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1st appearance of the real Domino
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Started by gaz973,

137 posts in this topic

GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, ygogolak said:

I think the poster meant since CGC made a decision on labelling #11, which I believe was more recent.

There are 3 listings for #8. One is clearly labelled as an Australian version. The other two are not indicated as being any type if variant, but are listed with two different dates (2/92 & 3/92). The former only contains 2 9.8 copies. I think that's what the comment was about. Certainly there are more copies of #11 graded, but there are a batch of #8s graded as well. I don't disagree with the conclusion (that CGC's label is the driving force in the difference), but the difference is not quite as stark.

I don't know why the two versions are there, but have noticed that some books have multiple census entries for the same book. So they might be the same book. One case I've noticed is the difference of "and" or an ampersand being used in the name of the book. Same book, but two entries because CGC was inconsistent with how they labeled a book.

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brianchew

brianchew

Posted
Posted
On 8/11/2017 at 5:03 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

That's not accurate.

https://www.cgccomics.com/census/grades_standard.asp?title=X-Force&publisher=Marvel+Comics&issue=8&year=1992&issuedate=3%2F92

Thanks for the clarification. I must have clicked on the wrong issue.  I thought  1 submission was crazy but wouldnt have been surprised. Well at least we know 58 submissions were sent in. Still valid point but much more realistic. Thx Geeks!

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brianchew

brianchew

Posted
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On 8/10/2017 at 3:48 PM, Juno Beach said:

Not following what you mean about Valkyrie. Even though in Avengers #83 it turns out to be the Enchantress it's still known to be the first appearance of her. Is there another appearance that is worth more?

Avengers #83 (1970); (Samantha as Valkyrie)

Incredible Hulk #142 (1971); (Enchantress disguised as Valkyrie)

Defenders #4 (1973) (Brunnhilde as Valkyrie)

All relatively worth the same though Avengers 83 is a more popular issue because its also the 1st appearance of the Liberators but I dont even know if they ever appeared again so it could be their 1st and last LOL.  But pricewise, high grade is scarce and have gone for similar prices though sporadic.



 

Valkyrie.jpg

Valkyrie2.jpg

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
On 8/10/2017 at 5:48 PM, Juno Beach said:

Not following what you mean about Valkyrie. Even though in Avengers #83 it turns out to be the Enchantress it's still known to be the first appearance of her. Is there another appearance that is worth more?

??? How can it be the first appearance of the Valkyrie if it was revealed to actually be the Enchantress in the story? They are different characters.

Also, what does value have to do with defining first appearances?

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brianchew

brianchew

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Juno Beach said:

You have the info transposed for the Avengers and Hulk. But your original point was that the market frowns on impostors but that doesn't seem to be the case your example here.

well you have to have read the actual book to know what an imposter is.  Im my first post that tackles this I said 1st appearances of the costume or character are not valued as much as when the real character has his true identity.  In the Cap example, it was a character named the Acrobat that had on Cap's uniform and was disguised as Cap.  Imposter. Stan was test marketing to see if he should bring Cap back into the silver age.  Book is not as valuable as the Avgrs 4 which is his true 1st app silver age.  I brought up Valkyrie but it only applies to the Avgrs 83. In Avgrs 83, which should be her 1st app is really the Enchantress disguised as her.  Imposter.  The two other appearances are actually 1st app of her from two different women who Valkyrie chose to come into.  

 

3 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

??? How can it be the first appearance of the Valkyrie if it was revealed to actually be the Enchantress in the story? They are different characters.

Also, what does value have to do with defining first appearances?

I dont know, maybe hulk 180 and 181? maybe the fact that those who look for keys drive up the value of certain books? 

 

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brianchew

brianchew

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Juno Beach said:

You have the info transposed for the Avengers and Hulk. But your original point was that the market frowns on impostors but that doesn't seem to be the case your example here.

oh I forgot to address the market value, Avgrs is hyped cuz of the 1st app of the Liberators.  And then Val values started going up due to the movie hype and the Defenders 1st app and Hulk 1st app rose up to equal the avgrs 83. essentially they caught up and lets see if they surpass.  So you are right its not currently apparent since they are almost all equal but 2nd and 3rd place appearances just rose up to catch up 

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ygogolak

ygogolak

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, brianchew said:

well you have to have read the actual book to know what an imposter is.  Im my first post that tackles this I said 1st appearances of the costume or character are not valued as much as when the real character has his true identity.  In the Cap example, it was a character named the Acrobat that had on Cap's uniform and was disguised as Cap.  Imposter. Stan was test marketing to see if he should bring Cap back into the silver age.  Book is not as valuable as the Avgrs 4 which is his true 1st app silver age.  I brought up Valkyrie but it only applies to the Avgrs 83. In Avgrs 83, which should be her 1st app is really the Enchantress disguised as her.  Imposter.  The two other appearances are actually 1st app of her from two different women who Valkyrie chose to come into.  

 

I dont know, maybe hulk 180 and 181? maybe the fact that those who look for keys drive up the value of certain books? 

 

You're trying to solve one dilemma which in fact has many, many variables across the board. Market perception, character value, age, perceived rarity, demand, etc...

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, brianchew said:
3 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Also, what does value have to do with defining first appearances?

I dont know, maybe hulk 180 and 181? maybe the fact that those who look for keys drive up the value of certain books? 

Keyword: defining. The question was asking about value's influence on first appearances, not first appearances' influence on value. Very different things.

 

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Juno Beach

Juno Beach

Posted
Posted
On 8/13/2017 at 6:12 PM, Lazyboy said:

??? How can it be the first appearance of the Valkyrie if it was revealed to actually be the Enchantress in the story? They are different characters.

