarcer, and timing is everything in this current market of explosive price increases.

 

No, they sell far more infrequently because there's little demand for them. There are currently 18 copies of Hulk #1 for sale in all flavors on eBay, and I guarantee you that Hulk #1 is far scarcer than all but the most obscure Canadian price Copper books.

 

I like Doug. He can grade. He has an impressive inventory. In no way did I bring him into this to "back" any of my assertions.

 

That's demonstrably untrue.

 

Further to this point, one of the fallacies being trotted around here is that Doug stock piles this stuff, and that's what motivates him to market them in this fashion.

 

No, that is what you red and interpreted. That is not what was said, at all, at any time, by anyone.

 

The fact is, anyone...it doesn't matter if they are the most honest, decent, wonderful person in the world...should always be questioned when there's a conflict of interest involved.

 

Doug specializes (among many other things) in Canadian price versions. That doesn't mean he has "a stockpile" of them, but he CERTAINLY sells them, as this proves:

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=dwscw&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_ipg=25&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC2.A0.H0.Xcanadian+variant.TRS1&_nkw=canadian+variant&_sacat=0

 

Therefore, his statement that they "sell for 150% to 500% of the regular versions", especially when there doesn't seem to be much clear evidence of this, MUST be viewed with scrutiny, because it is In his own interests to claim this.

 

This isn't some sort of personal attack against Doug. If I was selling something that I was claiming should be sold at a premium, at the very least, you should question my motives. It's only rational.

 

Don't run to conclusions that cannot be supported by the actual conversation.

 

Those percentages he quotes are definitely realistic.

 

Examples, please.

 

Nothing is a constant, and there's always circumstances that produce a market resistance. Higher grade CPV's do generally hit those high percentages, especially when they are slabbed.

 

Then providing examples should be no problem.

 

*I* had difficulty finding higher price examples with sales data for Canadian versions.

 

BUT, it's not always necessary as I've hit very close to those percentages selling raw. I've done it on key issues like ASM 238 (both slabbed and raw), Secret Wars 8 (raw), GI Joe 21 (raw) and Transformers 1 (LS - raw), just to name a few.

 

ASM #238, in CGC 9.8:

 

( 9.8 ) Canadian Edition - Apr-21-2015 $500 Cert# 0193275001

 

( 9.8 ) Regular Edition:

 

May-08-2015 $515 Cert# 1203678003

Apr-12-2015 $478 Cert# 0916160001

Apr-05-2015 $565 Cert# 0250770009

Mar-22-2015 $487 Cert# 0237158003

Mar-18-2015 $590 Cert# 1202792008

Feb-18-2015 $545 Cert# 1162378001

Jan-19-2015 $630 Cert# 1202792008

Jan-04-2015 $500

 

90 day average: - $514.

 

No premium.

 

(Personally, I think that one is damn cool, and wish I'd had the disposable cash to buy it.)

 

Granted, I just used the 9.8 numbers, but it's enough to show that the "150% to 500%" simply doesn't exist, on any reasonably consistent basis.

 

Secret Wars 8 CGC 9.8:

 

9.8 Canadian Edition:

 

2014 - (1) $285Hi

2013 - (1) $138Hi

 

9.8 Regular edition:

 

2013 average - $126

2014 average - $137

 

One sale of Canadian with negligible premium, and one sale with a premium of 115%, or 215% of the selling price of the regular (and I used the average price; there are examples that greatly reduce this number, from around the same timeframe.)

 

GI Joe #21:

 

( 8.0 ) (1) $35 Mar-2013

( 8.0 ) Canadian Edition (1) $30 Jul-2013

( 7.0 ) $15 Feb-2007

( 7.0 ) Canadian Edition $26 Aug-2008

 

(No other sales data exists for this book. Clearly, no premium.)

 

Transformers #1:

 

9.4 Canadian Edition - Sep-17-2007 $150

 

9.4 Regular edition

 

Oct-23-2007 $52 Cert# 0147775020

Oct-19-2007 $63 Cert# 0607794006

Sep-23-2007 $31

Sep-12-2007 $51

Aug-21-2007 $36 Cert# 0796763901

Aug-10-2007 $42

Aug-09-2007 $70 Cert# 0146165006

Aug-09-2007 $103

 

Avg price = $56

 

So, we see in this once instance, going back nearly 8 years, a single example where the one Canadian version offered for sale sold for a 167% premium, or 267% of the sale price.

 

In all of these examples, there is nothing even approaching the upper limit of Sulipa's claim.

 

"But I said RAW!" Fine, but we don't have access to confirmed sales of raw books, and the data we DO have access to...GPA...should coincide, at least a little bit, with what is being claimed about raws, too. It isn't a vacuum; what one does affects the other, because they are all comic books, after all.

 

but because the mischaracterization that is going on here has required me to..

 

There is no mischaracterization going on here, except by you. Will you revise your listing, which contains inaccurate information, or won't you?

