Amazing Spider-Man 667 1:100 Dell'Otto Variant

[rjrjr]

I think that the books that are not rare and still very valuable are... rare

 

That is certainly the prevailing definition on these boards.

 

"Look at how rare such and such is because it goes for so much money!"

 

Never mind the fact that if you had the money, any given day you could find and buy the comic. Very, very few domestic comics are "rare". Expensive, absolutely. Rare, hardly.

 

I use the $0.35 Star Wars comics as my example. For the most part, anytime I want to buy one of these "rare" issues, I can usually do so (understand that I'm discounting the grade for these issues) if I had the money. But, try and find a newsstand reprint of Star Wars #5 or 6 (also in any condition.) These reprints are much, much harder to find (and #6 is magnitudes tougher than #5.) One sells for thousands. The other (if it can be found) sells for a few bucks. One is deemed "rare". The other "common". And that distinction is based on the value, not the actual trouble one has to go through to find copies.

 

True.

 

#5 and #6 newsstand reprints are absurdly rare, but because no one cares....nothing.

 

The real beast is the #1 30 cent "Direct Market" fat diamond....if it really exists.

 

Here is a link with to the comics we are discussing:

 

Star Wars: 1-6

 

Man would I love to get confirmation on the existence of that Star Wars #1. The other 2 comics that look like it (#2 and #3) come in a 3 pack with issue #4 ($0.30 Direct Market fat diamond - blank UPC), so if that comic is real, it probably was distributed in a 3 pack as well.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sheesh, had a good sleep and now I read all this. What is wrong with you RockMyAmadeus? Don't you have better things to do? You're taking this way too serious. Please go and start searching your hard-to-find ASM26.

 

This is a discussion, much like other discussions around this board. Don't we all have better things to do? Is there a reason you're taking this so personally...? And shouldn't you also be asking what is "wrong" with Jaydogrules...? Or is that not relevant, because you agree with him...?

 

 

Amazing Man #26 isn't ASM #26. They're different books.

 

 

[rjrjr]

Sheesh, had a good sleep and now I read all this. What is wrong with you RockMyAmadeus? Don't you have better things to do? You're taking this way too serious. Please go and start searching your hard-to-find ASM26.

 

Dutch74, I understand your point and apologize for my part in derailing this appreciation thread. That Amazing Spider-Man #667 is a cool book and I can appreciate collectors wanting to own a copy. It's hard to believe a comic printed less than 5 years ago, by a major publisher on a major title none-the-less, is as hard to find as this one. I know if I was a Spider-Man collector, owning this book would be a dream. For those who bought the book for fractions of its current price when it first came out, they must feel pretty giddy knowing how much this comic has realized in auctions over the years.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Dutch74, I understand your point and apologize for my part in derailing this appreciation thread. That Amazing Spider-Man #667 is a cool book and I can appreciate collectors wanting to own a copy. It's hard to believe a comic printed less than 5 years ago, by a major publisher on a major title none-the-less, is as hard to find as this one. I know if I was a Spider-Man collector, owning this book would be a dream. For those who bought the book for fractions of its current price when it first came out, they must feel pretty giddy knowing how much this comic has realized in auctions over the years.

 

Isn't providing accurate information about a book appreciating it...? Doesn't it hinder real appreciation if people believe things about it that aren't true...?

 

I think so.

 

[Dutch74]

 

This is a discussion, much like other discussions around this board. Don't we all have better things to do? Is there a reason you're taking this so personally...? And shouldn't you also be asking what is "wrong" with Jaydogrules...? Or is that not relevant, because you agree with him...?

 

 

Amazing Man #26 isn't ASM #26. They're different books.

 

 

Sorry, mis-read that, probably because this thread is about ASM, not AM and Star Wars

[rjrjr]

Dutch74, I understand your point and apologize for my part in derailing this appreciation thread. That Amazing Spider-Man #667 is a cool book and I can appreciate collectors wanting to own a copy. It's hard to believe a comic printed less than 5 years ago, by a major publisher on a major title none-the-less, is as hard to find as this one. I know if I was a Spider-Man collector, owning this book would be a dream. For those who bought the book for fractions of its current price when it first came out, they must feel pretty giddy knowing how much this comic has realized in auctions over the years.

 

Isn't providing accurate information about a book appreciating it...? Doesn't it hinder true appreciation if people believe things about it that aren't true...?

 

I think so.

 

 

RMA I agree with you about giving accurate information, but I don't see much of a point arguing about the population of this book in it's appreciation thread after you disseminate the information. You did a terrific job explaining why the assumption that only 200 - 500 copies might not be correct, but until more copies surface, collectors have to base their desire to purchase the book on the supply available. It does seem the supply is small (1 or 2 surfacing a year seems small to me for a domestic comic) and more copies may get flushed out over time. Or they may not.

