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US vs UK editions

242 posts in this topic

Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

Well, the "average" wasn't close to 50 to 55% from my random test or from my experience so I think your certainty of it is misguided. I'll try another random sample tomorrow to see if I get a different result.

 

...and I think you have more than a few reasons to be biased in your analysis/conclusions.

 

Furthermore, I didn't say they "never" sell for more than 50-55%. They sometimes do. And they also sometimes sell for a lot less.

 

Thus an average of 50-55%. And frankly, anyone paying more than that does so at their own peril, since the market is so small, niche, and therefore volatile with them.

 

-J.

Well, you can believe what you like about my "bias" but I've got a reputation for honesty among those who know me so I'll let people draw their own conclusions.

 

I wasn't trying to say that you were saying that they never sell for more than 50 to 55%. I was trying to say that you are wrong that 50 to 55% is the average. Hopefully that is clear enough. If you choose to believe that the average is that low then that's up to you but I am disagreeing with you and my looking at GPA backs up my opinion of the average to me. I don't expact you to change your mind though so believe what you wish.

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Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

Well, the "average" wasn't close to 50 to 55% from my random test or from my experience so I think your certainty of it is misguided. I'll try another random sample tomorrow to see if I get a different result.

 

...and I think you have more than a few reasons to be biased in your analysis/conclusions.

 

Furthermore, I didn't say they "never" sell for more than 50-55%. They sometimes do. And they also sometimes sell for a lot less.

 

Thus an average of 50-55%. And frankly, anyone paying more than that does so at their own peril, since the market is so small, niche, and therefore volatile with them.

 

-J.

Well, you can believe what you like about my "bias" but I've got a reputation for honesty among those who know me so I'll let people draw their own conclusions.

 

I wasn't trying to say that you were saying that they never sell for more than 50 to 55%. I was trying to say that you are wrong that 50 to 55% is the average. Hopefully that is clear enough. If you choose to believe that the average is that low then that's up to you but I am disagreeing with you and my looking at GPA backs up my opinion of the average to me. I don't expact you to change your mind though so believe what you wish.

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

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Calling something a price variant is the wrong thing to do in my opinion and possibly deliberately disingenuous.

 

A price variant has (at the moment in the greater comic collecting sphere) a very specific meaning as mentioned earlier in the thread, I hear price variant I automatically think something like the Stars Wars 30/35 cent one. That's the accepted definition.

 

There's just no getting away from the fact that pence copies were produced specifically for a 'foreign' country and therefore need to be described as such.

 

Foreign edition, British edition, Pence copy - all those are good, I myself prefer Pence copy as pretty much everyone understands what that means and what they will be getting. Foreign edition is my least preferred as I automatically think its in a difference language to English, but that's from a British perspective..

 

But price variant? No.

 

For it to be a price variant it would have to be denominated in the same currency and actively produced for the same market. Therefore a 'variant' on the 'price', not a variant on the currency/country.

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Calling something a price variant is the wrong thing to do in my opinion and possibly deliberately disingenuous.

 

A price variant has (at the moment in the greater comic collecting sphere) a very specific meaning as mentioned earlier in the thread, I hear price variant I automatically think something like the Stars Wars 30/35 cent one. That's the accepted definition.

 

There's just no getting away from the fact that pence copies were produced specifically for a 'foreign' country and therefore need to be described as such.

 

Foreign edition, British edition, Pence copy - all those are good, I myself prefer Pence copy as pretty much everyone understands what that means and what they will be getting. Foreign edition is my least preferred as I automatically think its in a difference language to English, but that's from a British perspective..

 

But price variant? No.

 

For it to be a price variant it would have to be denominated in the same currency and actively produced for the same market. Therefore a 'variant' on the 'price', not a variant on the currency/country.

Yeah, it boils down to what people's definition of a price variant is and if people find it misleading then the term shouldn't be used. Like I mentioned earlier, UK edition seems to be the most accurate & descriptive and pence copy is the popularly accepted term so I don't think any other description is necessary.

