Superman # 1 - Where Are All The High Grade Copies ?

[Peter G]

Thanks for the info Rob.

 

VERY much appreciated ! ! !

 

 

[Peter G]

Darren Adams copy of Action Comics # 1

 

Bought for $82,500 in 1992

 

Sold for 3.2 million in 2014

 

That is a 18.1% compounded growth over 22 years

 

That's a somewhat comparable rate of return to the Nic Cage copy

 

 

[Peter G]

I really would like to determine the rate of return of Superman # 1 next

 

and compare with Action # 1

[RCheli]

Why doesn't CGC differentiate the different printings of Superman #1? I know the house ad for Action... #12? has either an on sale date or "Now on sale".

 

And I'm surprised that a book that was probably one of the higher printed books of the time doesn't have more copies out there.

 

It's a great book, with a great iconic cover.

[nearmint]

Why doesn't CGC differentiate the different printings of Superman #1? I know the house ad for Action... #12? has either an on sale date or "Now on sale".

 

 

We know that the ad for Action #14 reads "On Sale June 2nd" in the first printing, and that it reads "On Sale Now" in the third printing. The problem is that we don't know what version appears in the second printing. So, the "On Sale June 2nd" version could be a first or second printing, and the "On Sale Now" version could be the 2nd or 3rd printing.

[sfcityduck]

Darren Adams copy of Action Comics # 1

 

Bought for $82,500 in 1992

 

Sold for 3.2 million in 2014

 

That is a 18.1% compounded growth over 22 years

 

That's a somewhat comparable rate of return to the Nic Cage copy

 

 

You are confused. The Cage copy was sold at Sotheby's for $82.5K in 1992 (presumably to Metro). Metro then sold it to Cage in 1997 for $150K.

 

Darren Adams bought his book from an unknown seller for over $1 million, I believe around $1.2 million, a few years before selling it. Before that Joe Mannarino of All Star Auctions sold it to the unknown seller over a decade ago for an undisclosed price. Joe bought it from the original owner.

 

 

[G.A.tor]

Darren Adams copy of Action Comics # 1

 

Bought for $82,500 in 1992

 

Sold for 3.2 million in 2014

 

That is a 18.1% compounded growth over 22 years

 

That's a somewhat comparable rate of return to the Nic Cage copy

 

 

You are confused. The Cage copy was sold at Sotheby's for $82.5K in 1992 (presumably to Metro). Metro then sold it to Cage in 1997 for $150K.

 

Darren Adams bought his book from an unknown seller for over $1 million, I believe around $1.2 million, a few years before selling it. Before that Joe Mannarino of All Star Auctions sold it to the unknown seller over a decade ago for an undisclosed price. Joe bought it from the original owner.

 

(thumbs u

[RCheli]

Why doesn't CGC differentiate the different printings of Superman #1? I know the house ad for Action... #12? has either an on sale date or "Now on sale".

 

 

We know that the ad for Action #14 reads "On Sale June 2nd" in the first printing, and that it reads "On Sale Now" in the third printing. The problem is that we don't know what version appears in the second printing. So, the "On Sale June 2nd" version could be a first or second printing, and the "On Sale Now" version could be the 2nd or 3rd printing.

 

Thanks. I thought we knew a little more about that.

 

Would you consider the first print to have a premium price over the others? (Not that I'm currently in the market for a Superman #1.)

[Peter G]

Darren Adams copy of Action Comics # 1

 

Bought for $82,500 in 1992

 

Sold for 3.2 million in 2014

 

That is a 18.1% compounded growth over 22 years

 

That's a somewhat comparable rate of return to the Nic Cage copy

 

 

You are confused. The Cage copy was sold at Sotheby's for $82.5K in 1992 (presumably to Metro). Metro then sold it to Cage in 1997 for $150K.

 

Darren Adams bought his book from an unknown seller for over $1 million, I believe around $1.2 million, a few years before selling it. Before that Joe Mannarino of All Star Auctions sold it to the unknown seller over a decade ago for an undisclosed price. Joe bought it from the original owner.

 

(thumbs u

 

Oh

 

Now I feel silly

[sfcityduck]

The historic rate of return on Action 1, as measured by record Action 1 sales, had been declining with each new record sale. The rate of return from 1938 to 1965 (when the record was $250) was above 30%, but that rate of return descended down into the low teens. That trend, however, suffered a dramatic reversal in 2010-2011 when we saw Action 1 sell for successive records of $1M, $1.5M, and $2.1M (with a short time when D27 was the record holder at $1.1M). Adams, for example, probably got a rate of return on his Action 1 of above 30%, something not seen since the 1960s.

 

You would expect rate of return to decrease as price increases because the pool of potential buyers, and hence demand, is decreasing as the prices get more and more astronomical. That is in fact what happened until very recently.

 

That is why some believe that the latest round of record sales of Action 1 could signal a bubble, a conclusion that is not dispelled by the fact that the last big record sale was a dealer to dealer transaction.

 

Which brings us to the classic caveat: Past performance is not a guarantor of future returns. Especially when looking at performance over a very short time frame.

[VintageComics]

the last big record sale was a dealer to dealer transaction.

 

Personally, I wouldn't put too much weight on this fact.

 

Most big time dealers are also some of the world's biggest collectors. Some of the greatest collections in the world are held by dealers (Halperin, Fishler, etc) but that doesn't prevent them from being collectors as well.

