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A few pics from NYCC

Started by AnkurJ,

159 posts in this topic

Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted
I'm sure there is. Just don't know enough about it really, and at this stage don't really want to. Museums not being too close and such.

Lazy man's answer right there :makepoint:

 

Just being practical. Only so many hours in the day and I already use too many of them for art.

Not all the interesting/cool non-illustrative art is in museums...but it's okay, MTG all the way ( :jokealert:)

 

 

lol touche

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Bronty

Bronty

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Peter, in fairness, his debate team skills are sharper than yours. You do tend, or at least in the posts I've read, to at times misinterpret, miscontrue, make assumptions. I can't argue with him there.

 

Doesn't mean your conclusion can't be right, but trying to follow the road there can be rocky to those of us with more of a linear thought process. No disrespect! Life is not about winning the debate - winning the debate rarely gets you jack. But his arguments are more polished than yours. Not necessarily right, but more polished and to people like he and I that do or did read over and edit important documents as part of our living these things leap off the page to us. (then again, for all I know, what you do for a living is the same way, I guess I shouldn't assume).

 

Anyways, he's not having trouble following what you are saying, trust me. Just taking issue with how you get from point A to B to C.

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Peter G

Peter G

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...But I never tells me exactly what he disagrees with that I post other than that he doesn't think I'm right. About what, I'm not exactly sure. He never tells me.

Sure I do. Every time. Lately your posts have been so full of hot air, I've had to break them down to address each section by section. You make fabulous leaps of logic (which is illogical, of course) and then -when called out on it- backpedal to something about not upacking the full idea, "that's what makes a market" and other trite observations. Disagreeing is one thing, I don't have a problem with that and I'm a very open-minded individual, always seeking other opinions to broaden my own perspective, etc. But what you do, I won't leave alone, it's sloppy at best.

 

From your recent:

 

Who here doesn't think comic art is art? You wrote "some"...okay...who???

 

Then you go on to make posit assumptions about people's (again, who -exactly, please?) "traditional ideas of art" What ideas are those? You already know not mine. I told you so. Who else, and what ideas? Please. I've not seen any of those posts here by others, that comic art isn't art because it's not part of some traditional idea. I think everybody here agrees comic art is art. It's the art world that isn't. Excepting Crumb, Chris Ware and some other more biographical type of storytelling, usually by a single writer/artist not the hodge-podge of corporate comic "production" we all know (and love) as the more common and popular the last hundred years (that you mark as the comics century of history, of appeal).

 

Finally you jump from that (above) to somehow those same people (who again??) not believing in million dollar comic art because they don't think it's fine art? Huh??? Big leap over a wide canyon there. $1m can happen this Heritage, and eveyr Heritage that follows, which would still neither make or break the thesis (or any arguments to the contrary) that comic art is art. Two different subjects.

 

Surely this rehash of what I already wrote, in greater (and excruciating detail) tells you what I have disagree with?

 

Your rehash above is a tortured analysis of what you deem to be my logic and a questioning of my motives and assumptions. Yet, you really never address the issue which seems to be the source of our contention. Namely, i had posited in a previous discussion that comic art may one day be worth tens of millions of dollars. YOU disagreed with me. YOU also exhibited certain biases about the way the art market works. To that end I began talking about the art market in a general sense. Then YOU criticized me for what you deemed illogic. As far as I can tell you disagree with my general proposition that comic art is very cheap right now. YOU disagree with my admitted speculative belief that comic art will go up in value ALOT from today's prices. YOU disagree on my thesis as to why comic art will continue to go up in value ALOT.

 

And then for some reason YOU have the habit of focusing on the most trivial minutiae that really is a distraction from the larger point. I don't want to rehash the idea of what is art or why I believe increased demand will flow into comic art, YOU disagree. I get it.

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Peter G

Peter G

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Britney,

 

In fairness, (your words not mine) vodou has argued nothing. His beliefs are illusory and vapid. He addresses nothing that I write. And he gets lost in trying to analyze my logic. It would be troubling except for that we have exchanged PMs and I can attest to him being a nice guy with some pretty good ideas sometimes. Regardless, I am confident that neither of us is taking this conversation too personally. We are both mature adults just trying to advance our opinions.

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vodou

vodou

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Peter there is no "my logic", "your logic", there's just logic. And the absence of logic. In part or full. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

I do not disagree with your big idea, I'm just not as certain as you are. And when you're tasked to provide some insight to what premises you've built your conclusion on...then I'm even less certain. But I don't know it all, do not pretend to or see the utility in doing so. Taking only your own counsel is the ultimate thinking inside the box. I love thinking outside the box, and (nod to Bronty) in non-linear terms too. That's where the opportunities lie. That's why we have the Special Olympics...because not everybody defines a marathon as requiring two legs to get those 26.2 miles done. And that's why I think comic art can do just fine without ever hanging in a MOMA (of any city) or the Louvre, the Guggenheim or even the Getty.

