A few pics from NYCC

[delekkerste]

Apparently the X-Men #200 cover sold! As did the ASM Annual #11 (both Bechara). And Burkey confirmed to me that the Spectacular Spider-Man piece sold as well. So, at least one person(s) is paying these crazy prices.* :whatthe:

 

I bought six covers during the show - all personal favorites from the '80s, '90s and early '00s. By and large, they're not what the crowd is chasing, and I thought I got good or fair prices on all of them. But, yeah - I'm sure it's discouraging as hell for people to come into the hobby and see that a childhood favorite like What If? #1 or X-Men #200 is going to set them back enough to buy a nice BMW or a condo in Memphis, Tennessee (where rental yields are in the double-digits). My friend Hari was trying to argue that there's still art available for every budget, which is true, but it's getting harder to find anything that's truly a mainstream favorite for less than an arm and a leg. The comic book market may be going insane too, but at least there you can still buy a low-grade AF #15 (a best in class book) for $10-$15K or a New Mutants #98 9.8 for under a grand or a Walking Dead #1 9.8 for under two grand or a Hulk #181 9.6 for $7K or a 9.8 for low 5-figures (all books are best in class from their respective eras). What does even $10-$15K get you in OA these days among mainstream favorite material? No wonder I'm seeing so many comic book collectors' forays into OA end so abruptly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Deal details not verified by an independent third-party auditor.

[delekkerste]

Let's assume for argument's sake that this cover by Gil Kane sells for $150K. I don't know if that's high or low, but let's just say for fun, 'what if' John Romita Sr. illustrated this cover exactly the same image, size, condition, etc.

 

If the Kane sold for $150K, what would you expect the Romita Sr cover would sell for?

 

My guess is that this cover is so beloved, and will be so far above other Kane covers, that it wouldn't sell for much more, if at all, if Romita had drawn it.

 

I'd bet good money that this sells for more than $150K. Which, in a vacuum, may seem for a small art, Gil Kane-drawn cover that isn't GSXM #1 or XM #94 (or Tomb of Dracula #10 ) but I really think this one is going to do very well - classic drug issue, great image, Goblin on the cover, etc. This is one of those instances where the artist almost doesn't matter (kind of like Herb Trimpe drawing that Hulk #180 1st Wolvie page).

[malvin]

 

What does even $10-$15K get you in OA these days among mainstream favorite material? No wonder I'm seeing so many comic book collectors' forays into OA end so abruptly.

 

 

Ouch Gene!

 

I only ever spent $10K+ on one piece, and the only way I justified it was that it was worth way more

 

I have spent a lot in the several thousand range. You certainly have to spend to get grade A material, but I don't think you have to hit $10K for mainstream favourites if your tastes are wide ranging.

 

Malvin

 

[delekkerste]

I only ever spent $10K+ on one piece, and the only way I justified it was that it was worth way more

 

Well, who wouldn't have bought a BWS cover if they had seen it on eBay at half price.

 

 

I have spent a lot in the several thousand range. You certainly have to spend to get grade A material, but I don't think you have to hit $10K for mainstream favourites if your tastes are wide ranging.

 

Well, that's the thing - if your tastes are wide ranging. Nothing I bought at the show was over $5K...but, then again, I didn't buy any Byrne, Miller, Adams, Kirby, Ditko, etc. Maybe I could have bought a Richard Giordano cover for low $10Ks like my friend did, or maybe Jim Aparo (not even sure about that one, though), but for the truly desirable mainstream guys...better bring your financial planner if you want to make a deal these days.

 

And, a rising tide of craziness lifts all boats (at least in terms of asking prices). I see a lot of 2nd and 3rd-tier material getting optimistically priced at double where they should be because, hey, people are doubling the price on first-tier material as well. Maybe people think that low 5-figures for Al Milgrom will look cheap compared to mid-5 figures for John Romita Jr., while $65K for JRJR looks cheap next to 6-figure prices for classic Silver Age.

[Bronty]

Yeah it just doesn't work. What if 1 for 65 k is pretty well obscene

 

Spidey 98 will auction for way more than 100k IMO. That's just a ( conservative ) estimate

 

 

True.

 

There's a big difference between:

 

"Oh, man I REMEMBER THAT COVER!!!" <3

 

and

 

"Oh, yeah...I remember that cover."

 

 

One signifies the firm grasping of your 'Nostalgia Nuts'™, and the other is more passing familiarity and a...

 

Even if that cover hits someone's nostalgic g-spot, there are far less expensive ways to get off at a far more reasonable value.

 

Counsellor, you have an excellent turn of phrase

[mtlevy]

I agree on ASM 98, don't feel Romita would add much to the price - it is a key issue and well rendered as it is.

 

But do feel you can buy a lot of nice mainstream interior pages for under $10k...cover is another story.

[Bronty]

Especially since Kane was a better cover artist (ducks).

[delekkerste]

But do feel you can buy a lot of nice mainstream interior pages for under $10k...cover is another story.