Also, what does value have to do with defining first appearances?

Should be noted as "first appearance of character called Valkyrie wearing outfit associated with future Valkyries". 

 

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AGGIEZ

AGGIEZ

Posted
Posted (edited)

"RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE!"

It's been a while, but digging through my short boxes and ran across X-force #1 and this thread popped in my head again. 

I was going to ask if Domino's appearances in X-Force #1-7, 9-10 were all Copycat posing as Domino...but I went down a rabbit hole and did the research myself. This is what I see in NM#98 and X-Force #1-20 regarding Copycat and Domino:

  • New Mutants #98 = Copycat Domino
  • X-Force #1-7 = Copycat Domino
  • X-Force #8 = real Domino, flashback story 10 years ago (real Domino appears on cover and 18-panel appearances)
  • X-Force #9 = Copycat Domino
  • X-Force #10 = Copycat Domino
  • X-Force #11 = Copycat Domino, real Domino revealed in cameo on last page (1-panel, full page), real Domino in bondage for "over a year" by Mr. Tolliver
  • X-Force #12 = Copycat Domino (cover is Copycat)
  • X-Force #13 = Copycat Domino, real Domino in bondage on last page (1-panel, full page)
  • X-Force #14 = real Domino and Copycat Domino meet (real Domino in 3-panels)
  • X-Force #15 = real Domino and Copycat Domino...Copycat Domino "dies" (real Domino freed, appears in 11-panels)
  • X-Force #16-18 = no Domino, X-men appearances
  • X-Force #19 = no Domino, 1-panel appearance of Copycat/Vanessa Carlysle in true form
  • X-Force #20 = Copycat/Vanessa Carlysle silhouette only, real Domino re-appears

There you have it...

_______________________________________________________

PICTURES:

X-Force #11 = real Domino revealed in cameo on last page (1-panel, full page). "Full appearance"? 

D3F61CBE-17C3-42A3-A345-2907979C2C2D.jpeg

X-Force #13 = real Domino in bondage on last page (1-panel, full page)

EB7AF667-BE03-4965-B069-0C9645A93023.jpeg

 

X-Force #15 = real Domino and Copycat Domino...Copycat Domino "dies" (real Domino freed, appears in 11-panels)

C611FF58-BC01-4609-A171-CDD463C20F2F.jpeg

Edited by AGGIEZ
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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
On 3/8/2022 at 4:55 PM, AGGIEZ said:

"RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE!"

It's been a while, but digging through my short boxes and ran across X-force #1 and this thread popped in my head again. 

I was going to ask if Domino's appearances in X-Force #1-7, 9-10 were all Copycat posing as Domino...but I went down a rabbit hole and did the research myself. This is what I see in NM#98 and X-Force #1-20 regarding Copycat and Domino:

  • New Mutants #98 = Copycat Domino
  • X-Force #1-7 = Copycat Domino
  • X-Force #8 = real Domino, flashback story 10 years ago (real Domino appears on cover and 18-panel appearances)
  • X-Force #9 = Copycat Domino
  • X-Force #10 = Copycat Domino
  • X-Force #11 = Copycat Domino, real Domino revealed in cameo on last page (1-panel, full page), real Domino in bondage for "over a year" by Mr. Tolliver
  • X-Force #12 = Copycat Domino (cover is Copycat)
  • X-Force #13 = Copycat Domino, real Domino in bondage on last page (1-panel, full page)
  • X-Force #14 = real Domino and Copycat Domino meet (real Domino in 3-panels)
  • X-Force #15 = real Domino and Copycat Domino...Copycat Domino "dies" (real Domino freed, appears in 11-panels)
  • X-Force #16-18 = no Domino, X-men appearances
  • X-Force #19 = no Domino, 1-panel appearance of Copycat/Vanessa Carlysle in true form
  • X-Force #20 = Copycat/Vanessa Carlysle silhouette only, real Domino re-appear

 

(thumbsu

Copycat "Domino" is, of course, also in New Mutants 99 & 100. Plus, there's the supplemental material (Cable Guide) in X-Force 6, which is the first time, after 9 (apparent) appearances, that we find out how (the real) Domino is so lucky.

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eddly

eddly

Posted
Posted

1st appearance to who? The reader of the comic or the other characters in the comic? Which is more significant? Is it really an appearance if it’s in a dream or a flashback?

If a comic has a new character but doesn’t appear to any of the other characters, is it really a 1st appearance?

I have no point other than to say that the definition of 1st appearance is consistently inconsistent. It will be interesting to see what happens for the domino comic value if she gets popular. Which comic will everyone go after? I would want NM98 as the first appearance of a character presenting herself as Domino… 

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AGGIEZ

AGGIEZ

Posted
Posted
On 3/9/2022 at 11:23 PM, eddly said:

Is it really an appearance if it’s in a dream or a flashback?

Yes...why wouldn't it be?

With that thinking, I guess we're still waiting for the 1st appearance of Sleepwalker?

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Juno Beach

Juno Beach

Posted
Posted
On 3/9/2022 at 9:23 PM, eddly said:

1st appearance to who? The reader of the comic or the other characters in the comic? Which is more significant? Is it really an appearance if it’s in a dream or a flashback?

If a comic has a new character but doesn’t appear to any of the other characters, is it really a 1st appearance?

I have no point other than to say that the definition of 1st appearance is consistently inconsistent. It will be interesting to see what happens for the domino comic value if she gets popular. Which comic will everyone go after? I would want NM98 as the first appearance of a character presenting herself as Domino… 

Yeah, people will seek out NM98 for her first app. Nobody's else's first app in that issue of note. Easy peasy. 

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