Cameo 1st Appearances VS 1st Full Appearances In Marvel Comics

[Professor Pecora]

It's been a while since I wrote a journal post, but this is one of the topics that I have wanted to write about for some time now.

 

I primarily collect Marvel Comics with a focus on Bronze and Copper Keys, so for any DC fans or collectors reading this journal, I welcome your feedback and your DC perspective on the topic. :-)

 

To begin the discussion, I would like to start by mentioning probably the most famous brief cameo appearance in Marvel Comic's history, which is none other than the 1st appearance of Wolverine, featured in the Incredible Hulk #180, published in October of 1974.

 

I remember when I purchased arguably the finest copy of Incredible Hulk #180 CGC 9.8 WP, which was one of the two Suscha News Pedigrees, for $4,500 from Darren Adams of Pristine Comics back in March of 2013. A year prior to making my purchase, Darren sold a Suscha News Pedigree of Incredible Hulk #181 CGC 9.8 WP; Wolverine's 1st full appearance...for $15,000! That is more than 3 times the amount of Wolverine's 1st true (but very brief) single-panel cameo appearance!

 

Why is this so? If Incredible Hulk #180 documents the very 1st time Wolverine was brought into existence, then why does this issue continue to be undervalued? I came up with three very important factors to consider:

 

1) There isn't much of the character being offered in a cameo 1st appearance; sometimes the character is just there and not involved in much of the action. A good example is the 1st appearance of Gambit (in a cameo) in X-Men Annual #14, published in 1990. Gambit is featured in several panels, but is really not doing much in comparison to his 1st full appearance in Uncanny X-Men #266, in which he plays an intricate role in aiding Storm.

 

2) The character is not featured on the front cover, like most 1st full appearance issues display. Think Incredible Hulk #181 (1st full appearance of Wolverine), X-Men #101 (Origin and 1st appearance of Phoenix), Daredevil #111 (1st appearance of the Silver Samurai), Daredevil #131 (Origin and 1st appearance of the new Bullseye), and Iron Fist #14 (1st appearance of Sabretooth).

 

3) The first full appearance is widely considered the acceptable "rite of passage" in the comic book collecting industry, in order for a new character to become "official." Therefore, demand for a character's 1st full appearance will in most cases command more cash than the character's prior cameo appearance (if applicable).

 

So let's look at some Bronze and Copper cameo 1st appearances VS their 1st full appearance counterparts. I typically purchase and collect CGC 9.8 books, so I will be comparing current fair market values (as of July 23, 2015) at the CGC 9.8 Universal Grade.

 

Character: Wolverine

Incredible Hulk #180 (cameo) VS Incredible Hulk #181 (full)

$2,500-$3,000 VS $9,000-$12,000

 

Character: Mystique

Ms. Marvel #16 (cameo) VS Ms. Marvel #18 (full)

$350-$500 VS $900-$1,200

 

Character: Gambit

X-Men Annual #14 (cameo) VS Uncanny X-Men #266 (full)

$120-$175 VS $350-$475

 

Character: Apocalypse

X-Factor #5 (cameo) VS X-Factor #6 (full)

$100-$150 VS $300-$450

 

Character: Venom

Amazing Spider-Man #299 (cameo) VS Amazing Spider-Man #300 (full)

$200-$275 VS $1,000-$1,300

 

Characters: Starjammers

X-Men #104 (cameo) VS X-Men #107 (full)

$450-$600 VS $800-$1300

 

As you can see from the list above, the numbers don't lie! Every character's 1st full appearance is valued more than its predated cameo appearance. With the exception of Mystique (Ms. Marvel #18) and Venom (Amazing Spider-Man #300), every character is featured on the front cover in their 1st full appearance.

 

In terms of Amazing Spider-Man #300, Todd McFarlane's cover art is a certified "classic," as this issue also illustrates the last time Spider-Man would wear the black costume. In addition, the black costume is symbolic to Venom (which is also identifiable to his physical appearance), and I believe most collectors just find the cover really cool to collect (even if they're not a Venom or Amazing Spider-Man fan). These are some of the reasons why I believe this Copper Key continues to soar in value, along with the hordes of Amazing Spider-Man collectors seeking out the best copies for their prized collections.