 

That is true - I collect mostly covers these days so don't look at interior pages as much. But, that said, there's a ton of interiors that are now being priced above $10K. And the ones that are still in the sub-$10K range are increasingly being stickered in the mid-to-high 4-figure range and look aggressively priced there.

 

Mind you, I am talking about dealer convention pricing when I talk about all of this. I think there are a lot more deals and realistic prices to be had at auction these days.

[Carlo M]

Just to be clear, did the UXM 200 cover sell for USD65K? And people were surprised about the 191 cover price a few weeks ago?

 

As I am on the subject, anybody knows what the ask was for J Lee's cover of Uncanny 269 (Rogue vs Ms Marvel...sort of...)?

 

Calro Michelini

[comix4fun]

I know he was asking 65k and now it's being reported as "sold".

 

"Sold" means many different things in this hobby.

 

If it means purchased at full cash price, well, I'd like to meet the buyer.

 

I've been in this hobby long enough to see thing "change hands" at numbers that indicate caution in instantly assuming it's to be taken at face value without more Information.

[Bronty]

took this pic yesterday at heritage booth

 

Only $100k

 

Let's assume for argument's sake that this cover by Gil Kane sells for $150K. I don't know if that's high or low, but let's just say for fun, 'what if' John Romita Sr. illustrated this cover exactly the same image, size, condition, etc.

 

If the Kane sold for $150K, what would you expect the Romita Sr cover would sell for?

 

 

The "What If" isn't a Romita sr. Cover . Also it's not from the ASM flagship title, which makes a difference in value across generations and eras and artists. And the what if is fun but it's not a "non comic code seal drug book, ASM cover."

 

Romita sr. doing a couple corrections and alterations makes this a Romita sr. cover like me buying seat covers means I built my car.

 

 

I think he is playing "what if" with the spidey 98 cover. Guess the price if romita instead of Kane.

[Carlo M]

Thanks for the clarification on the Uncanny 200 cover. I understand it is not possible to know what the final deal was. Still, it is an intersting reference point.

 

I slightly disagree that is impossible to find good interior art at reasonable - at least by current standards - some J Romita Cap is changing hands at reasonable prices these days, and so is some decent Byrne FF....Romita ASM and Byrne Uncanny....well that is a different story I guess....

[delekkerste]

Just to be clear, did the UXM 200 cover sell for USD65K? And people were surprised about the 191 cover price a few weeks ago?

 

As I am on the subject, anybody knows what the ask was for J Lee's cover of Uncanny 269 (Rogue vs Ms Marvel...sort of...)?

 

Calro Michelini

 

I think the price on both UXM covers (#191 and #200) was . I'm not sure which price was more egregious, though - $65K is pretty nuts, but I at least like the #200 cover whereas I never rated the #191 very highly. So, yeah, still surprised about the #191 result and don't think it's suddenly cheap just because the #200 (allegedly) sold for $65K. Anyone who believes that probably also argues regularly that, because the ASM #328 cover sold for $657K, such-and-such should sell for at least that much, if not more. :doh:

 

Don't hold me to it, but I think I overheard that the Lee cover was $65K. Which led multiple people to comment half-jokingly that "$65K is the new $20K". I also heard that the hashtag #BecharaPricing has been trending on Twitter this weekend.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*No, it hasn't.

[Verbow]

Let's assume for argument's sake that this cover by Gil Kane sells for $150K. I don't know if that's high or low, but let's just say for fun, 'what if' John Romita Sr. illustrated this cover exactly the same image, size, condition, etc.

 

If the Kane sold for $150K, what would you expect the Romita Sr cover would sell for?

 

My guess is that this cover is so beloved, and will be so far above other Kane covers, that it wouldn't sell for much more, if at all, if Romita had drawn it.

 

I'd bet good money that this sells for more than $150K. Which, in a vacuum, may seem for a small art, Gil Kane-drawn cover that isn't GSXM #1 or XM #94 (or Tomb of Dracula #10 ) but I really think this one is going to do very well - classic drug issue, great image, Goblin on the cover, etc. This is one of those instances where the artist almost doesn't matter (kind of like Herb Trimpe drawing that Hulk #180 1st Wolvie page).

 

Agree 100%. I laughed aloud when I saw the 100k estimate and as a collector who has focused largely on Romita Spidey, the lack of Romita or the fact that this is a Kane cover doesn't influence it's desirability IMHO one way or the other. This cover just wreaks "Classic" - storyline, image content, villain, etc and as Gene previously mentioned, I think bidding will be a real bloodbath on this one.

