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New podcast/video from Felix Comic Art (UPDATED 1/3/17!)
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1,647 posts in this topic

A few random observations (which I've noted in the past, just repeating here for anyone new):

-- Con sketch/commission market has always looked healthy to me since I've been in the hobby. Even during the economic downturn, every Artists Alley at the shows I attended were packed. Lists filled up at ever increasing rates. This surprised me as I assumed this would be the group whose disposable income would get hit hardest. Maybe it did, but it didn't matter...everyone still wanted their sketches. And it's continued to present day. We fill up every list for every artist.

-- I have considered sketches/commissions to be a major entry point to the hobby. Becoming a rep just reaffirms that belief. I've had many, many customers who start off getting commissions from me, who then move on to published pieces.

-- There is new money at all levels of the hobby. Yes, in the vast majority of cases, the major pieces still end up with the usual suspects. But the known BSDs aren't buying everything. In fact, many of them are selling to this new money.

-- New money at that level, from what I've seen, is the same as the established demographic, so long term, same issues exist.

-- There is new money in modern art, as well. Unlike new money in vintage art, modern art new money skews younger. A lot younger. Also, within this group are women and international buyers. I've sent art all over the world, since I started doing this. In the last month, Russia, Africa, Brazil, Middle East, off the top of my head.

-- I don't know how much of this modern crowd will move on to vintage art, whether due to financial ability, or even simply interest. So again, long term for the vintage market, same issues still exist, unfortunately.

To sum up, I believe that so long comics are a thing, there will be some audience, to whatever degree, for original art. That just means that if there are new GREEN LANTERN comics coming out, there will be some readers who will be interested in that art. It does not mean, though, that any of them will pay half a million dollars for GL #76.

 

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9 hours ago, vodou said:

This goes back to a previous discussion - how are ongoing and continuous near top and topping, not to mention higher high final numbers being funded?

1. old comic art money being rotated out and right back in (no net new money in)

2. comic collectors selling down that stuff and rotating into comic art (no net new money in, I'd argue though some would disagree)

3. newly minted collectors coming from the outside with deep pockets and expensive tastes

IIRC you lean toward #3 being the predominant force in setting prices, while I think it's mostly #1 and #2, with #3 being a minority (and not 49% either!) but still in there.

 

7 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I'd say #2 is definitely new  money in the hobby. Because that's basically me. I wasn't an OA collector (although I had ONE piece I bought many years ago), until a couple of years ago. But I was a comics guy. I now only buy new comics because I am interesting in modern OA, and want to see all the new arts and artists, and enjoy the books.

My whole argument about this hobby is that Gene (and others) are absolutely right about the larger demographic trends. But, this hobby is so small that it only takes a few new big hitters to keep prices propped up. Think of it like Boxing. The overall audience for boxing has dramatically declined. Baseball too. Yet, they keep paying larger and larger prizes, or salaries, and baseball teams become more and more valuable. For baeball, there are only so many major league teams. It only takes a few who want to buy one to keep prices propped up.

In case it wasn't clear, let me rephrase: my definition of new money is money that wasn't raised by selling one inflated asset to buy another. New money is new money to not just this hobby (comic art) but all hobbies...so taxable income, an inheritance, investment sale (Schedule D stuff), things like that.

That's why I don't think dumping all your comics to buy art, especially if they're all CGC 9.8 examples, is new money!

The death throes of one hobby giving fuel to the bubble of another isn't growth or anything approaching healthy and something that's long-range sustainable and predictable.

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In case it wasn't clear, let me rephrase: my definition of new money is money that wasn't raised by selling one inflated asset to buy another. New money is new money to not just this hobby (comic art) but all hobbies...so taxable income, an inheritance, investment sale (Schedule D stuff), things like that.

That's why I don't think dumping all your comics to buy art, especially if they're all CGC 9.8 examples, is new money!

The death throes of one hobby giving fuel to the bubble of another isn't growth or anything approaching healthy and something that's long-range sustainable and predictable.

 

-I think your point was clear. Let me give my response this way - even though I sell some stuff to help fund purchases, most of the funds necessarily need to be new money.  Most collectors I meet like to hold on to what they have.  That means one needs to spend new money as the old money is tied up in the existing collection (comics, art, toys,etc ..). 

 

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Happy Holidays from Felix Comic Art! Which means it’s time for our December episode!
 
 
It’s a two parter this month, with Part 1 being a roundtable from Rose City Comic Con 2017. Joining me is recurring guest Andy Robbins, along with returning guests, artists Nick Pitarra and Daniel Warren Johnson. We recap topics from previous episodes, as well as discuss current events in the hobby. And we also reveal the story behind the stolen David Mazzucchelli BORN AGAIN art from the David Mandel episode last year. You don’t want to miss this! This one is, as Nick Pitarra calls it, a spicy episode.
 
Part 2, then, features a visit with David Mandel, and his reaction to the resolution of his BORN AGAIN art saga. We also talk about a variety of other topics, including his thoughts on the explosive George Perez market, sketchbook commissions, and more. Please note, part 2 is an exclusive for our VIP listeners who have been kind enough to leave a review for us on iTunes. If you’ve done so already, check your e-mail for the invite link. Everyone else, leave a review so you don’t miss out on future exclusive content!
 
Sign up for our mailing list at felixcomicart.com. Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Support the show by leaving a rating/review on iTunes. Thanks and enjoy the show!

 
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2 hours ago, Nexus said:
Happy Holidays from Felix Comic Art! Which means it’s time for our December episode!
 
