Show Us Your 10 Cent-ers! 15 15

[esquirecomics]

This image may be the basis for starting a brand new thread debating when you believe the Silver Age actually began. Some people do consider the Martian Manhunter, who first appeared in this beauty in November 1955, to be the first SA superhero. This book was published nearly a full year before the Flash appeared in Showcase #4.

 

 

I have no stake in which book is considered the one to have ushered in the new age since I own them both! So go ahead and debate amongst yourselves!

[tth2]

WOW!

 

tth2

 

I don't think those were the big guns and you're still killing me. I feel like the black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I keep coming back for more punishment.

 

Thanks Adam, and those are great books you're posting. Definitely not seen as often. Post some more early Flashes if you've got them! The covers in your posts are so rich, are the inks and gloss really that good in your copies?

[esquirecomics]

Thanks Adam, and those are great books you're posting. Definitely not seen as often. Post some more early Flashes if you've got them! The covers in your posts are so rich, are the inks and gloss really that good in your copies?

 

This isn't the most exciting cover or highest graded copy around, but it is the last 10 cent-er of the series and will hopefully help satisfy tth2's thirst.

 

[adamstrange]

:I don't think those were the big guns and you're still killing me. I feel like the black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I keep coming back for more punishment.

 

No way. If this were a boxing match, you'd BOTH have heads that looked like a sack of bloody meat. Sweet books! Just plain old jaw-droppers, and stuff you just don't see!

 

You help me back up just so tth2 can knock me back down. Some friend you are!

 

tth2

 

 

that's an extraordinarily attractive copy.

 

do your feet touch the ground?

[tth2]

This image may be the basis for starting a brand new thread debating when you believe the Silver Age actually began. Some people do consider the Martian Manhunter, who first appeared in this beauty in November 1955, to be the first SA superhero. This book was published nearly a full year before the Flash appeared in Showcase #4.

 

I have no stake in which book is considered the one to have ushered in the new age since I own them both! So go ahead and debate amongst yourselves!

 

This thread just keeps getting better and better!

 

That is one tough book to find at all, let alone in grade, although I decided to check the census just now and was absolutely stunned to see that there is now a 9.2 unrestored copy.

 

Mark, I take a position that is completely indefensible logically on the "which came first" issue, which is that Showcase 4 is the beginning of the SA, but Tec 225, which came out a year before, is still a SA book. I know, I know

 

In my mind, Showcase 4 is clearly the beginning of the Silver Age, because not only did it introduce a new character but that new character clearly stirred things up, enough to cause DC to start rolling out a bunch of new characters. Tec 225 introduced a new character who became a solid SA character who had his own run for a while, and therefore I consider it to be a SA book. But it's hard to say that old Jon'zz Jon'zz set anything in motion, and if Showcase 4 had never happened, Martian Manhunter would undoubtedly have been relegated to the footnotes of history.

[adamstrange]

This image may be the basis for starting a brand new thread debating when you believe the Silver Age actually began. Some people do consider the Martian Manhunter, who first appeared in this beauty in November 1955, to be the first SA superhero. This book was published nearly a full year before the Flash appeared in Showcase #4.

 

 

I have no stake in which book is considered the one to have ushered in the new age since I own them both! So go ahead and debate amongst yourselves!

 

It was so shocking the way Martian Manhunter became the lead story in Detective and pushed Batman right off of the cover and out of the book. After that, I don't think it surprised anyone when Manhunter's nephew joined him becoming "Manhunter and Chickadee", eventually spinning off and taking over Action Comics from the has-been hero over there. Of course there were all of those imitators bursting. hurtling like comets through the comic universe: Saturn Scene Stealer, Get Jiggy With Me Jupiter, and Uranus the Unmentionable. Oh wait, that was Earth 1!

 

Anyone who goes for anything other than Showcase 4 as the start is

 

The one significant super-hero change prior to Showcase 4 was World's Finest 71. And I don't promote that (although it is a very cool book).

Edited February 16, 2005 by adamstrange

[esquirecomics]

This thread just keeps getting better and better!

 

That is one tough book to find at all, let alone in grade, although I decided to check the census just now and was absolutely stunned to see that there is now a 9.2 unrestored copy.

 

Mark, I take a position that is completely indefensible logically on the "which came first" issue, which is that Showcase 4 is the beginning of the SA, but Tec 225, which came out a year before, is still a SA book. I know, I know

 

In my mind, Showcase 4 is clearly the beginning of the Silver Age, because not only did it introduce a new character but that new character clearly stirred things up, enough to cause DC to start rolling out a bunch of new characters. Tec 225 introduced a new character who became a solid SA character who had his own run for a while, and therefore I consider it to be a SA book. But it's hard to say that old Jon'zz Jon'zz set anything in motion, and if Showcase 4 had never happened, Martian Manhunter would undoubtedly have been relegated to the footnotes of history.

 

When I bought it last Summer the highest graded copy was an 8.0, so I join you in your when I saw that a 9.2 copy surfaced.

