HA AUGUST 27-29 SIGNATURE AUCTION

[lou_fine]

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

Are you referring to books such as 'Tec 31 which Overstreet has listed in the new guide for only $6.5K a point in the lower grades as compared to the $15K to $20K a point which it actually trades at.

[ciorac]

I think the AA 16 will sell below $100k. I'm guessing $75k

 

Well, if this turns out to be the case this would represent a pretty substantial downdraft on this book, as this would mean even be a large discount to guide.

 

Especially since other key GA books are able to fetch substantial premiums to guide in today's hot market, even non-hot less popular books like 'Tec 38 which is apparently going for well over guide now for both low grade and even restored copies according to the other thread.

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

I disagree that it has no bearing or relevance. Every time I sell a book at a show the dealer pulls out his guide to check how my price is compared to guide. Even "multiples of guide" references the guide. Still very relevant in my experience

[G.A.tor]

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

Are you referring to books such as 'Tec 31 which Overstreet has listed in the new guide for only $6.5K a point in the lower grades as compared to the $15K to $20K a point which it actually trades at.

oh...the examples are many

[G.A.tor]

I think the AA 16 will sell below $100k. I'm guessing $75k

 

Well, if this turns out to be the case this would represent a pretty substantial downdraft on this book, as this would mean even be a large discount to guide.

 

Especially since other key GA books are able to fetch substantial premiums to guide in today's hot market, even non-hot less popular books like 'Tec 38 which is apparently going for well over guide now for both low grade and even restored copies according to the other thread.

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

I disagree that it has no bearing or relevance. Every time I sell a book at a show the dealer pulls out his guide to check how my price is compared to guide. Even "multiples of guide" references the guide. Still very relevant in my experience

folks may still quote "% over or under guide" as an after thought, but the guide has virtually NO real world relevance in the prices realized on the big keys (I'm not talking about run of the mill books, obviously, where the guide is in play).... in other words, what I am saying is that no one is thinking, "well, tec 31 guides for 6.5 in gd, so I have to bid accordingly"...they are knowing that from actual sales "tec 31 goes for 20K a point" (or whatever the number is).... you get my thought process...no one that is serious about purchasing a big keys is running to ospg to see about what they should pay....they are using the myriad of real time sales tools at their disposal to make that decision

[Primetime]

I think the AA 16 will sell below $100k. I'm guessing $75k

 

Well, if this turns out to be the case this would represent a pretty substantial downdraft on this book, as this would mean even be a large discount to guide.

 

Especially since other key GA books are able to fetch substantial premiums to guide in today's hot market, even non-hot less popular books like 'Tec 38 which is apparently going for well over guide now for both low grade and even restored copies according to the other thread.

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

I disagree that it has no bearing or relevance. Every time I sell a book at a show the dealer pulls out his guide to check how my price is compared to guide. Even "multiples of guide" references the guide. Still very relevant in my experience

folks may still quote "% over or under guide" as an after thought, but the guide has virtually NO real world relevance in the prices realized on the big keys (I'm not talking about run of the mill books, obviously, where the guide is in play).... in other words, what I am saying is that no one is thinking, "well, tec 31 guides for 6.5 in gd, so I have to bid accordingly"...they are knowing that from actual sales "tec 31 goes for 20K a point" (or whatever the number is).... you get my thought process...no one that is serious about purchasing a big keys is running to ospg to see about what they should pay....they are using the myriad of real time sales tools at their disposal to make that decision

OSPG advisors

[ciorac]

I think the AA 16 will sell below $100k. I'm guessing $75k

 

Well, if this turns out to be the case this would represent a pretty substantial downdraft on this book, as this would mean even be a large discount to guide.

 

Especially since other key GA books are able to fetch substantial premiums to guide in today's hot market, even non-hot less popular books like 'Tec 38 which is apparently going for well over guide now for both low grade and even restored copies according to the other thread.

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

I disagree that it has no bearing or relevance. Every time I sell a book at a show the dealer pulls out his guide to check how my price is compared to guide. Even "multiples of guide" references the guide. Still very relevant in my experience

folks may still quote "% over or under guide" as an after thought, but the guide has virtually NO real world relevance in the prices realized on the big keys (I'm not talking about run of the mill books, obviously, where the guide is in play).... in other words, what I am saying is that no one is thinking, "well, tec 31 guides for 6.5 in gd, so I have to bid accordingly"...they are knowing that from actual sales "tec 31 goes for 20K a point" (or whatever the number is).... you get my thought process...no one that is serious about purchasing a big keys is running to ospg to see about what they should pay....they are using the myriad of real time sales tools at their disposal to make that decision

 

You are just so wrong here, I hardly know where to begin. You've established relevance in your feeble attempt to discredit it. The guide is still what it always has been a "guide" to begin your buying or selling decisions for the overwhelming majority of comics in the hobby. Not just Tec 31 and the flavor of the day

[G.A.tor]

I think the AA 16 will sell below $100k. I'm guessing $75k

 

Well, if this turns out to be the case this would represent a pretty substantial downdraft on this book, as this would mean even be a large discount to guide.