 

Tens of millions in 2015 purchasing power I have real difficulty seeing. But who knows? Not I. Not for sure. (I certainly never thought I'd see a $600k McSpidey cover. Hulk 180 final page, I'm actually less surprised by, fwiw.) I agree, if that's the case, then anything bought today will be worth some degree of that tremendous expansion (rising tide raises all boats) and so today's prices are a steal. But...if not, very dangerous to chase a 'chart' that's already gone exponential (in the short view 1975-2015, let's say). And I think that's the part you probably know but don't mention much, or at all.

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Peter G

Peter G

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Peter there is no "my logic", "your logic", there's just logic. And the absence of logic. In part or full. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

I do not disagree with your big idea, I'm just not as certain as you are. And when you're tasked to provide some insight to what premises you've built your conclusion on...then I'm even less certain. But I don't know it all, do not pretend to or see the utility in doing so. Taking only your own counsel is the ultimate thinking inside the box. I love thinking outside the box, and (nod to Bronty) in non-linear terms too. That's where the opportunities lie. That's why we have the Special Olympics...because not everybody defines a marathon as requiring two legs to get those 26.2 miles done. And that's why I think comic art can do just fine without ever hanging in a MOMA (of any city) or the Louvre, the Guggenheim or even the Getty.

 

Tens of millions in 2015 purchasing power I have real difficulty seeing. But who knows? Not I. Not for sure. (I certainly never thought I'd see a $600k McSpidey cover. Hulk 180 final page, I'm actually less surprised by, fwiw.) I agree, if that's the case, then anything bought today will be worth some degree of that tremendous expansion (rising tide raises all boats) and so today's prices are a steal. But...if not, very dangerous to chase a 'chart' that's already gone exponential (in the short view 1975-2015, let's say). And I think that's the part you probably know but don't mention much, or at all.

 

I never understand why everybody on these boards gets so obsessed with logic and rationality. It really does conversations a disservice. Of bourse there is no my logic or your logic.

I will just make 2 final points and then I think I am done if that's ok with you.

 

First, you are looking for some type of evidence or research analysis on an admittedly speculative investment. No amount of data is going to satisfy you if you don't see what I do when I look at the art. You are looking for evidence that doesn't exist. I can talk about increased demand and importance of this art until I'm blue in the face and it's not going to sway you. I get that.

 

Second, yes prices have gone up alot these past odd years but this stuff sat dormant for so so long. As I have noted in our private emails, I have been collecting since the 1980s, I have watched when everybody said this stuff was worthless or worth very little simply because there was no market and the overall demand didn't exist. An exponential increase in price as you say is a bit hyperbolic. The market was undeveloped for so long that it had and still has lots of ground to make up. The comic book market reaching millions for action 1 and also the detective 27 sale are also significant indicators of maturity for this hobby. But the hobby is still young. Now we are a pimply adolescent teenager. But still very young. This market is not the tired old man with little to no growth that you claim.

 

I

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vodou

vodou

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All good Peter. I'm already in comic and illustration art quite deep and I'm definitely less confident going forward paying 10-100x what I paid in the past for similar art. (I probably already have too much by any reasonable measure, save pure hoarding). So we'll see and it is nice being 'up' as much as I am already, but from here...who knows? It would be nice to ride the wave you're suggesting!

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suspense39

suspense39

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All good Peter. I'm already in comic and illustration art quite deep and I'm definitely less confident going forward paying 10-100x what I paid in the past for similar art. (I probably already have too much by any reasonable measure, save pure hoarding). So we'll see and it is nice being 'up' as much as I am already, but from here...who knows? It would be nice to ride the wave you're suggesting!

 

I too get a bit uneasy paying many times what I paid for similar art in the past.....I think that's why it going to take some new blood to move things up, people that are coming in now and are used to the prices things are now, and most likely if they go up from there they will feel the same way as we do, as they collect over a period of time.

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Bronty

Bronty

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At the last Comic Art Con - when inquiring about the price on a piece I was interested in - The response from the dealer was 6 . I honestly did not know if he meant six hundred or six thousand. Its the wild west out there for comic art !!!!!

 

thats awesome lol

 

My bet, six thousand lol

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Peter G

Peter G

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At the last Comic Art Con - when inquiring about the price on a piece I was interested in - The response from the dealer was 6 . I honestly did not know if he meant six hundred or six thousand. Its the wild west out there for comic art !!!!!

 

Yes, it's wild out there. Personally, I think when a dealer does that, they are sussing you out. It's a clever way to test and measure a persons reaction.

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suspense39

suspense39

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Ha! I had a similar thing happen to me my first time at comiccon, I asked Anthony how much for a Kirby Thor page, he said 12. So I looked at it for a bit and he asked , how much cash do you have, and I said I've got 900, he looked at me and said 12,000 then he kind of went on to something else......this was before I started collecting OA.

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Mercury8989-migration

Mercury8989-migration

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At the last Comic Art Con - when inquiring about the price on a piece I was interested in - The response from the dealer was 6 . I honestly did not know if he meant six hundred or six thousand. Its the wild west out there for comic art !!!!!

 

Yes, it's wild out there. Personally, I think when a dealer does that, they are sussing you out. It's a clever way to test and measure a persons reaction.

 

Rude. Id pull out 6 singles and embarrass them like Mel Gibson.

 

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