ft88 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I'd take these off. Batman #404 Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8 Suicide Squad #1 Superman #75 Uncanny X-Men #221 X-Factor #6 Some are important like Crisis 7 and Superman 75 but not worth a damn. Batman 404 is a great book but not quite defining and DK 1 represents. Xmen 221 that's a reach. Xfactor 6 has fallen way off, can't we find some thing better. And Suicide Squad 1 is also a reach. Not even a copper first app of the team that isn't even in the movie. I'd rather Team up 141 over Secret Wars 8 New Mutants 1 or Rocket Raccoon LS 1 over Suicide Squad 1 Star Wars 42 Omega Men 3 Batman 386 Swamp Thing 49 New Mutants Ann 2 To name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 Thanks for these suggestions! This year's list has already gone in, but I think you'll appreciate some of the changes. I always do a "reveal" here as the new Guide launches. One of the interesting things for me has been to see how a "second tier" of books like Suicide Squad #1, Omega Men #3 and Secret Wars #8 kind of come in and out of fashion. They don't necessarily make the cut in certain years, but then they'll bounce back. This is different from a book like X-Factor #6 which clearly is seen by the market as less important than it was before, making way for rising stars that have never been on the list before. In the end, it's all more art than science, though. divad and F For Fake 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Brock said: This is different from a book like X-Factor #6 which clearly is seen by the market as less important than it was before Or maybe X-Factor just had huge sales at the start of the series and there are a ton of copies out there. How many other books on the list have numbers that are even close? Apocalypse is easily a top CA villain. Old Fashion PB and J 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn1709 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 What about Sandman #4? And Sandman #8 editorial and #18 blue ink are also very valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 On 3/2/2019 at 5:01 PM, Spawn1709 said: What about Sandman #4? And Sandman #8 editorial and #18 blue ink are also very valuable. Call me old-school (Ok, you're OLD-SCHOOL!) but I don't think we should consider manufacturing errors for the list. waaaghboss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn1709 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, divad said: Call me old-school (Ok, you're OLD-SCHOOL!) but I don't think we should consider manufacturing errors for the list. Fair enough But I still think Sandman #4 could be included on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPark Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 I don't think Secret Wars 8 is near the bottom of that list. It may have come out later than 252, 141 and 90 but it contains the origin of the costume and is both iconic and valuable. Legion HQ, waaaghboss and Catwomancomics 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion HQ Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 21 hours ago, PeterPark said: I don't think Secret Wars 8 is near the bottom of that list. It may have come out later than 252, 141 and 90 but it contains the origin of the costume and is both iconic and valuable. Agreed. It's THE iconic issue of THE most iconic Marvel series of the Copper Age. ASM 252 and Secret Wars 8 are by far the two pre-Venom black costume issues to own. Nothing else comes close. waaaghboss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 12 hours ago, Legion HQ said: Agreed. It's THE iconic issue of THE most iconic Marvel series of the Copper Age. ASM 252 and Secret Wars 8 are by far the two pre-Venom black costume issues to own. Nothing else comes close. I dunno. It really wasn't a big deal until Venom became popular around 1993. Before then, it was just a regular book in a regular series. I didn't buy any more copies of that book that I did any others of the series, and since the series wasn't that big a deal, I didn't bother much with it. It's lack of popularity is one of the reasons why Overstreet kept calling it the "first appearance of the black costume" in error for so long. Granted, it's now become much more popular, but I really think that for something to be "iconic", it really had to have been immensely popular upon arrival...and Secret Wars was really just a marketing gimmick to sell toys. Popular, but not "set the world on fire" like, say, Dark Knight or even Crisis. And after it was all over, it definitely was forgotten. I had a dealer ask my opinion on the price of a VF/NM #1 at ECCC, and I said "ehhh...maybe $10-$15." He immediately turned to the prospective buyer and said "$30." I had to chuckle at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 I hope the buyer was out of earshot . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) On 3/29/2019 at 7:51 PM, Legion HQ said: On 3/28/2019 at 10:07 PM, PeterPark said: I don't think Secret Wars 8 is near the bottom of that list. It may have come out later than 252, 141 and 90 but it contains the origin of the costume and is both iconic and valuable. Agreed. It's THE iconic issue of THE most iconic Marvel series of the Copper Age. ASM 252 and Secret Wars 8 are by far the two pre-Venom black costume issues to own. Nothing else comes close. I agree with none of the opinions stated above. I do agree to the extent that which is factual. Edited March 31, 2019 by divad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseofComics.Com Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 7:51 PM, Legion HQ said: Agreed. It's THE iconic issue of THE most iconic Marvel series of the Copper Age. ASM 252 and Secret Wars 8 are by far the two pre-Venom black costume issues to own. Nothing else comes close. ASM 252 was an instant sellout like Thor 337 with people rushing to try to get newsstand copies to meet demand and front page news in CBG. Secret Wars 8 was popular from the absolute beginning. I want to say I was selling copies for $10-15 in the 80s. Now it's always a crazy good seller and I have trouble keeping it in stock. It does help when Mike Zeck is in town as you'll basically sell every copy you have on hand at the show. Legion HQ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, HouseofComics.Com said: ASM 252 was an instant sellout like Thor 337 with people rushing to try to get newsstand copies to meet demand