 

Especially since other key GA books are able to fetch substantial premiums to guide in today's hot market, even non-hot less popular books like 'Tec 38 which is apparently going for well over guide now for both low grade and even restored copies according to the other thread.

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

I disagree that it has no bearing or relevance. Every time I sell a book at a show the dealer pulls out his guide to check how my price is compared to guide. Even "multiples of guide" references the guide. Still very relevant in my experience

folks may still quote "% over or under guide" as an after thought, but the guide has virtually NO real world relevance in the prices realized on the big keys (I'm not talking about run of the mill books, obviously, where the guide is in play).... in other words, what I am saying is that no one is thinking, "well, tec 31 guides for 6.5 in gd, so I have to bid accordingly"...they are knowing that from actual sales "tec 31 goes for 20K a point" (or whatever the number is).... you get my thought process...no one that is serious about purchasing a big keys is running to ospg to see about what they should pay....they are using the myriad of real time sales tools at their disposal to make that decision

 

You are just so wrong here, I hardly know where to begin. You've established relevance in your feeble attempt to discredit it. The guide is still what it always has been a "guide" to begin your buying or selling decisions for the overwhelming majority of comics in the hobby. Not just Tec 31 and the flavor of the day

 

Maybe my perspective is unique? Ive spent a large amount of $s on comics the last couple of years and I honestly didn't look At the guide (nor do I know the ospg value) on a single big key I've purchased. So from my frame of reference the guide has no relevance to the prices I've paid or sold

Would be interesting to get other buyers or sellers perspective whether the guide value is relevant to the big keys these days? Maybe some /most/few use the guide , I don't (again, I'm not talking about 90% of comics , I'm just referring to keys ).

[ciorac]

I think the AA 16 will sell below $100k. I'm guessing $75k

 

Well, if this turns out to be the case this would represent a pretty substantial downdraft on this book, as this would mean even be a large discount to guide.

 

Especially since other key GA books are able to fetch substantial premiums to guide in today's hot market, even non-hot less popular books like 'Tec 38 which is apparently going for well over guide now for both low grade and even restored copies according to the other thread.

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

I disagree that it has no bearing or relevance. Every time I sell a book at a show the dealer pulls out his guide to check how my price is compared to guide. Even "multiples of guide" references the guide. Still very relevant in my experience

folks may still quote "% over or under guide" as an after thought, but the guide has virtually NO real world relevance in the prices realized on the big keys (I'm not talking about run of the mill books, obviously, where the guide is in play).... in other words, what I am saying is that no one is thinking, "well, tec 31 guides for 6.5 in gd, so I have to bid accordingly"...they are knowing that from actual sales "tec 31 goes for 20K a point" (or whatever the number is).... you get my thought process...no one that is serious about purchasing a big keys is running to ospg to see about what they should pay....they are using the myriad of real time sales tools at their disposal to make that decision

 

You are just so wrong here, I hardly know where to begin. You've established relevance in your feeble attempt to discredit it. The guide is still what it always has been a "guide" to begin your buying or selling decisions for the overwhelming majority of comics in the hobby. Not just Tec 31 and the flavor of the day

 

Maybe my perspective is unique? Ive spent a large amount of $s on comics the last couple of years and I honestly didn't look At the guide (nor do I know the ospg value) on a single big key I've purchased. So from my frame of reference the guide has no relevance to the prices I've paid or sold

Would be interesting to get other buyers or sellers perspective whether the guide value is relevant to the big keys these ? Maybe some /most/few use the guide , I don't (again, I'm not talking about 90% of comics , I'm just referring to keys ).

 

as I said to you in the text, you deal in 50 books out of 50,000 books. Your sample is too small to be relevant to this discussion

[Dark Knight]

The way I value books, specifically keys because that's mostly what I buy/collect, is to look at past sales from as much venues I can find. Maybe even asking a couple dealers who may have sold the book before about their input and opinion on what market value is. For books that have frequently sold in a monthly basis, GPA sales is useful (mostly for SA and BA books).

