JUSTICE LEAGUE: PART ONE (11/17/17) 5 5

[Gatsby77]

Forbes review is up from Mark Hughes.

He predicts $120M domestic opening and a global box office tally of ~$900M.

Seems about right to me.

On the one hand, it's got pretty much clear sailing for four weeks until Star Wars opens; on the other, if the reviews really are that bad, we could be looking at BvS-level drop-offs after a strong opening weekend.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2017/11/15/review-justice-league-successfully-delivers-fun-and-heroism-audiences-want/#34cc05eb1e27

[ComicConnoisseur]

44 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Some of the reviews I've read are ok, but some (particularly by high-profile outlets) are downright brutal.

I stand by my 40-55% prediction.

Yep, exactly. Some have been downright brutal,hence my justify embargo remark. The big boy reviewers for the big papers are not as kind as Twitter so it seems. 

I notice MetricCritic got this at 51 which means Rotten Tomatoes might be lower unfortunately.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[Comicopolis]

17 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Forbes review is up from Mark Hughes.

He predicts $120M domestic opening and a global box office tally of ~$900M.

Seems about right to me.

On the one hand, it's got pretty much clear sailing for four weeks until Star Wars opens; on the other, if the reviews really are that bad, we could be looking at BvS-level drop-offs after a strong opening weekend.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2017/11/15/review-justice-league-successfully-delivers-fun-and-heroism-audiences-want/#34cc05eb1e27

I hope the movie is shorter and more entertaining than that review.

[ComicConnoisseur]

23 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Forbes review is up from Mark Hughes.

He predicts $120M domestic opening and a global box office tally of ~$900M.

Seems about right to me.

On the one hand, it's got pretty much clear sailing for four weeks until Star Wars opens; on the other, if the reviews really are that bad, we could be looking at BvS-level drop-offs after a strong opening weekend.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2017/11/15/review-justice-league-successfully-delivers-fun-and-heroism-audiences-want/#34cc05eb1e27

That's what concerns me. It looks like a 50 rating across the board as some like it, and some don't. It`'s not a universal homerun like Deadpool,Logan and Thor:Ragnorak it seems. Still too early to tell though.

Edited November 15, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[jsilverjanet]

I read some of the reviews. It's incredible how critical they are of DC yet time after time Marvel/Disney gets a pass.

[jsilverjanet]

Especially some of the hyperbole used  - "super hero embarrasment" telegraph, "big ugly mess" - vanity fair, "beyond saving" - collider.

That's the part that irks me, it comes across as everyone who didn't like it, has to one up one another to get that click.

[Bosco685]

39 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Forbes review is up from Mark Hughes.

He predicts $120M domestic opening and a global box office tally of ~$900M.

Seems about right to me.

On the one hand, it's got pretty much clear sailing for four weeks until Star Wars opens; on the other, if the reviews really are that bad, we could be looking at BvS-level drop-offs after a strong opening weekend.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2017/11/15/review-justice-league-successfully-delivers-fun-and-heroism-audiences-want/#34cc05eb1e27

Quote

While it's not likely to score the same level of praise and audience love Wonder Woman enjoyed earlier this year, there's no doubt Justice League is headed for higher audience scores and more sustained, stronger weekly holds compared to Batman v Superman. And with audiences still basking in the afterglow of Thor: Ragnarok, the upbeat sentiment toward that film plus the overall positive reception of all superhero releases this year could be a factor in Justice League'sfavor as well.

 

I would guess it earns an A- Cinemascore from mainstream audiences, and that the press will respond positively to the fact the film largely addresses the primary complaints and concerns about Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad, while overcoming much advance negative press coverage and concerns about production, to deliver a thoroughly enjoyable superhero adventure that has much more than works than doesn't.

If the CinemaScore on this ends up a B+ or A- yet the critics give it lower scores leading to a 50-60 on RT, the message could be interpreted the latter was being vindictive due to the extended embargo plus any perceived issues they have with Zack Snyder and WB.

[Gatsby77]

Yeah - It's the level of negativity that's concerning.

Whereas with BvS, reviews seemed to be balanced but just this side of negative (say...rating it a 40-50%, but which still counted as negative for RT) here, some folks are just trashing it.

The Chicago Tribune, for example, gave it 1.5 stars.

Vanity Fair trashed it.

Even Bleeding Cool News (who are our people) called it mediocre.