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Who is actually clueless here? Are you still ignoring the FACT that the print run numbers you're quoting in your dishonest eBay listing are from only ONE of MANY distributors?

 

If you put it in your skull that "output" means total print run, then of course you are going to find fault. However my use of output is linked to the circulation/order numbers (I stated as much in the listing), which I have also remarked as being an approximation. Those are the only reported figures known, so I have no idea where you're coming from with me being "dishonest." If the rest is really more about your need to take sides, knock yourself out. (thumbs u

 

No one is "taking sides", and you are trying to backpedal.

 

Fact: your listing says the following - "The Marvel Graphic Novel first print runs averaged roughly a 5-6K output."

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-New-Mutants-1-Marvel-Graphic-Novel-4-Price-Variants-Beauties-/321760537971?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aea6c2d73

 

Fact: The words "print runs" mean "print runs." There is no other qualifier in your listing that says anything about your "information" being only from 1. one distributor, Capital City, 2. referencing the CapCity orders for issues later on down the series, which have nothing to do with the issue at hand (MGN #4.)

 

Those aren't "the only figures known" for MGN #4 any more than the figures known for X-Men #15 (1991) is an approximation for the figures of X-Men #1. We don't know the figures for MGN #4. Citing the numbers for issues #15-22 or whatever later issues you choose to use has absolutely no bearing on the "circulation numbers" for #4.

 

"Circulation numbers", from a SINGLE DISTRIBUTION SOURCE, without identifying that it is from a single distribution source, implies TOTAL circulation/order numbers, and you SAY "print runs" which means....ya know....the PRINT RUNS, not some fraction thereof.

 

Fact: An "approximation" means that it is "close to" an actual number. Saying 5 coffee beans is "approximately" a pound of coffee beans doesn't work.

 

But you are quick to throw around the accusation that other people "can't admit they're wrong"...?

 

Yeah, ok.

 

meh

 

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As I noted, it seems a bit disingenuous to tout prices of 150 to 500% of the regular prices for $1-$5 books.

 

"I sold this book, and made 500% of what I paid for it!!"

 

"Wow, that's amazing! How much did you buy it for?"

 

"$1! And I sold it for $5!!"

 

hm

 

 

I actually think this is the heart of Sulipa's data, and that there are several conclusions we can draw:

 

1. Sulipa is a dealer located in Canada, and therefore is likely to have higher numbers of Canadian price variants in stock. This may or may not give him an incentive to "pump" these variants, but he will nevertheless have a greater volume of sales data than many other dealers.

 

2. Having said that, Sulipa is not primarily a dealer in high grade or CGC-graded books, so the comparisons of sales of such books may not mirror his experience in the marketplace, which tends to focus on books that are a) low to mid grade and b) not always mainstream in appeal (i.e. they're "oddball" books)

 

Basically, if you're looking for a CGC 9.8 of Tales of the Teen Titans #44, Sulipa is probably not the first place you'd go. But if you're looking for an obscure issue of Yogi Bear or Mod Wheels to fill a hole in a run, he's your man... The nature of that market (in my mind anyway) is that he specializes in books that guide for $2 or $3, and will sell them to you for $10 or $15 - i.e. 150% to 500% of guide or more. A quick browse through his website seems to bear this out.

 

This market structure eventually brings self-reinforcing results. If you want to find Canadian price variants, because, hey, that's your thing, Sulipa is probably the one consistent place you can go to find them. And if that's your thing, you're likely to pay the premiums he's reporting... In turn, this will prompt him to buy or identify more of them, and raise his prices, even though other dealers (with only a small selection or no reputation in this field) will struggle to achieve the same premiums.

 

It's also worth noting that Sulipa's model is not local... he's based in the Winnipeg area, which isn't exactly the centre of the comic collecting world (no offence to the 'Peg). His market is primarily mail order and online, and heavily skewed towards European collectors, and to collectors of genres that don't usually crack the "hot books" mindset of those of us who spend time on "mainstream" sites like the CGC boards.

 

Having said all that, I love reading his thoughts on the market, because he's sometimes a kind of bellwether of future trends... I've scooped up a fair bit of weird stuff like Gold Key Scooby Doos or 75c Canadian price variants of late Whitman issues over the years because of the data he reports, and have done alright.

 

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Sulipa says "Canadian Newsstands bring 150% to 500% of the common US printings", and your Canadian ASM #251 sold for $75 vs. the US $42 - $75 is 179% of $42. Your 7.0 example is much closer, only 111% of the US sales price.

 

:news:

Math... you're doing it wrong.

 

Original: $42

New: $75

Difference between new and original ($75-$42): $33

Premium=difference divided by original ($33/$42): 79.57%

 

Sorry, no. Look at what Sulipa says, then plug in the two items. "Canadian Newsstands bring 150% to 500% of the common US printings" = "[$75] bring 150% to 500% of [$42]." While you are correct that $75 is 79% MORE than $42, that's not what the Sulipa claim is - $75 is 179% of $42.

 

Mr. Mathematics 1980, MSHS lol

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