 

I am not even going to try and figure out the logic of your comment above about the start of the SA. I think being in a different time zone under Communist control has affected your thinking.

 

Actually, I do understand the sentiment of the thought. Frankly, I have never understood why the first appearance of John Jones was ever "significant". I remember his character from JLA during the late 1970s and early 1980s, and I don't know anyone who particularly liked him. Nor did any of the three attempts to spin him off into his own book apparently meet with any success. Still, something about this darn book always drew me in, which is why I just had to have it!!! Actually got it for a very reasonable price.

[jimm94]

The books in this thread are truly unreal. Wow. You guys are really taking this Marvel zombie to school.

[tth2]

Get Jiggy With Me Jupiter, and Uranus the Unmentionable.

 

[adamstrange]

Win Mortimer was the main cover artist for all the Bat/Supey titles. Underrated and mostly ignored. I'm not surprised you like it -- I do too (nice copy!). I got a few omics out from that time period but didn't get to them. Soon.

 

Sorry my post didn't make sense. I'm a little punchy this late.

 

MM had no impact on the comic market at the time in any significant way. It made no impact on kids/collectors in that time. He's just another second string.

 

So why did he get promoted as the prime mover? MM never guided for much before he got hyped. He guided for a lot after he got hyped.

Edited February 16, 2005 by adamstrange

[adamstrange]

The books in this thread are truly unreal. Wow. You guys are really taking this Marvel zombie to school.

 

you mean you're one of these:

 

Edited February 16, 2005 by adamstrange

[jimm94]

Exactly!

[ComicSupply]

scan 4 -- the scanner can't really capture the colors on this one.

 

 

Is it just me, or does the Miracleman 15 cover seem to be inspired by this?

[Red Hook]

kirby sojourn at DC

 

 

Waaaawaaa.......Kirby doing Easter Island gargoyles for DC........... (sound of RedHooks brainpan melting.)

 

 

[tth2]

it also shows the tip of the iceberg of how many nice SA DCs are out there unslabbed, perhaps.... I agree with many that when all is said and done, DCs will always be harder to find than early Marvels.... but clearly there are many DCs sitting quietly in mylars still....

 

I was thinking more about this, and I'm actually not so sure how true this is. I'm under no illusions that there are not more HG copies out there (in fact, I really hope there are more HG copies out there, otherwise I'll never be able to complete any runs), and adamstrange has indicated that he knows of collections with some gems that have continued to sit quietly out there.

 

But think about this: a primary source of HG SAs has been pedigree collections, but of the major SA pedigrees, 1962-63 seems to be the earliest when most really start going strong (PC, Curator, Northland, Mass).

 

So that leaves Western Penn, White Mountain and Bethlehem of the known pedigrees which cover the 1950s and early 1960s extensively.

 

Bethlehem is, well, Bethlehem, which means there can be pretty wide variation in quality, and even the nice books can have a bit of tanning. But there are undoubtedly some nice runs of DCs from that pedigree. I know almost nothing about these early Bethlehem DCs, to be honest, but would be willing to bet that Bethlehem will not be a massive source of 9.4 and 9.6 early DCs.

 

I've seen 9.4 Western Penn DCs from as early as 1961, but no earlier thus far. Tom Hanlin has confirmed there is a complete Western Penn Showcase run, but doesn't seem to think that the Showcase 4 and 22-24, for example, are of 9.4 quality. Does this hold true for Western Penn runs of other DC titles from 1956-61? So the jury's out, but I'm not setting my hopes very high.

 

The wild card is White Mountain. Like Bethlehem, it can be of uneven quality, but we also know that many issues from the 50s and early 60s can be absolutely stunning. I know very little about early SA DCs from WM, the earliest 9.4 WMs I have are from 1962. Perhaps adamstrange knows whether there are WM runs of early Showcase, B&B, JLA, GL, Adventure, Flash, etc., and how good they are? If I had to pick where I think the most HG copies from this era would come from, it would be WM.

 

Of course there is always the possibility of yet-undiscovered pedigrees and non-pedigree books, and I hope they will emerge. In fact, most HG copies that I've seen of early SA DC have not been pedigreed (or at least identified as being from a pedigree). Not one of my GLs is a pedigree, and none of the ultra-HG early JLAs that I've seen yet is a pedigree. But if this is the case, then the supply of new HG will continue to be more in the form of a slow drip than a massive flood ala the Pacific Coast collection.

[burntboy]

here are a few lesser seen DC 10 Centers;

 

[linmoth]

Hi Tim: I don't know where you are getting your info about the Western Pa collection and attributing it to me, but I think that you need to check your facts.

 

This isn't the first time that I've seen something that you have written and .

 

There were multiple copies of Showcase 4 which copy are you referring to.

 

The Showcase run was offered for sale a few years ago minus some of the key books and the condition had deteriorated from handling and storage. That is what I believe I told you, how you manufactured that into your statement is beyond me!

 

Oh, I forgot you're an attorney, that explains it!