 

I have not looked at the OSPG since I started getting serious about this hobby. I just feel that the values on all key books in the guide is outdated and does not really present the overall current market value. It is great for non-keys and possibly some semi-keys though.

[G.A.tor]

The way I value books, specifically keys because that's mostly what I buy/collect, is to look at past sales from as much venues I can find. Maybe even asking a couple dealers who may have sold the book before about their input and opinion on what market value is. For books that have frequently sold in a monthly basis, GPA sales is useful (mostly for SA and BA books).

 

I have not looked at the OSPG since I started getting serious about this hobby. I just feel that the values on all key books in the guide is outdated and does not really present the overall current market value. It is great for non-keys and possibly some semi-keys though.

 

My point exactly (thumbs u

[Mmehdy]

I think the AA 16 will sell below $100k. I'm guessing $75k

 

Well, if this turns out to be the case this would represent a pretty substantial downdraft on this book, as this would mean even be a large discount to guide.

 

Especially since other key GA books are able to fetch substantial premiums to guide in today's hot market, even non-hot less popular books like 'Tec 38 which is apparently going for well over guide now for both low grade and even restored copies according to the other thread.

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

I disagree that it has no bearing or relevance. Every time I sell a book at a show the dealer pulls out his guide to check how my price is compared to guide. Even "multiples of guide" references the guide. Still very relevant in my experience

folks may still quote "% over or under guide" as an after thought, but the guide has virtually NO real world relevance in the prices realized on the big keys (I'm not talking about run of the mill books, obviously, where the guide is in play).... in other words, what I am saying is that no one is thinking, "well, tec 31 guides for 6.5 in gd, so I have to bid accordingly"...they are knowing that from actual sales "tec 31 goes for 20K a point" (or whatever the number is).... you get my thought process...no one that is serious about purchasing a big keys is running to ospg to see about what they should pay....they are using the myriad of real time sales tools at their disposal to make that decision

 

You are just so wrong here, I hardly know where to begin. You've established relevance in your feeble attempt to discredit it. The guide is still what it always has been a "guide" to begin your buying or selling decisions for the overwhelming majority of comics in the hobby. Not just Tec 31 and the flavor of the day

 

If anything is feeble its the current Overstreet AD guide.. I mean its called a price guide...or whatever...I recommend that you buy one every ten years to get a big laugh ...BUT nobody is gonna use this seriouslywith Ha,CL and other live results for the ACTUAL MARKET results. I don't need Bob Overstreet to tell me action one is valuable, maybe in 1970 blue edition....

The OSPG is a reference...a book of the past..showing some type of value as a guide...not an actual market price...but a suggestion...The guide is great as a reference book...but 90% of the prices are actually too high or too low at any given time according to actual market price.

 

I like the guide for what it is...or maybe what it used to be.....a indication of a what value might be...not in real time...but once a year time......or make that once upon a time.....

[Sqeggs]

It may be time for another episode in the popular series "Sqeggs's Tales of Early Fandom."

 

As anyone with a copy of the first printing of the first edition of Overstreet knows, it was originally titled the Overstreet Price List, not Price Guide. Bob was short of money and intended to sell off his collection. The book was his sales catalog.

 

But so many people requested a copy -- mistaking it for a price guide -- that he realized he could sell copies and make enough dough not to have to give up his collection. On the second printing he changed the title to Price Guide, and the rest, my friends, is history.

 

One of the few fans who realized that the first printing was a sales catalog was Chuck Rozanski. I remember talking with him at the time, and, man, was he jealous! "What a fabulous collection that *&$# Overstreet has. What I wouldn't give to have something like it!"

 

"Chuck," I said, "what about that load of the Church kids were trying do dump on you?" He got kind of thoughtful, "Well, normally I wouldn't touch stuff like that -- most of it was stored in a basement, you know ... but maybe ... hmm."

 

Just the way it happened. You could look it up!

[roulette44]

I think the AA 16 will sell below $100k. I'm guessing $75k

 

Well, if this turns out to be the case this would represent a pretty substantial downdraft on this book, as this would mean even be a large discount to guide.

 

Especially since other key GA books are able to fetch substantial premiums to guide in today's hot market, even non-hot less popular books like 'Tec 38 which is apparently going for well over guide now for both low grade and even restored copies according to the other thread.