 

On the other hand, the 1st full appearance of Mystique in Ms. Marvel #18 does not feature Mystique on the front cover; but rather Marvel Girl enlarged in the center with some of the Avengers in the background and subtitled at the bottom, "Even Avengers Can Die!" Mystique is a HUGE X-Men character; a super-villainess who has appeared in ALL of the major blockbuster X-Men films and has even led the brotherhood of evil mutants. Therefore, Ms. Marvel #18 is by far undervalued in our current market.

 

However, I truly believe that if Mystique was drawn on the front cover and had a headline like, "Now Behold the Mysterious Mystique," I bet the prices would be at least double than what they are currently selling for! This is also the same scenario with the 1st appearance of Rogue in Avengers Annual #10; CGC 9.8 copies are only going for $200-$400 at best, and if it wasn't noted on the CGC label, you would have no idea that this issue featured her 1st appearance. What does this reveal? That a character featured on the front cover in their 1st appearance helps increase overall collector demand and value.

 

Now take a moment to analyze the following comparisons:

 

Character: Bishop

Uncanny X-Men #282 (cameo) VS Uncanny X-Men #283 (full)

$100-$150 VS $75-$100

 

Characters: Alpha Flight

X-Men #120 (cameo) VS X-Men #121 (full)

$1,000-$1,400 VS $350-$475

 

What do you notice? Or did I make a mistake in current CGC 9.8 market values and need to reverse the numbers? Nope! That's right! These books represent a few examples in which the cameo appearance is consistently selling more than its 1st full appearance counterpart!

 

What's different with these issues? Well as one of my 3 initial points, you will notice that Bishop and Alpha Flight are featured on the front cover in their 1st cameo appearance, unlike any of the other cameo 1st appearance issues mentioned above! I am pretty confident that the X-Men film, "Days of Future Past," has helped to increase the value of Uncanny X-Men #282, as it was the first time an actor portrayed Bishop on the big screen. However, if you look at the front cover of Uncanny X-Men #282, you will see Bishop standing directly in the center with plasma balls emitting from his hands, with a catchy title reading..."His Name Is Bishop!" Of course you want to grab you a copy of his 1st true appearance because he's featured on the front cover and represented very well!

 

Similarly, X-Men #120 features the 1st cameo appearance of Alpha Flight, but artists Bob Budiansky and Terry Austin decided to depict them on the front cover in a silhouette, as they look upon the X-Men from a distance while they are fleeing for safety! Again, Alpha Flight is featured on the front cover in their 1st true cameo appearance, which means more interest, demand and higher sales than its 1st full appearance counterpart in X-Men #121.

 

Another fact to consider for the extreme difference in value is that X-Men #120 is printed on a black cover; while X-Men #121 is printed on a white cover. As a direct result, higher grade copies of X-Men #120 will naturally be scarcer, due to the smallest of defects being noticeable by the CGC graders. For instance, according to the CGC Census as of July 23, 2015, there are only 51 Universal Graded 9.8 copies of X-Men #120; whereas there are 193 Universal Graded 9.8 copies of X-Men #121.

 

These statistics definitely fuel the demand for acquiring a high grade copy of X-Men #120, but nevertheless...the fact that Alpha Flight's 1st cameo appearance is portrayed on the front cover (just like Bishop's 1st cameo appearance), certainly influences its collector value. The result is that an X-Men #120 CGC 9.8 will sell for roughly 3 times the value of an X-Men #121 CGC 9.8.

 

Now just imagine if Wolverine was depicted on the cover of Incredible Hulk #180; do you think there would be that much of a price difference between Incredible Hulk #180 and #181 in CGC 9.8? My guess is not by much; especially considering that there are way less 9.8s of Incredible Hulk #180 than there are of Incredible Hulk #181. Who knows...It might even surpass the value of an Incredible Hulk #181, as Incredible Hulk #180 represents Wolverine's first true appearance and having that displayed on the front cover would make a HUGE difference!