 

Best, Tom

Edited February 16, 2005 by linmoth

[greggy]

The wild card is White Mountain. Like Bethlehem, it can be of uneven quality, but we also know that many issues from the 50s and early 60s can be absolutely stunning. I know very little about early SA DCs from WM, the earliest 9.4 WMs I have are from 1962. Perhaps adamstrange knows whether there are WM runs of early Showcase, B&B, JLA, GL, Adventure, Flash, etc., and how good they are? If I had to pick where I think the most HG copies from this era would come from, it would be WM.

Unfortunately, from what I've read in the past, the WM original owner was not a DC collector save for the space related titles such as Mystery and Space and Strange Adventures. Apparently Gary Carter bought the runs intact initially from Jerry Weist before the WM collection was advertised publicly. So...looks like you will have to find another source.

[Rip]

If you want to know more about the Bethlehem books I would talk to Motor City, since he had the run of HG Showcase.

[adamstrange]

it also shows the tip of the iceberg of how many nice SA DCs are out there unslabbed, perhaps.... I agree with many that when all is said and done, DCs will always be harder to find than early Marvels.... but clearly there are many DCs sitting quietly in mylars still....

 

I was thinking more about this, and I'm actually not so sure how true this is. I'm under no illusions that there are not more HG copies out there (in fact, I really hope there are more HG copies out there, otherwise I'll never be able to complete any runs), and adamstrange has indicated that he knows of collections with some gems that have continued to sit quietly out there.

 

But think about this: a primary source of HG SAs has been pedigree collections, but of the major SA pedigrees, 1962-63 seems to be the earliest when most really start going strong (PC, Curator, Northland, Mass).

 

So that leaves Western Penn, White Mountain and Bethlehem of the known pedigrees which cover the 1950s and early 1960s extensively.

 

Bethlehem is, well, Bethlehem, which means there can be pretty wide variation in quality, and even the nice books can have a bit of tanning. But there are undoubtedly some nice runs of DCs from that pedigree. I know almost nothing about these early Bethlehem DCs, to be honest, but would be willing to bet that Bethlehem will not be a massive source of 9.4 and 9.6 early DCs.

 

I've seen 9.4 Western Penn DCs from as early as 1961, but no earlier thus far. Tom Hanlin has confirmed there is a complete Western Penn Showcase run, but doesn't seem to think that the Showcase 4 and 22-24, for example, are of 9.4 quality. Does this hold true for Western Penn runs of other DC titles from 1956-61? So the jury's out, but I'm not setting my hopes very high.

 

The wild card is White Mountain. Like Bethlehem, it can be of uneven quality, but we also know that many issues from the 50s and early 60s can be absolutely stunning. I know very little about early SA DCs from WM, the earliest 9.4 WMs I have are from 1962. Perhaps adamstrange knows whether there are WM runs of early Showcase, B&B, JLA, GL, Adventure, Flash, etc., and how good they are? If I had to pick where I think the most HG copies from this era would come from, it would be WM.

 

Of course there is always the possibility of yet-undiscovered pedigrees and non-pedigree books, and I hope they will emerge. In fact, most HG copies that I've seen of early SA DC have not been pedigreed (or at least identified as being from a pedigree). Not one of my GLs is a pedigree, and none of the ultra-HG early JLAs that I've seen yet is a pedigree. But if this is the case, then the supply of new HG will continue to be more in the form of a slow drip than a massive flood ala the Pacific Coast collection.

 

Jerry Wiest is the ultimate source on the WM. Many of the books from that collection were sold to Carter, but condition varied. They were heavy on the Sci Fi titles but I have seen a handful super-hero books. Can't recall what. There have been several lots of books released from the collection -- it was not all done on the first trip. As I understand it, the WM books sold through Sotheby's were straight from the original owner to be included in the sale. Carter didn't get first shot, Bob Overstreet did, but he didn't purchase all that many books in comparison to Carter. The last lot from the collection to surface (through Wiest) was about 4 years ago -- my memory's fuzzy on the date. It's always possible there are more books, but it seems likely that the WMs are concentrated in DC SciFi until contrary evidence surfaces.

 

The Bethlehem Showcases were sold by Phil Weiss, the original purchaser, around 1998. Goldman's run is the Newsboy.

 

I do not know any exclusively high-grade completist DC collector of the 1950 - 1963 period. There are/have been many high-grade Marvel collectors going for all of the titles and there are high-grade collectors who specialize on certain DC titles, so there will be books coming out eventually. Probably not enough to go around (are there ever?).

 

I'm hard-pressed to think of any pedigree from the 50s with "massive runs of 9.4 and 9.6". If I had a complete runs of major titles in 9.0 pedigrees I'd be doing awfully darn good.

 

"Perhaps adamstrange knows whether there are WM runs of early Showcase, B&B, JLA, GL, Adventure, Flash, etc., and how good they are?" Books from 1961 up will show up, but will still be tough to find in a NM pedigree-quality copies. If you are looking for books earlier than that, you are typically need to pick the best from different sources.