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I would tend to look at it like a Spanish comic printed on the same press at the same time, obviously in Spanish, with the price in pesos. The Candian one is printed in 'Canadian', with the price in Canadian dollars. The British one is printed in 'British', in British currency.]

 

I completely understand what you have written this statement but changing the term 'English' to 'British' when describing the language spoken in England i.e. Britain just doesn't sit right with me (shrug)

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I love when these pence vs. cents arguments come around :cloud9:

 

 

Collectors can keep ignoring the pence copies.

 

Collectors can keep underestimating the value of pence copies vs. their cents brethren.

 

Knock yourselves out.

 

 

I will keep buying the pence copies at their relatively low price... so THANK YOU (thumbs u

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm not a huge lover of Pence copies in the sense that I MUCH prefer Cents copies when buying books for my collection.

 

Having said that I have no issues owning Pence copies and have a number of them. It's just not my collecting preference.

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I love when these pence vs. cents arguments come around :cloud9:

 

 

Collectors can keep ignoring the pence copies.

 

Collectors can keep underestimating the value of pence copies vs. their cents brethren.

 

Knock yourselves out.

 

 

I will keep buying the pence copies at their relatively low price... so THANK YOU (thumbs u

 

 

 

 

 

sssh!!! ;)

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Brain teaser...

way out of Bronze & Silver territory but a bit of a logic test...

 

Miracleman no.1 from Eclipse Comics was published in 1985

 

The entire print-run was printed in Finland (which is not in America)

 

There are two versions, one intended for the American market, one intended for the UK market

 

The front cover to both these versions are 100% identical and they both carry USA cents, UK pence and Canadian dollars prices

 

The only differences in the two versions are 1) the rear cover (completely different) and 2) the indicia in the UK version says "not for sale in North America"

 

Both versions were on sale in the UK when launched

 

How do we classify these books?

 

 

 

 

Eventually Finland will be in America.

 

Of course, but until then, what you all don't realise is that I have a stack of Finnish Miracleman 1 Markka price variants

 

It's a little known fact that these were printed by mistake by the Finnish printers - most were pulped on discovery but a few slipped into the Scandanavian comics market

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I'm not sure any one is disputing the use of the word 'variant'?

 

by definition, I think that anything that isn't the 1st print original copy is a 'variant' on the original.

 

Any copy produced at the same time that isn't a standard (highest volume produced) version is technically a variant. This includes error copies, test market price variants, pence copies, cover art variants, Direct Market copies when the DM started, newsstand copies after the DM took over, etc. They are all first print copies of the same book from the same publisher, but they have relatively significant differences. "Relatively significant" meaning that normal production variances like weak single-colour inks and miswraps don't make variants.

 

You are just arguing semantics now.

 

Yes, Pence copies are "variants". They are foreign variants.

 

Which is basically what CGC notes on their labels. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I also have some CGC graded British Comics (Alan Class & L Miller) interstingly these are also noted as "UK Editions" (in exactly the same way) even though there's no American counter-part hm

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My final point...

 

35c and 30c variants are much in demand, and sell for significantly more than their 30c and 25c counter-parts - we all know that yes?

 

My understanding is they were only released in certain GEOGRAPHICAL States in the USA.

 

discuss.... :shy:

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Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

J,

 

You conveniently sidestepped the question. Where did you get the 50-55% number?

 

Tim

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My final point...

 

35c and 30c variants are much in demand, and sell for significantly more than their 30c and 25c counter-parts - we all know that yes?

 

My understanding is they were only released in certain GEOGRAPHICAL States in the USA.

 

discuss.... :shy:

 

 

:popcorn:

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Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

J,

 

You conveniently sidestepped the question. Where did you get the 50-55% number?

 

Tim

 

Nothing was side stepped at all. As indicated by the bolded part of the previous post, I derived the average from the same place the UK pence dealer derived his rather lofty average from - GPA. (thumbs u

 

-J.

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Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

J,

 

You conveniently sidestepped the question. Where did you get the 50-55% number?

 

Tim

 

Nothing was side stepped at all. As indicated by the bolded part of the previous post, I derived the average from the same place the UK pence dealer derived his rather lofty average from - GPA. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

He actually gave three averages from 10 results - how many results did you look at?