 

So there you have it; Uncanny X-Men #282 (1st Bishop) and X-Men #120 (1st Alpha Flight) are two books in which the character's cameo 1st appearance is worth more than their 1st full appearance. Further, this has a direct correlation to them being featured on the front cover; as opposed to the other character's 1st cameo appearances not being depicted on the front cover.

 

With that being said, if more of the 1st cameo appearances represented the character on the front cover, I think we would see a difference in the overall price and collector demand for these 1st cameo appearances. I believe that collectors would have more respect for their 1st true cameo appearances if they were displayed on the covers; after all, when a book is slabbed, all you see is the front cover art...so the notes stating that a specific character 1st appears without seeing the character represented physically in beautiful colored inks...is simply not as appealing.

 

I leave you with a high-resolution scan of X-Men #120 CGC 9.8 WP, which was my personal copy before I sold it at auction in November of 2013 for $1,326! By the way...I want my copy back! ()

 

I am actually currently looking for another worthy 9.8 candidate; raw or slabbed to be featured in my newly assembled X-Men #94-#143 set entitled, "The Xecution!" I haven't officially launched it yet, as I have several more books to add, but it's coming together pretty nicely-so definitely check it out if you have the chance: http://comics.www.collectors-society.com/registry/comics/PeopleSetDetail.aspx?PeopleSetID=73090

 

Thanks for reading and Happy Collecting!

 

-Professor Pecora

[Hutch88]

I agree Dime Press 4 (Hellboy cameo, cover only) vs. SDCC #2, or Next Men 21. Is easily double probably more. Though not marvel or D.C. Hutch88

[surfer99]

So good to see you back and posting amazing journals like this Professor! What a great read. Totally concur with all your points. Got me thinking of other characters like the Living Tribunal where they had a cameo on the last page and then a full appearance with the character on the cover (Strange Tales 158). That cover shot of the character is definitely the draw. Best of luck with your X-men set!

 

 

[SW3D]

Welcome Back Professor!

 

It's been a long time and I'm so happy to read your journal and also to know you are collecting again.

 

Great topic... cameos vs. 1st full appearances... a debate that could go on forever, with so many opinions and pov's that it is plain to see there is no one way to view it.

 

I'm the kind of collector, that if I love the character enough, I'll probably collect the cameo and 1st full appearance, if such exist. If I'm buying strictly for investment purposes, I may buy one or the other, of both if I feel there is value and fits into my budget.

 

It's obvious the comic book market is tricky and subjective... and unpredictable.

 

SW3D

 

 

 

 

[Professor Pecora]

I agree Dime Press 4 (Hellboy cameo, cover only) vs. SDCC #2, or Next Men 21. Is easily double probably more. Though not marvel or D.C. Hutch88

 

Thanks for sharing Hutch88. I never knew what comic book title and publisher contained the 1st appearance of Hell Boy until reading your response.

 

You caught my curiosity, so I looked the books up on eBay, and you added a great example to list; a copy of Dime Press #4 (cameo appearance on front cover) is definitely selling for more than double the amount of a same graded copy of Next Men #21! Pretty cool brother!

 

I truly believe that it has to do with Hellboy actually being depicted on the front cover, for if he wasn't, I highly doubt that Dime Press #4s would be selling for several hundreds of dollars in high grade.

 

Thanks again Hutch!

 

-Professor Pecora

[Professor Pecora]

So good to see you back and posting amazing journals like this Professor! What a great read. Totally concur with all your points. Got me thinking of other characters like the Living Tribunal where they had a cameo on the last page and then a full appearance with the character on the cover (Strange Tales 158). That cover shot of the character is definitely the draw. Best of luck with your X-men set!

 

 

What's up Surfer99! Thanks a lot bro and I appreciate you welcoming me back! I looked up Stange Tales #158 and I also concur with you; the cover really draws one's curiosity into wanting to know more about the character called "The Living Tribunal!" The image is a powerful one as the Living Tribunal has Dr. Strange dropping to his knees with a startling look on his face, after blasting him with some superpowered electromagnetic energy beam trapping his body into a confined space! Awesome late Silver Age Doctor Strange cover!