and front page news in CBG. Secret Wars 8 was popular from the absolute beginning. I want to say I was selling copies for $10-15 in the 80s. Now it's always a crazy good seller and I have trouble keeping it in stock. It does help when Mike Zeck is in town as you'll basically sell every copy you have on hand at the show. Agreed - all facts. But iconic? ASM 252 is of course, but only because it's a cover homage to the most iconic cover of the Amazing Spider-Man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPark Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, divad said: Agreed - all facts. But iconic? ASM 252 is of course, but only because it's a cover homage to the most iconic cover of the Amazing Spider-Man! But it's an Amazing Fantasy cover swipe. ASM 252 is bigger than SW 8 but SW 8 is still bigger than MTU 141 and SS 90. Legion HQ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) Duh . . . Seriously, none of them approach big, and certainly none of them approach iconic. Period. Edited March 31, 2019 by divad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsLegion Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 On 12/10/2018 at 8:51 PM, Brock said: Hello all - It's that time of year, as I call on all boardies to help me put together an annual "crowd-sourced" list of the Top 50 Copper Age keys for the annual Overstreet Price Guide. What are the key books of this era? What books need to be added based on this year’s market – and which books from previous years get the boot? For this list, we're working from a (rough) 1982 to 1992 timeline here. Last year's list (which appears on p. 117 of the Guide) included the following books: Albedo #2 Amazing Spider-Man #238, #252, #298, #300, #316 Archie's Girls Betty and Veronica #320 Batman #357, #404, #428 Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1 Batman: The Killing Joke Bone #1 Caliber Presents #1 Comico Primer #2 Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 The Crow #1 Daredevil #181 DC Comics Presents #47 Evil Ernie #1 G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1, #21 Harbinger #1 Incredible Hulk #271, #340 Marvel Graphic Novel #4 Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8 Miracleman #15 New Mutants #87, #98 Punisher (limited series) #1 Sandman #1, #8 Spectacular Spider-Man #64 Silver Surfer #34 Spawn #1 Suicide Squad #1 Superman #75 Swamp Thing #21, #37 Tales of the New Teen Titans #44 Thor #337 Transformers #1 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 Uncanny X-Men #221, #266 Warrior (UK Magazine) #1 Watchmen #1 Wolverine (limited series) #1 X-Factor #6 What are your thoughts and suggestions? As always, while I'll use some "editorial oversight", I promise to do my best to reflect the consensus of the discussion... I'm sorry, but I take issue with about 1/4 of this list. I guess I don't follow what defines these as "keys" That they are most oft books to be bought raw, slabbed, cracked, pressed, re-slabbed, bought, then flipped? just call it that then... what should be on the list: Avengers Annual #10 X-Men/Teen Titans The New Mutants Marvel Graphic Novel #5 Wolverine v2 #1 New Mutants Annual #2 (1986) Omega Men #3 (1983) Thor #411 what' doesn't belong: Evil Ernie Harbinger Uncanny X-Men #221 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 12 hours ago, MYNAMEISLEGION said: what should be on the list: Avengers Annual #10 X-Men/Teen Titans The New Mutants Marvel Graphic Novel #5 Wolverine v2 #1 New Mutants Annual #2 (1986) Omega Men #3 (1983) Thor #411 what' doesn't belong: Evil Ernie Harbinger Uncanny X-Men #221 So you complain about some books on that list not being key (which is a legitimate gripe) and then suggest multiple non-keys (which is )? Wolverine 1 and X-Men/Teen Titans are nothing and definitely don't belong. Avengers Annual 10 doesn't qualify based on the 1982 start year. New Mutants is MGN 4 which is on the list. Then you try to kick keys off the list instead of some of the non-keys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsLegion Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Lazyboy said: So you complain about some books on that list not being key (which is a legitimate gripe) and then suggest multiple non-keys (which is )? Wolverine 1 and X-Men/Teen Titans are nothing and definitely don't belong. Avengers Annual 10 doesn't qualify based on the 1982 start year. New Mutants is MGN 4 which is on the list. Then you try to kick keys off the list instead of some of the non-keys? The NM Graphics Novel was a typo from a list I copied and pasted from- so in my head I thought the X-Men MGN was on the list, but NM wasn't - I never really keep those straight in my head, and shame on me since i even own a page of MGN #5 (X-Men) so I have no excuse! X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills pg.57 (Marvel GN #5,1982) that 1982-1992 definition is kinda squishy, but eh ok. Avengers annual 10 was late 1981, but you're right. I think Wolverine v2 #1 is legit, it's not a first appearance, but neither is the LS #1. Neither is Punisher LS #1. X-Men Teen TItans- Dammit it just should be! But I will not back down on Evil Ernie, or any Image or Valiant book- I don't give a damn what year they came out. They are quintessentially 90's books. They are literally the DEATH of the copper age, and the Harbinger (see what I did there ) of the near death of comics period after the mid-90's crash. jjonahjameson11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 1 hour ago, MYNAMEISLEGION said: that 1982-1992 definition is kinda squishy, but eh ok. I agree, but that's what we're working with here despite that leaving some major Copper keys ineligible for inclusion. I also agree that I would never put any Valiant or Image key on a Copper list, but again, I didn't choose the eligibility dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaaghboss Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 (edited) On 3/29/2019 at 7:51 PM, Legion HQ said: Agreed. It's THE iconic issue of THE most iconic Marvel series of the Copper Age. ASM 252 and Secret Wars 8 are by far the two pre-Venom black costume issues to own. Nothing else comes close. Pretty much. People trying to push the marvel team up book or spectacular spidey is just... strange. Ive had both of those books since the early 90's, and never realized (or cared) that they predated secret wars 8. Edited April 1, 2019 by waaaghboss Legion HQ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
