JUSTICE LEAGUE: PART ONE (11/17/17) 5 5

[drotto]

28 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

You could be right.

Oh. Sorry. No teddy bear award this time around.

I will give you Deadshot maybe has potential.  Harley is possibly the most bankable villain in pop culture period at this point.  Handle her character right with Margo Robbie and you can basically print money.

 

I forget her name from MOS is ok but somewhat forgettable. Not sure how she fits in longer term with Zod dead. Deathstrike is a wildcard at this point. One cutsceen and rumors are not enough to go on.

Edited November 22, 2017 by drotto

[drotto]

3 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

What’s Marvel come up with other than Loki?

Not much, but Loki has been a true breakout.  He has almost run his course at this point however.  Thanos could end up very generic, and most of the Marvel villains have been.  I do think Hela has potential, but mainly on the strength of Kate Blanchet as oppsed to being original.

[jsilverjanet]

I think the issue is across the board. It’s hard to write a good villain.

[darkstar]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

You could be right.

Oh. Sorry. No teddy bear award this time around.

I'm talking about main villains. You know that can actually carry a movie and give it weight? Harley Quinn and Deadshot weren't villains in Suicide Squad. Also I wasn't aware Deathstroke had already starred in a DC film. 

[Straw-Man]

54 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

What’s Marvel come up with other than Loki?

yellowjacket was badass; for a bug. 

[darkstar]

54 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

What’s Marvel come up with other than Loki?

Marvel hasn't done anything with villains either. They are still pushing Loki, which is hilarious. They pissed away Crossbones and Ultron. The Mandarin, who should've served as a bin Laden analog and made an impact in every Marvel movie, fell victim to the greatest misstep in comic book movies other than DC going all in with Snyder. Eventually the creators of these properties are going to realize that if you don't have a villain worth his salt, you don't have a film. 

[darkstar]

9 minutes ago, Straw-Man said:

yellowjacket was badass; for a bug. 

Corey Stoll as Yellowjacket was one of the most successful attempts at a villain in a comic book movie.

[Bosco685]

35 minutes ago, darkstar said:

I'm talking about main villains. You know that can actually carry a movie and give it weight? Harley Quinn and Deadshot weren't villains in Suicide Squad. Also I wasn't aware Deathstroke had already starred in a DC film. 

But that's what some folks forgot in SS. Those two are killers, put away by Batman. Without them, and that entire movie has nothing else. Though finally Jai Courtney was worth his salary.

Deathstroke makes only the briefest of appearances. Yet fanboys went nuts. Solid actor selection, and a character that can play off many heroes.

Faora held her own against Superman, and delivered some fantastic lines and scenes. Sure, a backup character. But stronger than most we have seen from DC or Marvel as a female role.

Unfortunately, not all are a Loki or Joker. Heck, even with Iron Man III we could have had another super one with the Mandarin. But he became a running joke. What BS!

[Chip Cataldo]

I *really* hope Thanos delivers the goods.

[Bosco685]

5 minutes ago, Chip Cataldo said:

I *really* hope Thanos delivers the goods.

After all this buildup, he better. I want to see so much more of his power.

[Bosco685]

Edited November 23, 2017 by Bosco685
Chart corrected to reflect Variety budget research

[Bosco685]

Variety may have figured out the budget.

Can Warner Bros.’ Expensive, Long-Awaited ‘Justice League’ Deliver the Hit That DC Needs?

Quote

The costly superhero team adventure carries a production budget of more than $250 million, according to several sources, and with it, the hope that DC’s interconnected cinematic universe of comic book heroes and villains can deliver huge audiences around the globe.

Quote

This past summer, Warner brought in Joss Whedon, known for his wry writing style, to take on “Justice League” after director Zack Snyder stepped away in May to deal with the death of his daughter. Re-shoots, made complicated by the competing schedules of all the actors, lasted two months and cost $25 million. Roven, however, said the film will be an amalgam of Snyder and Whedon’s styles.

So no less than $275M. Though with the 'more than', this could be slightly more.

[prez]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

After all this buildup, he better. I want to see so much more of his power.

Very unlikely that Fiege will drop the ball on Thanos.

I agree, writing an engaging villian is very hard. Imagine if Heath Ledger didn't do drugs - we're probably talking about how Marvel is playing catch up with DC

[Drummy]

Just as a side note to follow part of this conversation, I don't think either company is 'winning' the villain equation by any stretch of the imagination.  As much as Marvel's villains have been pedestrian, DC's have been equally bad.  Whiplash and the Enchantress, Malkieth and Doomsday, Kingsley's Mandarin and Eisenberg's Luthor -- all disappointing IMO, either in terms of story or acting or simply how they're used in the movie.  Steppenwolf seems equally lame, with the added insult of poor CGI at times.

Best villains?  Ledger's Joker hands down (not in the DCEU, but he sets the bar).  Hiddleston's Loki is very, very good.  I thought Sebastian Stan's Winter Soldier in Cap 2 was also kickass great, and Michael Shannon's Zod rounds out the top group.  (Faora and Deathstroke had/have potential, but the villain has to carry the film to some extent, and neither are in that league).  No one else has risen above either cartoonish or merely solid/serviceable.

I do have hopes for Thanos, if only because Markus and McFeely are writing a -script that focuses on him as a main character.  We will see his persona, his arc, and a story behind his menace.  Fingers crossed.

Dan

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Variety may have figured out the budget.