 

I know I've bought books that I assumed were rare and the community assume were rare, only to find out later that was not the case. My example is the Colombian Star Wars #1 - 4. I bought my first issue of #1 for a decent sum early last year. Then I proceeded to purchase 6 more issue #1s 2-3 months later for a fraction of that first price. It turns out there was a warehouse find of the Colombian Star Wars #1 - 4 and I ended up buying up as many of those copies as I could afford (6 #1s, 21 #2s, 14 #3s, and a whopping 46 #4s.) Do I regret the first purchase? Absolutely not. That warehouse find may end up being a fluke and the subsequent purchases I made may end up being a once in a lifetime opportunity. Or more copies may show up in another warehouse. I made my decision on my desire (sickness?) and ability to own as many copies of Star Wars comics, both domestic and foreign, as I can.

 

I've always been one to caution others on assuming a comic is rare. With foreign comics, this caution is important unless you live in the country and know the true population of the comics you are seeking out. With regards to domestic comics, it is pretty well know that very few comics are truly rare. But that doesn't stop collectors from wanting the comics regardless. The comic landscape is littered with comics that are priced high for no reason other than a desire by collectors to own a copy, regardless of the rationale behind the purchase.

 

Look at my posting history here and you'll see ample examples of my posting about inaccurate information about comics. But, I make my post, maybe hang around to ensure my point is understood, and then I move on. I doubt I've changed anyone's mind but I feel good that I did the best I could to give accurate information. Collectors, myself include, love to conjure up excuses to purchase (or sell) comics for more than they should. I understand that. I think Jaydog and others get your point(s), but it won't diminish their enthusiasm for this book.

 

Sorry for the long winded response.

[Dutch74]

enough said about this, don't want to get into some sort of a flame. But I wanted to let you know that all this discussion didn't feel right. RockMyAmadeus: if you have a beef with Jay, do it per PM.

 

BTW: RockMyAmadeus is a cool nickname :-)

[RockMyAmadeus]

enough said about this, don't want to get into some sort of a flame. But I wanted to let you know that all this discussion didn't feel right. RockMyAmadeus: if you have a beef with Jay, do it per PM.

 

I have no beef with Jay. He frequently posts inaccurate information, but I have nothing against him personally, as I said earlier. Perhaps now you should order Jay to do the same...?

 

 

BTW: RockMyAmadeus is a cool nickname :-)

 

Thanks!

[Jaydogrules]

RMA, Bababooey, jsilverjanet-

 

A B&W Mouse Guard just sold yesterday for over $1500. And not only were there "only" two bidders who participated in that auction, but two TOTAL bids placed.

 

Please take your circus over to their appreciation thread and lecture them on how that auction result is meaningless, how the creator of the book most definitely has several cases of the book sitting uncirculated in his garage, and how "pedestrian" the artwork is. And make sure you email the seller on ebay to tell him that it is only "imaginary, goodwill money" that he will be collecting and pocketing since "only" two people tried half heartedly to win his book. I'm sure he really wants to hear from you too.

 

Or perhaps the owners of the Campbell Wolverine 1 thread would appreciate some feedback from you since "just" one buyer dropped $1350 for a raw copy of that "common" variant as well recently. Kuddy also tells me he "only" sold his 9.8 copy for $3000 once to "only" one interested buyer, so I'm sure he will be interested to know that in Bizarro world that wasn't a "real" sale indicative of anything either (sorry GPA, and, you know, The Market, but what do you know?, we have "real" experts here who know better than you ).

 

Or maybe the boardie who just spent $1100 for a 9.6 UXM 510 partial sketch would like to hear over in that book's appreciation thread how the BIN price he just paid "doesn't count" either because he is just one buyer who could only buy his book once and there is no evidence that a second (or third or fourth or tenth or hundredth buyer) would have been willing to pay the same price for that "common as dirt" variant.

 

Or perhaps you can take some real initiative and start your own appreciation thread for the "falling out of the trees it's so prevalent" Campbell siege 3 variant and preemptively threadkrap it.

 

Because until you've gone out and found a copy- any copy, for any price- of the 667 Dell'otto to post and share in this thread, I think we (the fans/owners/admirers of the book) have had enough of you here for now. Thank you.

 

Back on topic (again)...

 

So are there really only 2 (or three) boardies who currently own this book ? I'm figuring at this point the winner of the auction of the one from Monday isn't a member of these boards. Or perhaps he/she is, but is turned off by the sh!tshow that a few have tried to turn this thread into and have been dissuaded from posting their enviable new acquisition. Hopefully not.