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

I disagree that it has no bearing or relevance. Every time I sell a book at a show the dealer pulls out his guide to check how my price is compared to guide. Even "multiples of guide" references the guide. Still very relevant in my experience

folks may still quote "% over or under guide" as an after thought, but the guide has virtually NO real world relevance in the prices realized on the big keys (I'm not talking about run of the mill books, obviously, where the guide is in play).... in other words, what I am saying is that no one is thinking, "well, tec 31 guides for 6.5 in gd, so I have to bid accordingly"...they are knowing that from actual sales "tec 31 goes for 20K a point" (or whatever the number is).... you get my thought process...no one that is serious about purchasing a big keys is running to ospg to see about what they should pay....they are using the myriad of real time sales tools at their disposal to make that decision

 

You are just so wrong here, I hardly know where to begin. You've established relevance in your feeble attempt to discredit it. The guide is still what it always has been a "guide" to begin your buying or selling decisions for the overwhelming majority of comics in the hobby. Not just Tec 31 and the flavor of the day

 

Maybe my perspective is unique? Ive spent a large amount of $s on comics the last couple of years and I honestly didn't look At the guide (nor do I know the ospg value) on a single big key I've purchased. So from my frame of reference the guide has no relevance to the prices I've paid or sold

Would be interesting to get other buyers or sellers perspective whether the guide value is relevant to the big keys these ? Maybe some /most/few use the guide , I don't (again, I'm not talking about 90% of comics , I'm just referring to keys ).

 

as I said to you in the text, you deal in 50 books out of 50,000 books. Your sample is too small to be relevant to this discussion

 

 

Go get him buddy!! It's about time someone stands up to that bully GAtor!!

 

I focus on key books too and while ospg is not the only (or even best) reference for pricing, it can't be ignored!

[roulette44]

It may be time for another episode in the popular series "Sqeggs's Tales of Early Fandom."

 

As anyone with a copy of the first printing of the first edition of Overstreet knows, it was originally titled the Overstreet Price List, not Price Guide. Bob was short of money and intended to sell off his collection. The book was his sales catalog.

 

But so many people requested a copy -- mistaking it for a price guide -- that he realized he could sell copies and make enough dough not to have to give up his collection. On the second printing he changed the title to Price Guide, and the rest, my friends, is history.

 

One of the few fans who realized that the first printing was a sales catalog was Chuck Rozanski. I remember talking with him at the time, and, man, was he jealous! "What a fabulous collection that *&$# Overstreet has. What I wouldn't give to have something like it!"

 

"Chuck," I said, "what about that load of the Church kids were trying do dump on you?" He got kind of thoughtful, "Well, normally I wouldn't touch stuff like that -- most of it was stored in a basement, you know ... but maybe ... hmm."

 

Just the way it happened. You could look it up!

 

 

Such an awesome story, thanks for sharing!! I had no idea!! Does chuckles at least pay you some sort of residual in cash or books for the advice?!

[Cat-Man_America]

It may be time for another episode in the popular series "Sqeggs's Tales of Early Fandom."

 

As anyone with a copy of the first printing of the first edition of Overstreet knows, it was originally titled the Overstreet Price List, not Price Guide. Bob was short of money and intended to sell off his collection. The book was his sales catalog.

 

But so many people requested a copy -- mistaking it for a price guide -- that he realized he could sell copies and make enough dough not to have to give up his collection. On the second printing he changed the title to Price Guide, and the rest, my friends, is history.

 

One of the few fans who realized that the first printing was a sales catalog was Chuck Rozanski. I remember talking with him at the time, and, man, was he jealous! "What a fabulous collection that *&$# Overstreet has. What I wouldn't give to have something like it!"

 

"Chuck," I said, "what about that load of the Church kids were trying do dump on you?" He got kind of thoughtful, "Well, normally I wouldn't touch stuff like that -- most of it was stored in a basement, you know ... but maybe ... hmm."

 

Just the way it happened. You could look it up!

 

 

Post it in the FANDOM thread.

 

That poor thread has taken to carrying a battered cardboard sign that says "Will work for posts!"

 

I think the AA 16 will sell below $100k. I'm guessing $75k

 

Well, if this turns out to be the case this would represent a pretty substantial downdraft on this book, as this would mean even be a large discount to guide.