[Bosco685]

11 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

Especially some of the hyperbole used  - "super hero embarrasment" telegraph, "big ugly mess" - vanity fair, "beyond saving" - collider.

That's the part that irks me, it comes across as everyone who didn't like it, has to one up one another to get that click.

I read the first Collider non-spoiler review the other day, and was not surprised at all that he trashed it. But to read it was so unentertaining and unredeemable...

[Bosco685]

Yet after all the social media and videos where we can see responses from people that saw this, they made it clear it was not a perfect movie yet fun, entertaining and great to see the interaction between all the characters.

I think one critic said nobody stood out in this movie. Like they wrote this before the movie even hit the street. Yet clearly the majority seeing this movie stated Ezra Miller clearly stood out, with Jason Momoa and Gal Gadot right behind.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Bosco685

[Gatsby77]

17 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

I read some of the reviews. It's incredible how critical they are of DC yet time after time Marvel/Disney gets a pass.

This is BS.

Wonder Woman got great reviews because it was a great movie. BvS and Suicide Squad were not.

Again, for me it comes down to the story. Can it pass the test of being a decent film if you took out the superheroes?

Wonder Woman could remove the god elements, and it would still have worked as a decent war/espionage thriller. Ditto Winter Soldier -- what made it great it was that it was a post-9/11 Fear-the-Patriot-Act spy thriller, it *also* happened to be a great Captain America movie.

See also The Dark Knight -- Nolan made a superb crime thriller that just also happened to feature Batman & the Joker.

 

Not everyone has an agenda.

[drotto]

15 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

I read some of the reviews. It's incredible how critical they are of DC yet time after time Marvel/Disney gets a pass.

I can understand you frustration at what you are calling critical bias.  Personally I could not get through BvS, was board watching MOS, kinda liked SS, and loved WW. But there is something deeper going on here than Disney paying off critics, and I can not get into the critics minds now have any privy to what is happening behind the scenes.  Remember Disney just majorly pissed off the critics and Thor was still given great reviews. Plus WW is the best reviewed superhero movie of the year and one of the highest of all time, so its not like it DC can't get good reviews.

 

Again, all my opinion, I think one of two things is happening here.  First is that MOS, BvS, and SS to a lessor extent were all Zack Snyder or heavily influenced by him.  I think it may be more of a Snyder bias rather than a DC bias. Most of his films before these DCEU movies were not well received or got very mixed reviews like Watchman and Sucker Punch.  With Marvel they shuffle the creative teams with almost every film. Yes Feige oversees everything and is the mastermind, but he does not seem to have been so influential about the overall tone like Snyder has been early on in the DCEU.  Second, you opinions just plain do not line up with the mainstream critics, and that is fine.  The critics like the Marvel movies better it seems regardless of what may or may not be happening behind the scenes. Marvel has hit on a formula that works when it comes to reviews, DC has not 

[Bosco685]

3 minutes ago, drotto said:

I can understand you frustration at what you are calling critical bias.  Personally I could not get through BvS, was board watching MOS, kinda liked SS, and loved WW. But there is something deeper going on here than Disney paying off critics, and I can not get into the critics minds now have any privy to what is happening behind the scenes.  Remember Disney just majorly pissed off the critics and Thor was still given great reviews. Plus WW is the best reviewed superhero movie of the year and one of the highest of all time, so its not like it DC can't get good reviews.

 

Again, all my opinion, I think one of two things is happening here.  First is that MOS, BvS, and SS to a lessor extent were all Zack Snyder or heavily influenced by him.  I think it may be more of a Snyder bias rather than a DC bias. Most of his films before these DCEU movies were not well received or got very mixed reviews like Watchman and Sucker Punch.  With Marvel they shuffle the creative teams with almost every film. Yes Feige oversees everything and is the mastermind, but he does not seem to have been so influential about the overall tone like Snyder has been early on in the DCEU.  Second, you opinions just plain do not line up with the mainstream critics, and that is fine.  The critics like the Marvel movies better it seems regardless of what may or may not be happening behind the scenes. Marvel has hit on a formula that works when it comes to reviews, DC has not 

One concern I had was once we were getting close to release, WB had Zack Snyder posting more about the film and not Joss Whedon. I had a feeling when that happened, critics would target this as a Snyder production. Even after Whedon touched it up.