Can Warner Bros.’ Expensive, Long-Awaited ‘Justice League’ Deliver the Hit That DC Needs?

So no less than $275M. Though with the 'more than', this could be slightly more.

Why would you cite $275M or slightly more, when the vast majority of articles cite $300M?

In particular, the Variety article you cite that lists the $250M budget for principal photography came out six days ago.

More recent articles in Variety (from four days ago and two days ago) cite $300M total.

$300M was also cited by Deadline, Collider (actually noted as "north of $300M, est. $450 with marketing costs added), Forbes, etc. -- all of which were published more recently than the Variety piece that notes just $250M before re-shoots.

[roulette44]

Saw it again today and liked it just as much (maybe more, picking up more of the detail).   It's wall to wall entertainment AFAIC!

Another theater packed full of happy customers - with multiple rounds of clapping.

I understand some of the feedback i've seen here (too much to cram in, CGI missed some things), but pure hate and negativity towards it....can't follow!!

For the DCEU, i hope it makes a comeback at the Box Office, so many more good movies to make!

 

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

Why would you cite $275M or slightly more, when the vast majority of articles cite $300M?

In particular, the Variety article you cite that lists the $250M budget for principal photography came out six days ago.

More recent articles in Variety (from four days ago and two days ago) cite $300M total.

$300M was also cited by Deadline, Collider (actually noted as "north of $300M, est. $450 with marketing costs added), Forbes, etc. -- all of which were published more recently than the Variety piece that notes just $250M before re-shoots.

Yes the vast general consensus is $300MM.

Let's at least pretend to keep the conversation and analytics honest.  

-J.

[Gatsby77]

Here's a projected profit/loss for Justice League from two days ago, from Forbes' Rob Cain:

His creds? He's a "former studio executive and current film finance consultant and producer." 

Forbes: Warner Bros. Faces A Possible $50M to $100M Loss on 'Justice League'

It's an extensive analysis, but he presumes the costs of:

• $300 million for producing the movie
• $150 million for marketing
• $60 million for global home entertainment costs
• $20 million for talent residuals and "off-the-tops" (release-related expenses)
• $20 million in interest expense and
• $50 milion for talent participation to the director, producers, stars, and others.

That comes out to $600 million total.

Then there's an additional 12% or so cost of capital over a few years which gets us to the widely-reported & assumed $700 milion break-even, even including off-sets from marketing partners that subsidized the marketing.

And here's a chart on how the projected ROI compares to other recent comic book films, in which Justice League ranks 20th out of 20:

Edited November 23, 2017 by Gatsby77

[rjrjr]

4 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Here's a projected profit/loss for Justice League from two days ago, from Forbes' Rob Cain:

His creds? He's a "former studio executive and current film finance consultant and producer." 

Forbes: Warner Bros. Faces A Possible $50M to $100M Loss on 'Justice League'

It's an extensive analysis, but he presumes the costs of:

• $300 million for producing the movie
• $150 million for marketing
• $60 million for global home entertainment costs
• $20 million for talent residuals and "off-the-tops" (release-related expenses)
• $20 million in interest expense and
• $50 milion for talent participation to the director, producers, stars, and others.

That comes out to $600 million total.

Then there's an additional 12% or so cost of capital over a few years which gets us to the widely-reported & assumed $700 milion break-even, even including off-sets from marketing partners that subsidized the marketing.

And here's a chart on how the projected ROI compares to other recent comic book films, in which Justice League ranks 20th out of 20:

Wonder Woman was more profitable than Spider-Man: Homecoming. 

Interesting list and not at all close to what I've seen talked about here on these boards.

[Bosco685]

9 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Why would you cite $275M or slightly more, when the vast majority of articles cite $300M?

In particular, the Variety article you cite that lists the $250M budget for principal photography came out six days ago.

More recent articles in Variety (from four days ago and two days ago) cite $300M total.

$300M was also cited by Deadline, Collider (actually noted as "north of $300M, est. $450 with marketing costs added), Forbes, etc. -- all of which were published more recently than the Variety piece that notes just $250M before re-shoots.

Like what happened with Batman v Superman early on where a publication noted it costs WB $300M to make, and other publications ran with it, there is a chance the same is happening here.

But now here is Variety identifying not only what the production budget was before the reshoots. It actually was able to verify the reshoot cost, which has been rumored to be anywhere from $15M to $50M. Turns out it was $25M. And are other article writers giving this credence? I believe you call this writer "your man" when he writes things you appreciate. He published this 2 days ago.

FORBES.COM: How Rotten Tomatoes Screwed Over 'Justice League'

Quote

As a result, the last thing that many general audiences and would-be consumers read about the film, the main story in the lead up Zack Snyder and Joss Whedon’s $250 million+ comic book superhero movie’s opening day, was that the film’s reviews weren’t being made available on Rotten Tomatoes, with a common line being that Warner Bros. and/or Time Warner was essentially suppressing negative reviews (reviews that were available all over the web).

Now why would Scott Mendelson note a '$250M comic book superhero movie' when so many sites are quoting the rumor it is really $300M? Most probably because there is questioning and doubt.

7 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yes the vast general consensus is $300MM.

Let's at least pretend to keep the conversation and analytics honest.  

-J.

Good point, which is why after catching these two credible sources stating something less - and one very much respected by Gatsby - best-case I went with this lowest number. Appreciate the recognition on the honesty.

Once one of the movie analytic sites confirms the final number, we'll all be better informed.