 

To me that aspect of the sale is a non-issue.

[JollyComics]

Doesn't the Dentist's copy look like a 9.2 or a 9.0?

 

Is that same Dentist who shot Cecil? He paid $50K to his guide.

[sfcityduck]

the last big record sale was a dealer to dealer transaction.

 

Personally, I wouldn't put too much weight on this fact.

 

Most big time dealers are also some of the world's biggest collectors. Some of the greatest collections in the world are held by dealers (Halperin, Fishler, etc) but that doesn't prevent them from being collectors as well.

 

To me that aspect of the sale is a non-issue.

 

I think the dealer to dealer aspect isn't a big deal because it was an auction transaction. There was an underbidder who was willing to pay close to the same price. Thus, this wasn't like those rumored sales that used to occur between dealers where they swapped inventory to create the appearance of a record sale.

 

Having said that, though, I think the best sign of a healthy market is record purchases made with money that is entirely new to the comic market. An example would be Cage's purchase of an Action 1 for $150K (and to a lesser extent Jack White's purchase). Such purchases show that folks who have no vested interest in seeing the comic market rise are buying into the perceived value of comics. That's a much more powerful statement of the strength of the market than transactions between an insular and aging group of collector-dealers.

[sfcityduck]

Doesn't the Dentist's copy look like a 9.2 or a 9.0?

 

Is that same Dentist who shot Cecil? He paid $50K to his guide.

 

No. Dentistry is apparently a lucrative profession, though.

[JollyComics]

Nicholas Cage copy of Action Comics # 1

 

Bought for 150k in 1997

 

Sold for 2.16 million in 2011

 

That is a 21% compounded growth over 14 years

 

Not a bad investment

 

That Nick's old book was stolen from his house and was found in the storage unit.

 

LA Police seized it. Metro guy came and confirmed it is authentic Nick's copy.

 

The book was resold for $2.16 million but who claimed it before it was sold? Was the insurance company claiming it because they covered Nick for the loss. Did Nick reclaim it? I have not found anything. Who claimed it?

 

Tec #1 and #27 were never found.

[JollyComics]

Doesn't the Dentist's copy look like a 9.2 or a 9.0?

 

Is that same Dentist who shot Cecil? He paid $50K to his guide.

 

No. Dentistry is apparently a lucrative profession, though.

 

[sfcityduck]

Was the insurance company claiming it because they covered Nick for the loss. Did Nick reclaim it? I have not found anything. Who claimed it?

 

I believe knowledgeable sources on this board indicated that Cage got the proceeds from the transaction minus an amount to reimburse the insurance company for the loss they paid back when it was stolen.

[VintageComics]

Having said that, though, I think the best sign of a healthy market is record purchases made with money that is entirely new to the comic market. An example would be Cage's purchase of an Action 1 for $150K (and to a lesser extent Jack White's purchase). Such purchases show that folks who have no vested interest in seeing the comic market rise are buying into the perceived value of comics. That's a much more powerful statement of the strength of the market than transactions between an insular and aging group of collector-dealers.

 

The term 'new money' can be misleading, though.

 

People spend money on comics because they are collectors. And most collectors start small and work their way up.

 

You don't often have someone who has never had an interest in the books come from out of left field and drop huge cash on a book if they've never collected before. That's what I think of as new money.

 

Cage is apparently a longtime fan. So he might have been 'new' to spending large sums on expensive comics because he wasn't new. He just started buying more expensive times as his ability to spend grew. He sold everything. Does that make him a dealer, old money or just a poor collector ?

 

And again, Halperin bought the first $300K+ plus piece of original art which was a benchmark at the time.

 

Fishler owns tons of art and comics as well as toys, memorabilia, posters, etc. None of which is for sale.

 

Josh Nathenson, Jamie Graham, Bechara - the list goes on and on. All of these guys (as well as almost any other major dealer out there) are collectors as well as dealers. In fact, it's probably fair to say they are dealers because they were collectors first.

 

So again, I don't really care who bought the book at this point as long as it was a real sale.

 

 

[sfcityduck]

Roy,

 

I agree a real sale is a real sale.

 

But, a real sale during a bubble is also a real sale.

 

All I'm saying is that a real sale to Fishler isn't as big an indicator of the health of the market as a real sale to someone who is not an established collector-dealer. After all, Fishler is a market maker. He's buying and selling Action 1 and D27 at a more rapid pace than anyone. Many in private transactions where he is setting the price, instead of competitive bidding. Thus, he has less incentive to be concerned about a bubble when he bids. A bubble is going to benefit him (unless it pops). So, to me, Fishler paying a lot to buy a book, especially when he may also have business reasons to do so, doesn't say as much about the strength of the market as a purchase by a collector (especially a collector relatively new to the high price market).

 

To restate my original point: A dealer to dealer transaction is not evidence that dispells the concern that there is a bubble.

[VintageComics]

And again, I'll say it, most dealers buy from each other for their own personal collections and have for as long as there has been a hobby. I see it as a non-issue. Dealers generally see the good stuff first and often they bring a lot of money to the table. Collectors get what the dealer decides to sell.

 

Look at the line of ownership of the Action #1 over the decades - 3 of the 4 owners of the book are dealers (I don't remember how long Joe owned the book - short or long).

 

But I'll respectfully agree to disagree with you on your point. I just see it differently (being a dealer and a collector).