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How much would this foxing effect grade?
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30 posts in this topic

18 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Can you tell me where I can read up on CGC's stance on foxing?  I've just bought a 9.0 graded and encapsulated by CGC in 2004.  It is noted to have "light foxing".  I'm curious to know if CGC's attitude toward foxing has toughened up in the last 15 years.  Thanks

I guess you didn't like my answer to you on the other thread where you asked the same question, HaHa ! The reason you are not getting straight up answers from us is CGC does not publish their stance = nothing for you to read up on. Also realize, the rules vary depending on the grade and other conditions of the book. The size, darkness, location of foxing may be treated differently from one book to another. Sorry but there are no firm answers or something to offer to read up on, especially when asking for differences from 15 years ago.    

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3 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I guess you didn't like my answer to you on the other thread where you asked the same question, HaHa ! The reason you are not getting straight up answers from us is CGC does not publish their stance = nothing for you to read up on. Also realize, the rules vary depending on the grade and other conditions of the book. The size, darkness, location of foxing may be treated differently from one book to another. Sorry but there are no firm answers or something to offer to read up on, especially when asking for differences from 15 years ago.    

No, I did like your answer. I’m not sure what the timing was, but I did a search on “foxing” and think I posed my question on a coupla different threads. 

I have big respect for you Bomber-Bob, and thank you for taking the time. 

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18 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Can you tell me where I can read up on CGC's stance on foxing?  I've just bought a 9.0 graded and encapsulated by CGC in 2004.  It is noted to have "light foxing".  I'm curious to know if CGC's attitude toward foxing has toughened up in the last 15 years.  Thanks

I think the general consensus is yes.  Depending.  They've tightened up in recent years on appearance related defects like shadows, foxing and semi-invisible fingerprints, which were always taken into account, only more so now.  In addition to bringing the hammer down on stains.

 

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26 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

No, I did like your answer. I’m not sure what the timing was, but I did a search on “foxing” and think I posed my question on a coupla different threads. 

I have big respect for you Bomber-Bob, and thank you for taking the time. 

No problem, just teasing. What's most important is answering your question. These are very old CGC comments about foxing. Are the comments still valid, were they ever accurate, who knows. Note the terms referenced , 'minor, slight, light'. In my opinion, these comments are vague and dependent on other conditions of the book. 

9.6 If the foxing is very minor.

9.4 If the foxing is very slight.

9.2 if the foxing is very light. 

9.0 if combined with other flaws.

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3 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

No problem, just teasing. What's most important is answering your question. These are very old CGC comments about foxing. Are the comments still valid, were they ever accurate, who knows. Note the terms referenced , 'minor, slight, light'. In my opinion, these comments are vague and dependent on other conditions of the book. 

9.6 If the foxing is very minor.

9.4 If the foxing is very slight.

9.2 if the foxing is very light. 

9.0 if combined with other flaws.

That’s what I was looking for. I’m surprised that a book could still get a 9.6 with any amount of foxing, given its propensity to spread. But at least at one point, that is how cgc apparently looked at it.  Maybe the logic was that as long as the book is properly stored, the foxing is unlikely to spread. I don’t know this to be true, and haven’t found reassurance anywhere that the foxing will stop advancing as long as the book is kept in the right environment. I simply speculate this may have been what cgc was thinking 

anyway, thank you!

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11 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

That’s what I was looking for. I’m surprised that a book could still get a 9.6 with any amount of foxing, given its propensity to spread. But at least at one point, that is how cgc apparently looked at it.  Maybe the logic was that as long as the book is properly stored, the foxing is unlikely to spread. I don’t know this to be true, and haven’t found reassurance anywhere that the foxing will stop advancing as long as the book is kept in the right environment. I simply speculate this may have been what cgc was thinking 

anyway, thank you!

Glad it helped. Years ago, you could call CGC and ask questions directly to the graders about your grade. This is long gone but the grader's were very informative and I learned a lot. Submissions weren't as hectic and demanding as now. I still have some personal references but I suspect many have changed since the early years.    

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On 10/8/2015 at 10:21 AM, divad said:

 

Foxing is a stain due to the presence of ferrrous (iron) particles in paper. It occurs over time under various environmental conditions. It does appear to be biologically sourced, but there is some disagreement as to whether the causal organism is a bacterium or a fungus (or both). It occurs throughout publishing history on all kinds of books, manuscripts, etc., incuding comic books. In comics, it more often occurs on cover stock than newsprint, but this may be due primarily to the obvious exposure of covers to air (oxidation). It is a restoration nightmare.

Out of curiosity, does archival acid-removal paper act to simply mitigate the spread of discoloration, or can it actually have a mild reversal effect?  My guess is that it would not be a pro-active enough effort of restoration and would simply slow/eliminate the process over time?

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On 6/14/2019 at 11:04 PM, divad said:

No, I can't. I suspect it's tightened up over the years, if only because they are grading more and more newer books that have none. I would have the book re-holdered if that's what you're thinking, not re-graded.

IIRC...when Borock was the head grader at CGC, the stance on foxing wasn’t as tight as it is today. Steve has a background in printing (his father I believe) and saw foxing as part of the process, the same as bindery defects. It wasn’t hit that hard until Haspel took over as the head grader. CGC’s stance has remained the same. 

Edited by joeypost
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10 hours ago, joeypost said:

IIRC...when Borock was the head grader at CGC, the stance on foxing wasn’t as tight as it is today. Steve has a background in printing (his father I believe) and saw foxing as part of the process, the same as bindery defects. It wasn’t hit that hard until Haspel took over as the head grader. CGC’s stance has remained the same. 

Indeed! And of course those of us familiar with SA and GA books saw quite a bit more of it. (thumbsu

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On 6/18/2019 at 3:48 PM, Slappy Jones said:

Out of curiosity, does archival acid-removal paper act to simply mitigate the spread of discoloration, or can it actually have a mild reversal effect?  My guess is that it would not be a pro-active enough effort of restoration and would simply slow/eliminate the process over time?

I would say no, as they are apples and oranges. The micro-chamber paper is used to primarily to mitigate the acid exchange between cover stock and newsprint. I don't believe it's applicable to foxing whatsoever.

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