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Could you share your data set? Because when I've looked at this in the past my results were a lot closer to those reported by Gary.

 

EDIT: And I should mention I have no dog in this fight. I neither buy nor sell pence copies.

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Could you share your data set? Because when I've looked at this in the past my results were a lot closer to those reported by Gary.

 

EDIT: And I should mention I have no dog in this fight. I neither buy nor sell pence copies.

 

I have no dog in the fight either and for the same reasons. As someone who specifically sells these, Gary does however. His obvious bias on the subject would not make him "unethical". It would make him human. He is the one who made the initial claim of what he believes the "averages" to be. I then double checked his claims and found them to be on the optimistic side. Why did I do that ? Because I don't automatically take dealers at their word on values, whether I have bought from them in the past or not. I perform my own due diligence, as anyone should.

 

If Gary would like to share his data set I will be more than happy to respond with data that counters his. However I believe that even Gary would find that to be a futile endeavour since he has also acknowledged that data supporting averages far less than his original claims also exists. It just depends on "which" data you're looking at at the moment. ;)

 

-J.

 

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Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

J,

 

You conveniently sidestepped the question. Where did you get the 50-55% number?

 

Tim

 

Nothing was side stepped at all. As indicated by the bolded part of the previous post, I derived the average from the same place the UK pence dealer derived his rather lofty average from - GPA. (thumbs u

 

-J.

You make it sound like I sell pence copies exclusively, I still sell way more cents copies than pence. Like I said before, I'm not biased about the values. I sell pence copies at two thirds of the value that I sell cents copies but I also pay two thirds of what I would pay for cents copies when I'm buying in pence copies so it makes little difference to me. If I honestly believed that genuine market value was half of cents then that percentage would be what I'd pay when buying them in,

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Ah okay, then they definitely have increased a bit. Cheers.

 

In most straight-up auctions, grade for grade, they usually fetch 50-55% of the original American versions, which is consistent with the going market averages as reflected on GPA. (thumbs u

 

Have you actually gone through GPA to come up with this statement? I just did a completely random and honest test on GPA of the first ten UK Marvel key pence copies that I came across. Out of those ten, three of them were in 50 to 60% of cents copies zone at the time of sale, four were in 60 to 80%, two were above 80% and one was 100% of the going rate at that time of cents copies. While there is obviously an element of luck involved in how the results turn out, it certainly makes your opinion of regular sales at 50 to 55% to be very much on the low side and it backs up my experience as a regular seller of pence copies.

 

I'm also aware that you will probably believe that I am wanting to "talk up" the values of pence copies as a seller of them but that is not the case and to be honest, I really don't need to.

 

Yes. And some of the data I just randomly cherry picked showed Pence copies going for as little as 40% of the original American versions.

 

Which is why I said the *average* is about 50-55%. Because it is. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

J,

 

You conveniently sidestepped the question. Where did you get the 50-55% number?

 

Tim

 

Nothing was side stepped at all. As indicated by the bolded part of the previous post, I derived the average from the same place the UK pence dealer derived his rather lofty average from - GPA. (thumbs u

 

-J.

You make it sound like I sell pence copies exclusively, I still sell way more cents copies than pence. Like I said before, I'm not biased about the values. I sell pence copies at two thirds of the value that I sell cents copies but I also pay two thirds of what I would pay for cents copies when I'm buying in pence copies so it makes little difference to me. If I honestly believed that genuine market value was half of cents then that percentage would be what I'd pay when buying them in,

 

Hi Gary, nice to meet you, I'm Jay. :hi:

 

Please don't take my responses to your posts as a challenge to your ethics as a dealer, see post above.

 

I'm assuming you're in the UK? You may very well get those prices in the UK for Pence books. I, however am familiar with dealers here in the States who have realized much less than that on those books here. That would possibly explain the gaps that we see on GPA.

 

It may just boil down to location, location, location. But based on what I see and have seen on GPA and in auctions, I personally would never pay over that 50-55% threshold because the sales are so sporadic and volatile since the market for them is so much smaller.

 

-J.

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