 

Especially since other key GA books are able to fetch substantial premiums to guide in today's hot market, even non-hot less popular books like 'Tec 38 which is apparently going for well over guide now for both low grade and even restored copies according to the other thread.

as a long timer, its "fun" to hear folks still refer to "relative to guide" pricing when it comes to keys... we all know the guide has little bearing or relevance these days, but still brings a smile to my face to here it

 

I disagree that it has no bearing or relevance. Every time I sell a book at a show the dealer pulls out his guide to check how my price is compared to guide. Even "multiples of guide" references the guide. Still very relevant in my experience

folks may still quote "% over or under guide" as an after thought, but the guide has virtually NO real world relevance in the prices realized on the big keys (I'm not talking about run of the mill books, obviously, where the guide is in play).... in other words, what I am saying is that no one is thinking, "well, tec 31 guides for 6.5 in gd, so I have to bid accordingly"...they are knowing that from actual sales "tec 31 goes for 20K a point" (or whatever the number is).... you get my thought process...no one that is serious about purchasing a big keys is running to ospg to see about what they should pay....they are using the myriad of real time sales tools at their disposal to make that decision

 

You are just so wrong here, I hardly know where to begin. You've established relevance in your feeble attempt to discredit it. The guide is still what it always has been a "guide" to begin your buying or selling decisions for the overwhelming majority of comics in the hobby. Not just Tec 31 and the flavor of the day

 

Maybe my perspective is unique? Ive spent a large amount of $s on comics the last couple of years and I honestly didn't look At the guide (nor do I know the ospg value) on a single big key I've purchased. So from my frame of reference the guide has no relevance to the prices I've paid or sold

Would be interesting to get other buyers or sellers perspective whether the guide value is relevant to the big keys these ? Maybe some /most/few use the guide , I don't (again, I'm not talking about 90% of comics , I'm just referring to keys ).

 

as I said to you in the text, you deal in 50 books out of 50,000 books. Your sample is too small to be relevant to this discussion

 

 

Go get him buddy!! It's about time someone stands up to that bully GAtor!!

 

I focus on key books too and while ospg is not the only (or even best) reference for pricing, it can't be ignored!

 

Ciorac knows how to subdue Gator by rolling him over and scratching his tummy.

 

OSPG has been struggling to regain it's relevance since Theo posted his famous bikini brief ad back in the 70's. Madison Avenue marketing departments have lost their jobs for less!

 

[Bronty]

When it comes to prices, I'm with Mitch, the vast majority of prices on all books are out to lunch. I love it "for what it used to be" as well but as a practical day to day pricing tool it's a dodo bird and has been for at least a decade.

[Socratic Wonder]

I just buy the OSPG for the Articles

[Flex Mentallo]

Ciorac knows how to subdue Gator

 

 

Seconds out...

[G.A.tor]

so far, the majority of posters have stated that do NOT use OSPG for pricing key comics...I would say my position has some support

 

 

that said, please don't confuse my "not relevant" statement to be a general statement of the guide.... couldn't be further from the truth...

the guide has always been the "bible" for comic collectors... it is invaluable in so many senses, and it is still a very used guide for pricing many many thousands of more common comics...

 

but, as is readily apparent to me (even if not to ciorac ), very few, it any , really, truly use the guide to price keys these days (which was my only point) ...it is just not practical and is virtually not relevant for those top books ...

 

I honestly couldn't tell you (because I haven't looked in years) what the guide is for AF15 in any grade...but I can tell you what it sells for in just about every grade... to me, that defines my position (and for many)...

 

now, green lantern 17?...you bet, I need the guide to establish some pricing guidelines because it is not a book that sells prominently every day, and not one that most folks follow...

 

I rest my case

[Flex Mentallo]

so far, the majority of posters have stated that do NOT use OSPG for pricing key comics...I would say my position has some support

 

 

that said, please don't confuse my "not relevant" statement to be a general statement of the guide.... couldn't be further from the truth...

the guide has always been the "bible" for comic collectors... it is invaluable in so many senses, and it is still a very used guide for pricing many many thousands of more common comics...

 

but, as is readily apparent to me (even if not to ciorac ), very few, it any , really, truly use the guide to price keys these days (which was my only point) ...it is just not practical and is virtually not relevant for those top books ...

 

I honestly couldn't tell you (because I haven't looked in years) what the guide is for AF15 in any grade...but I can tell you what it sells for in just about every grade... to me, that defines my position (and for many)...

 

now, green lantern 17?...you bet, I need the guide to establish some pricing guidelines because it is not a book that sells prominently every day, and not one that most folks follow...

 

I rest my case

 

Any surge in the market will be ignored by Overstreet. Baker romance being a case in point. [i once picked up a Cinderella Love #25 in Fine for $10 - strict guide when the book had already surged]

 

I would rely on GAtor for accurate valuation, not just of keys, but many other GA books.

 

But Bill is also right about the value and use of the guide.

 

I don't find the two positions incompatible. Both have practical application.