 

-J.

[bababooey]

OK

 

[Jaydogrules]

OK

 

 

 

-J.

[r100comics]

 

Some rambling thoughts.

 

I'm enjoying the discussion and it's really no different to any of the appreciation threads, they are rarely a unanimous love-in.

 

It's pretty simple - the price is a product of the lack of supply. As long as supply stays low the price will hold.

 

The sale price is the sale price, irrespective of how many bidders were at that level. GPA doesn't reflect market depth, it reflects sale price. It only takes 2 bidders at any given auction for the price to hold.

 

The Dell'Otto is a nice cover, much better than the MJ variant, and that will be telling in the long run (for both books).

 

Marvel are not pulping books, they are a business, so it's pretty unlikely there are only 200 copies.

 

Books that were pulped and genuinely do only have 200 copies are one's like LOEG #5 (Recalled) which had to be destroyed for legal reasons after 1 shipment had already made it to the UK.

 

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

Some rambling thoughts.

 

I'm enjoying the discussion and it's really no different to any of the appreciation threads, they are rarely a unanimous love-in.

 

It's pretty simple - the price is a product of the lack of supply. As long as supply stays low the price will hold.

 

The sale price is the sale price, irrespective of how many bidders were at that level. GPA doesn't reflect market depth, it reflects sale price. It only takes 2 bidders at any given auction for the price to hold.

 

The Dell'Otto is a nice cover, much better than the MJ variant, and that will be telling in the long run (for both books).

 

Marvel are not pulping books, they are a business, so it's pretty unlikely there are only 200 copies.

 

Books that were pulped and genuinely do only have 200 copies are one's like LOEG #5 (Recalled) which had to be destroyed for legal reasons after 1 shipment had already made it to the UK.

 

 

 

OP notified - too much logic in your post

[Jaydogrules]

Some rambling thoughts.

 

I'm enjoying the discussion and it's really no different to any of the appreciation threads, they are rarely a unanimous love-in.

 

It's pretty simple - the price is a product of the lack of supply. As long as supply stays low the price will hold.

 

The sale price is the sale price, irrespective of how many bidders were at that level. GPA doesn't reflect market depth, it reflects sale price. It only takes 2 bidders at any given auction for the price to hold.

 

The Dell'Otto is a nice cover, much better than the MJ variant, and that will be telling in the long run (for both books).

 

Marvel are not pulping books, they are a business, so it's pretty unlikely there are only 200 copies.

 

Books that were pulped and genuinely do only have 200 copies are one's like LOEG #5 (Recalled) which had to be destroyed for legal reasons after 1 shipment had already made it to the UK.

 

 

 

OP notified - too much logic in your post

 

Odd.. I was just about to PM you his post myself.

 

Though I do still err on the extreme low end of the estimates that I have seen for how many available copies that are out there (and I've seen some estimates below 200 even, all the way down to 150).

 

The utter dearth of them on the market, in collections, and on the census speaks for itself.

 

-J.

 

 

[Lazyboy]

Though I do still err on the extreme low end of the estimates that I have seen for how many available copies that are out there (and I've seen some estimates below 200 even, all the way down to 150).

 

Well, that's for sure. You always err on the extreme low end based solely on the very limited information you have.

 

Unless it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

The utter dearth of them on the market, in collections, and on the census speaks for itself.

 

Well, you can see what is online, which is a significant part of the market. However, the CGC census still means very little to the hobby as a whole and I'm pretty sure you know as little as most and less than many about the contents of other people's collections.

[RockMyAmadeus]

RMA, Bababooey, jsilverjanet-

 

A B&W Mouse Guard just sold yesterday for over $1500. And not only were there "only" two bidders who participated in that auction, but two TOTAL bids placed.

 

Please take your circus over to their appreciation thread and lecture them on how that auction result is meaningless,

 

Again...no one has said anything about these auction results being "meaningless." If you want to have the discussion, let's have the discussion, but without the misrepresentation of what other people say in the process.

 

So let me say it, again, as clearly as I can: no one is disputing that people are willing to pay these prices. Clearly, some people are. The issue is why people are willing to pay these prices. And if they're willing to pay these prices because they genuinely want the book, they want it now, and don't care about more copies potentially showing up, great. That's what collecting is all about.

 

However....if they're paying these prices, and prices that are clearly extreme for essentially new items, because they believe the mistaken idea that there are "only ~200 copies out there", and there's no chance there aren't any hiding somewhere, or worse, they're buying because they believe this will just continue to "escalate in price" (that is, speculation)...then they're setting themselves up for a potential disappointment down the road.