Now as far as your comments on being bored with MOS, I respect it is your opinion. But with Faora and Superman fighting it out, then Zod and Superman fighting it out, if that was boring give me more boring.

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 hour ago, jsilverjanet said:

Especially some of the hyperbole used  - "super hero embarrasment" telegraph, "big ugly mess" - vanity fair, "beyond saving" - collider.

That's the part that irks me, it comes across as everyone who didn't like it, has to one up one another to get that click.

Those were the first things that popped up on my tablet this morning, and I said this might be why Rotten Tomatoes is holding the score back and WB had the embargo. It looks like they are both trying to cover up something no matter what spin we put on it.  They should have had no embargo and release the Rotten Tomatoes score early. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[ComicConnoisseur]

36 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

This is BS.

Wonder Woman got great reviews because it was a great movie. BvS and Suicide Squad were not.

Again, for me it comes down to the story. Can it pass the test of being a decent film if you took out the superheroes?

Wonder Woman could remove the god elements, and it would still have worked as a decent war/espionage thriller. Ditto Winter Soldier -- what made it great it was that it was a post-9/11 Fear-the-Patriot-Act spy thriller, it *also* happened to be a great Captain America movie.

See also The Dark Knight -- Nolan made a superb crime thriller that just also happened to feature Batman & the Joker.

 

Not everyone has an agenda.

Agreed,plus Logan and Deadpool got great reviews and they were by Fox. So it isn't just a Marvel bias.

I think basically Snyder, and maybe Affleck have to go to change the perception of these DC Movies. 

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[drotto]

2 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Those were the first things that popped up on my tablet this morning, and I said this might be why Rotten Tomatoes is holding the score back and WB had the embargo. It looks like they are both trying to cover up something no matter what spin we put on it.  They shoud had no embargo and release the Rotten Tomatoes score early. 

I have been reading the reviews, as opposed to the tweets that came out earlier in the week, the more mainstream critics seem to be fairly negative. I know people like to point out the YouTube reviewers and comic sites, who are generally much more knowledgeable about comics, that have seemed to like the film, but general audiences due not look at these reviews.  Comics fans will read multiple reviews, and seek out more than one review before we making a decision.  We will also either intentionally or unintentionally, look for critics and reviews that reinforce our opinions and preconceptions. The less comic crazed general audience will read the one or two critics they trust, almost always the mainstream ones, and rarely will go further. They will make the decision based on that, and will not research and obsess about the films like we do.  So unfortunately, these reviews will negatively impact the movie.

[Chip Cataldo]

1 hour ago, jsilverjanet said:

I read some of the reviews. It's incredible how critical they are of DC yet time after time Marvel/Disney gets a pass.

Substitute "PGX" for DC and "CGC" for Marvel. Couldn't it just be a better product scenario? 

I enjoyed MOS and have rewatched it several times. The extended cut of BvS was MUCH better than the theatrical cut, though Luthor is still cringe-worthy. Suicide Squad flat-out sucked. Wonder Woman was beyond amazing. 

Marvel has just been better overall. More consistency across the board. 

[paperheart]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Some of the reviews I've read are ok, but some (particularly by high-profile outlets) are downright brutal.

I stand by my 40-55% prediction.

congrats, currently 36% if you use RT thumbs up or down on 25 reviews on Metacritic.    i'm sticking w/ my estimate of $900MM WW due to:  4 weeks when the only other big draw will be Coco and shorter run time will allow for an extra showing per day.

Edited November 15, 2017 by paperheart

[ComicConnoisseur]

2 hours ago, Chip Cataldo said:

Substitute "PGX" for DC and "CGC" for Marvel. Couldn't it just be a better product scenario? 

I enjoyed MOS and have rewatched it several times. The extended cut of BvS was MUCH better than the theatrical cut, though Luthor is still cringe-worthy. Suicide Squad flat-out sucked. Wonder Woman was beyond amazing. 

Marvel has just been better overall. More consistency across the board. 

They just seem more likeable. Compare the modern movie versions of Thor and Iron Man to the modern movie versions of  Superman and Batman as an example.  Now if DC had Christopher Reeve as Superman and Micheal Keaton as Batman things would be so much different. The two new guys that replaced them are just alright, and that don't cut it when you are going against the Downey Iron Man  and Hemsworth Thor.

Edited November 15, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[Broke as a Joke]

Real critics are destroying this movie.  These Snyder DC movies are comparable to Transformers Bay movies.