 

Thanks again for sharing Surfer99!

 

I just won a perfect-looking X-Men #142 CGC 9.8 WP off eBay last night! I feel like I won at a very great price at $214...considering how great this copy looks! I paid less for this copy than I did my previous 9.8 WP copy back in 2013...and I think this one looks better! Once I receive the book, I will be adding it to "The Xecution!"

 

Chat with you soon bro!

 

-Professor Pecora

[Professor Pecora]

Welcome Back Professor!

 

It's been a long time and I'm so happy to read your journal and also to know you are collecting again.

 

Great topic... cameos vs. 1st full appearances... a debate that could go on forever, with so many opinions and pov's that it is plain to see there is no one way to view it.

 

I'm the kind of collector, that if I love the character enough, I'll probably collect the cameo and 1st full appearance, if such exist. If I'm buying strictly for investment purposes, I may buy one or the other, of both if I feel there is value and fits into my budget.

 

It's obvious the comic book market is tricky and subjective... and unpredictable.

 

SW3D

 

 

 

 

What's up SW3D! Yeah it has been a while my brother! I do intend to be more active moving forward because I do thoroughly enjoy contibuting to our wonderful community of collectors!

 

I'm right on with you in terms of collecting both the 1st cameo and 1st full appearance issues of a character if I am really into that particular character. Hence, why I had to purchase both Incredible Hulk #180 and #181...although they are now sold! :-)

 

Maybe one day I will be able to acquire 9.8 copies of IH #180 and #181, but for now I am concentrating on acquiring some of the other minor Bronze & Coper Key 1st appearances in CGC 9.8. I actually won a wicked copy of Daredevil #131 CGC 9.8 WP (Origin and 1st appearance of the new Bullseye) last month, and will be auctioning off the only 9.6 books I own to pay it off.

 

The books I will be auctioning are:

 

Iron Fist #14 CGC 9.6 WP

X-Men #95 CGC 9.6 WP

X-Men #109 CGC 9.6 WP

 

The comic book market is definitely subjective and for the most part unpredictable; but if you study it similar to the way the stock market is analyzed, for the most part (from an investor's perspective)...you can purchase books that will more-than-likely yeild a strong return on investment. I always tell new collectors, whatever you collect...you should always invest in some quality KEY Amazing Spider-Man books to incorporate into one's investment portfolio! :-)

 

-Professor Pecora

[spidrvacc]

One of my favorite topics, will be looking forward to updates.

[spidrvacc]

One of my favorite topics, will be looking forward to updates.

[Hepgwyn]

Very interesting post, made me dig around my own collection to see if I had any of those cameos. thanks

[Professor Pecora]

Very interesting post, made me dig around my own collection to see if I had any of those cameos. thanks

 

Thanks hepgwyn! Glad the post was helpful for you! Let us know if you found any of the 1st cameo appearances listed!

 

-Professor Pecora

[Hepgwyn]

I have them all except Ms. Marvel 16. Those 9.8 prices made me drool. I wish mine were that nice.

[Professor Pecora]

I have them all except Ms. Marvel 16. Those 9.8 prices made me drool. I wish mine were that nice.

 

What's up hepgwyn,

 

Depending on the condition of your books, you might consider having them pressed by CCS and graded by CGC.

 

It all depends on the type of defects noted on your books; there are "good" defects and "bad" defects to consider. If you are unfamiliar with the pressing process, you can learn all about it on the following link:

 

http://www.ccspaper.com/services_pressing.php

 

Those are all great books to have in your collection!

 

-Professor Pecora

 

 

[Hepgwyn]

Hey Prof,

 

thanks for the info,

 

I'm still torn on the concept of pressing, I don't condemn anyone for doing it but at this point I don't think I want to go down that road. I'll probably be kicking myself in the future when it comes time to selling. I've also only been dipping my toe in the CGC pool using the coupon to grade 4 books per year. Most of my books are still raw and in the random condition I bought them in back in the 80s and 90s.