 

You don't understand that these things are said out of concern, but they really are. Healthy markets are important and beneficial to everyone. Speculation, however, is not. Market instability does real damage to real people, and that's something everyone should be concerned with.

 

How many people lost everything they had in the market crash of the mid-90's? Quite a few. Several thousand comic shops went out of business between 1994 and 1997, and precisely because of speculation throughout the entire industry. Were they all buffoons who deserved to go out of business? No. Some of them were good, sober-minded businesses that simply couldn't fight the flood, and were swept away with all of the trash.

 

how the creator of the book most definitely has several cases of the book sitting uncirculated in his garage,

 

Nobody said anything like that at all.

 

and how "pedestrian" the artwork is.

 

Again...it's personal preference. I doubt the cover is going to be winning any polls at any time. You're going to have a tough row to hoe trying to convince people it's a "classic."

 

And make sure you email the seller on ebay to tell him that it is only "imaginary, goodwill money" that he will be collecting and pocketing since "only" two people tried half heartedly to win his book. I'm sure he really wants to hear from you too.

 

Or perhaps the owners of the Campbell Wolverine 1 thread would appreciate some feedback from you since "just" one buyer dropped $1350 for a raw copy of that "common" variant as well recently. Kuddy also tells me he "only" sold his 9.8 copy for $3000 once to "only" one interested buyer, so I'm sure he will be interested to know that in Bizarro world that wasn't a "real" sale indicative of anything either (sorry GPA, and, you know, The Market, but what do you know?, we have "real" experts here who know better than you ).

 

No one's said anything remotely close to what you're railing against, and it's getting a little silly.

 

Or maybe the boardie who just spent $1100 for a 9.6 UXM 510 partial sketch would like to hear over in that book's appreciation thread how the BIN price he just paid "doesn't count" either because he is just one buyer who could only buy his book once and there is no evidence that a second (or third or fourth or tenth or hundredth buyer) would have been willing to pay the same price for that "common as dirt" variant.

 

Or perhaps you can take some real initiative and start your own appreciation thread for the "falling out of the trees it's so prevalent" Campbell siege 3 variant and preemptively threadkrap it.

 

You err when you call correction of facts "threadkrap(ping)" and misrepresent what has been said.

 

As stated before, truly appreciating something means knowing all the facts about it, and not having misinformation floating around uncorrected.

 

Because until you've gone out and found a copy- any copy, for any price- of the 667 Dell'otto to post and share in this thread, I think we (the fans/owners/admirers of the book) have had enough of you here for now. Thank you.

 

You don't speak for anyone but yourself, Jay. So, there's no "we" involved. Everyone else is perfectly capable of speaking for themselves. And...again....appreciation comes in many forms, and is not limited to misinformation, no matter how enthusiastically it's presented.

 

On top of that...you assume that someone who disagrees with you is somehow not a "fan/owner/admirer" of the book. How do you know? Isn't it really, then, you making the speculative assumptions...?

 

 

Again, this isn't anything personal...but does Jaydogrules determine for everyone else what is, and what is not, "appreciation", and who can, and cannot, post in an appreciation thread...? That's a bit presumptuous, no...? That is basically a "what I collect rocks, what you collect sucks" attitude, isn't it...?

 

Back on topic (again)...

 

So are there really only 2 (or three) boardies who currently own this book ? I'm figuring at this point the winner of the auction of the one from Monday isn't a member of these boards. Or perhaps he/she is, but is turned off by the sh!tshow that a few have tried to turn this thread into and have been dissuaded from posting their enviable new acquisition. Hopefully not.

 

-J.

 

I think this has been a rather fine, illuminating discussion. It's all in the perspective. If you take the discussion personally, no doubt you will look at it as you have said, but there's really no need to. We can have a reasonable discussion about these things without devolving into hurt feelings.

 

I doubt that only 2 (or 3) board members currently own this book...not everyone, after all, feels the need to tell everyone what they have.

[Jaydogrules]

Though I do still err on the extreme low end of the estimates that I have seen for how many available copies that are out there (and I've seen some estimates below 200 even, all the way down to 150).

 

Well, that's for sure. You always err on the extreme low end based solely on the very limited information you have.

 

Unless it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

The utter dearth of them on the market, in collections, and on the census speaks for itself.

 

Well, you can see what is online, which is a significant part of the market. However, the CGC census still means very little to the hobby as a whole and I'm pretty sure you know as little as most and less than many about the contents of other people's collections.

 

RMA, is that you ?