[Bronty]

Apparently the X-Men #200 cover sold! As did the ASM Annual #11 (both Bechara). And Burkey confirmed to me that the Spectacular Spider-Man piece sold as well. So, at least one person(s) is paying these crazy prices.* :whatthe:

 

I bought six covers during the show - all personal favorites from the '80s, '90s and early '00s. By and large, they're not what the crowd is chasing, and I thought I got good or fair prices on all of them. But, yeah - I'm sure it's discouraging as hell for people to come into the hobby and see that a childhood favorite like What If? #1 or X-Men #200 is going to set them back enough to buy a nice BMW or a condo in Memphis, Tennessee (where rental yields are in the double-digits). My friend Hari was trying to argue that there's still art available for every budget, which is true, but it's getting harder to find anything that's truly a mainstream favorite for less than an arm and a leg. The comic book market may be going insane too, but at least there you can still buy a low-grade AF #15 (a best in class book) for $10-$15K or a New Mutants #98 9.8 for under a grand or a Walking Dead #1 9.8 for under two grand or a Hulk #181 9.6 for $7K or a 9.8 for low 5-figures (all books are best in class from their respective eras). What does even $10-$15K get you in OA these days among mainstream favorite material? No wonder I'm seeing so many comic book collectors' forays into OA end so abruptly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Deal details not verified by an independent third-party auditor.

 

Whadja buy?

 

As for abrupt ends to collecting careers I think price is only one reason that happens. You don't know if you'll like it til you try it, and a percentage won't like it. For me personally, I found the biggest mental shift in making the switch from mass market to one of a kind stuff was that art collecting happens at a very different rhythm and pace. I was - much more than I had previously realized - used to making small but steady purchases... always adding a little something here or there. You just can't take that same approach with art. I found I had to take spending to zero much more often and also ramp it up to levels I would have been previously uncomfortable with much more often because the right opportunities only come along so often. I used to be a snacker and became someone who learned to fast and binge. I don't think that's an easy change for some people. When you start treating seven course meals like snacks you get into trouble pretty quickly

[comix4fun]

. Ok. I thought he was talking about the what if ? cover. My bad.

 

I agree with gene the asm 98 value is mostly in the image in this case and what the book is over it being necessarily Kane or Romita.

[NelsonAI]

 

The Buscema FF cover was priced at 75K. Big John deserves a 10K premium over all those other guys, right?

 

Cheers!

N.

 

 

 

[glendgold]

New 3-tier pricing system:

 

Anything worth having: You can't afford it

Cool stuff that you won't get a high-five on for owning: Reasonable + or -

Everything else: Free

 

G

 

 

[bluechip]

any price on the What If # 1 ?

 

$65K will get you either the What If? #1, X-Men #200 or Crisis #10 covers.

 

65k for WhatIf # 1 aint bad

 

Are we both talking American Dollars?

 

It's a cobbled together cover with about 7 credits isn't it? The big name in that list (Romita) only did alterations. It's also small art.

 

Maybe if this were ALL Romita it would command a premium, but small art completed by "M. Hands"? I can't see it.

 

Feels 'Triple-y' as to where it would actually sell.

 

The selling point is that its the OA to "What If" # 1

 

I liken it to a Warhol piece done by "the Factory"

 

Warhol sometimes only had minimal involvement in a piece but its still considered a Warhol

 

 

And in this case the members of the "factory" aren't anonymous assistants.

 

Also, is it also a good piece of comic art? Seems like it is. A first issue of a known and well-remembered series, with good images and top tier characters, and with Romita in charge.

 

Sometimes Kirby did only layouts while a penciller finished the drawings and an inker came aboard after that. There may not be any actual graphite left on the page put there by Kirby but it's called a Kirby 'cause it's known the lesser artists followed his lead. Other times it's clear that lesser artists started a piece and the big name came in to finish it up (Kirby and romita both did that a lot). In those cases it generally is (or should be) the big name is often considered the main artist because they had the biggest influence on the image.

 

You could say that's about the owner wanting to put the biggest name first. But at Marvel the biggest names were less likely to be altered, either out of respect. And in other cases the big name let someone else start a piece of art but the big name was in charge of the final image. (not unlike Warhol in his factory)

[Peter G]

any price on the What If # 1 ?

 

$65K will get you either the What If? #1, X-Men #200 or Crisis #10 covers.

 

65k for WhatIf # 1 aint bad

 

Are we both talking American Dollars?

 

It's a cobbled together cover with about 7 credits isn't it? The big name in that list (Romita) only did alterations. It's also small art.

 

Maybe if this were ALL Romita it would command a premium, but small art completed by "M. Hands"? I can't see it.

 

Feels 'Triple-y' as to where it would actually sell.

 

The selling point is that its the OA to "What If" # 1

 

I liken it to a Warhol piece done by "the Factory"

 

Warhol sometimes only had minimal involvement in a piece but its still considered a Warhol

 

 

And in this case the members of the "factory" aren't anonymous assistants.

 

Also, is it also a good piece of comic art? Seems like it is. A first issue of a known and well-remembered series, with good images and top tier characters, and with Romita in charge.

 

Sometimes Kirby did only layouts but the penciller and inker were lesser artists but it's called a Kirby 'cause it's known the lesser artists followed his lead. Other times I've seen a piece that Kirby pencilled, following some other artist's pose or complete, image and some other person inked it, yet it's also considered that Kirby is the main artist.

 

You could say that's about the owner wanting to put the biggest name first. But at Marvel the biggest names were less likely to be altered, either out of respect. And in other cases the big name let someone else start a piece of art but the big name was in charge of the final image. (not unlike Warhol in his factory)

 

+1

 

A brilliant cover from the Marvel "house of ideas"