 

Actually the census can be and is a useful tool for getting a litmus on a book's availability, particularly a very high dollar modern variant that has gone for large sums of money right out the gate, and was released in the Era of the Slab. Those are notorious slab bait, and everyone knows that. Whether you choose to openly agree with it or dispute it just for the sake of being your usual contrarian self is entirely irrelevant.

 

Right now there are only 19 slabs of this four year old book on the census- a book that has sold for $800++ and up raw on the rare occasion one surfaces, for years now. Even if that was just one-tenth of the population in circulation, that would still put the available amount at- wait for it- about 200.

 

-J.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I've always been one to caution others on assuming a comic is rare. With foreign comics, this caution is important unless you live in the country and know the true population of the comics you are seeking out. With regards to domestic comics, it is pretty well know that very few comics are truly rare. But that doesn't stop collectors from wanting the comics regardless. The comic landscape is littered with comics that are priced high for no reason other than a desire by collectors to own a copy, regardless of the rationale behind the purchase.

 

Absolutely! That's something I've said many times here and elsewhere. If you want it, and can afford it, that's all that matters.

 

Look at my posting history here and you'll see ample examples of my posting about inaccurate information about comics. But, I make my post, maybe hang around to ensure my point is understood, and then I move on. I doubt I've changed anyone's mind but I feel good that I did the best I could to give accurate information. Collectors, myself include, love to conjure up excuses to purchase (or sell) comics for more than they should. I understand that. I think Jaydog and others get your point(s), but it won't diminish their enthusiasm for this book.

 

And I don't expect it to, nor has that ever been my goal. Enthusiasm is a great thing.

 

As I've said many, many times before, one-person discussions don't really exist, and everyone should be free to discuss as much (or as little) as they would like, provided there are other people also willing (and there clearly have been.)

 

I disagree that Jaydog gets the point, as evidenced above.

 

Sorry for the long winded response.

 

Why? Why do you feel pressured into apologizing for typing 483 words, which is fewer words than the average newspaper article...? When did it become so scary to read anything but the most clipped of statements...?

 

I appreciate what you had to say, and red all of it, even if I don't agree with all of it. You had points to make, and you made them, in as many words as you thought it would take. No apologizing necessary.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Though I do still err on the extreme low end of the estimates that I have seen for how many available copies that are out there (and I've seen some estimates below 200 even, all the way down to 150).

 

Well, that's for sure. You always err on the extreme low end based solely on the very limited information you have.

 

Unless it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

The utter dearth of them on the market, in collections, and on the census speaks for itself.

 

Well, you can see what is online, which is a significant part of the market. However, the CGC census still means very little to the hobby as a whole and I'm pretty sure you know as little as most and less than many about the contents of other people's collections.

 

RMA, is that you ?

 

Actually the census can be and is a useful tool for getting a litmus on a book's availability, particularly a very high dollar modern variant that has gone for large sums of money right out the gate, and was released in the Era of the Slab. Those are notorious slab bait, and everyone knows that. Whether you choose to openly agree with it or dispute it just for the sake of being your usual contrarian self is entirely irrelevant.

 

Why do you need to make this personal, and make personal comments about people...? It's not necessary, Jay.

 

Right now there are only 19 slabs of this four year old book on the census- a book that has sold for $800++ and up raw on the rare occasion one surfaces, for years now. Even if that was just one-tenth of the population in circulation, that would still put the available amount at- wait for it- about 200.

 

-J.

 

 

Again...the census only tells part of the picture, and only very broadly at that. It would be a mistake to assume the census paints accurate pictures, especially of very limited books like ASM #667 D'O.

 

(We won't get into the fact that you argued the opposite re: ASM #301...that's for another thread.)

 

Example: you stated, quite famously, that there were probably only around 100 copies of the Sandman #8 variant still in existence.

 

You based that on the census count of 34 total copies.

 

However, there are now 46 copies on the census.

 

That's a whopping 35% increase in just the past year.

 

If I may borrow your logic....does that mean that there are about 460 copies of Sandman #8 variant in existence....?

 

 

[mschmidt]

RMA, Bababooey, jsilverjanet-

 

A B&W Mouse Guard just sold yesterday for over $1500. And not only were there "only" two bidders who participated in that auction, but two TOTAL bids placed.

 

Please take your circus over to their appreciation thread and lecture them on how that auction result is meaningless, how the creator of the book most definitely has several cases of the book sitting uncirculated in his garage, and how "pedestrian" the artwork is. And make sure you email the seller on ebay to tell him that it is only "imaginary, goodwill money" that he will be collecting and pocketing since "only" two people tried half heartedly to win his book. I'm sure he really wants to hear from you too.

 

In what universe does a mass-produced variant of some random ASM issue have anything to do with a self-published first issue of a very popular indie series?