 
It’s a two parter this month, with Part 1 being a roundtable from Rose City Comic Con 2017. Joining me is recurring guest Andy Robbins, along with returning guests, artists Nick Pitarra and Daniel Warren Johnson. We recap topics from previous episodes, as well as discuss current events in the hobby. And we also reveal the story behind the stolen David Mazzucchelli BORN AGAIN art from the David Mandel episode last year. You don’t want to miss this! This one is, as Nick Pitarra calls it, a spicy episode.
 
Part 2, then, features a visit with David Mandel, and his reaction to the resolution of his BORN AGAIN art saga. We also talk about a variety of other topics, including his thoughts on the explosive George Perez market, sketchbook commissions, and more. Please note, part 2 is an exclusive for our VIP listeners who have been kind enough to leave a review for us on iTunes. If you’ve done so already, check your e-mail for the invite link. Everyone else, leave a review so you don’t miss out on future exclusive content!
 
Sign up for our mailing list at felixcomicart.com. Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Support the show by leaving a rating/review on iTunes. Thanks and enjoy the show!

 

Another fun listen Felix.  While not relevant to the more important stuff about what to do with deals that involve stolen art, I'm wondering if the now completed sale of the Electra Saga cover make everyone involved feel whole again?  Have you talked to Dave or Andy since the auction as an addendum?  And while not meaning to stir anything up, I thought the price realized on the Electra was a little light (28k), and I wonder if there's any second guessing going on from that angle.

Keep those pod casts coming!

Scott

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28 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Another fun listen Felix.  While not relevant to the more important stuff about what to do with deals that involve stolen art, I'm wondering if the now completed sale of the Electra Saga cover make everyone involved feel whole again?  Have you talked to Dave or Andy since the auction as an addendum?  And while not meaning to stir anything up, I thought the price realized on the Electra was a little light (28k), and I wonder if there's any second guessing going on from that angle.

Keep those pod casts coming!

Scott

I have talked to Andy since the auction. I'll let him talk about the result here if he wishes.

It actually finished at $22K, which is where I had it pegged. Those covers don't have the same cachet they once did, for a variety of reasons, so I wasn't surprised by the result. But it's a good Miller cover no matter what, and a grail for the buyer, so for him at least, it worked out very well!

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41 minutes ago, Nexus said:

I have talked to Andy since the auction. I'll let him talk about the result here if he wishes.

It actually finished at $22K, which is where I had it pegged. Those covers don't have the same cachet they once did, for a variety of reasons, so I wasn't surprised by the result. But it's a good Miller cover no matter what, and a grail for the buyer, so for him at least, it worked out very well!

Apologize for the misinformation on the Electra cover!  I hate putting out wrong information.  Having said that, and when discussing auction prices paid, don't we always include the buyers premium?  That's only number that ultimately matters (to me at least), not the hammer price.  So that said and for the record, the Electra closed at just over 26k with the BP.

And yes, I don't know the reasons why these Electra Saga covers are not as coveted, but I kinda thought it was an A-list piece, and as we have recently established, A-list is gonna A-list.  Unless it doesn't.  hm

Scott

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2 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

Apologize for the misinformation on the Electra cover!  I hate putting out wrong information.  Having said that, and when discussing auction prices paid, don't we always include the buyers premium?  That's only number that ultimately matters (to me at least), not the hammer price.  So that said and for the record, the Electra closed at just over 26k with the BP.

And yes, I don't know the reasons why these Electra Saga covers are not as coveted, but I kinda thought it was an A-list piece, and as we have recently established, A-list is gonna A-list.  Unless it doesn't.  hm

Scott

You're right...I had $22K in my head, because that was the number that mattered most to Andy and Dave.

The auction was also the reason we sat on this episode for a few months. I didn't want the discussion to influence anyone, either way. I've found that people often choose to hear what they want to hear, so better for the auction to play out, first.

Personally, I've never considered any of the ELEKTRA SAGA covers to be A-list. They're fine, I'd totally be happy with one (for the right price)...but I don't place them in the upper-tier of Miller DD/Elektra pieces, either in terms of art or importance. Just my opinion. Seems like the market is coming to the same conclusion now, too. Which is only good news for anyone who wants one for their collection.

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24 minutes ago, Nexus said:

 

Personally, I've never considered any of the ELEKTRA SAGA covers to be A-list. They're fine, I'd totally be happy with one (for the right price)...but I don't place them in the upper-tier of Miller DD/Elektra pieces, either in terms of art or importance. Just my opinion. Seems like the market is coming to the same conclusion now, too. Which is only good news for anyone who wants one for their collection.

100%.   They are lovely, really lovely, but they just aren't on high profile books.   I'd rather have a few of the Elektra Assassin covers even though those are Sienk not Miller.   Just higher profile books.

Edited by Bronty
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Felix,

You should interview Andrew Farago of the Cartoon Art Museum. It would be interesting to hear stories about past comic art exhibits he had put together and the artists he had worked with. Also about the CAM art collection.

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Really interesting to hear Andy and David talk about the deal from two different perspectives. I can understand Andy's point of view on the cover, even though I have not had any art deals like that. Stolen art can be a very tricky subject. Andy is a great sport to talk about the original deal and how it evolved into recently putting it in the auction. 

When you talked to Andy about the deal with top piece of an B artist trading for a midrange piece of an A artist. For me when it comes to what I like and what I would trade away, the level of the artists doesn't come into play, nostalgia can trump even the highest ranking artist if the piece had great meaning to me.

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16 hours ago, Nexus said:

Personally, I've never considered any of the ELEKTRA SAGA covers to be A-list. They're fine, I'd totally be happy with one (for the right price)...but I don't place them in the upper-tier of Miller DD/Elektra pieces, either in terms of art or importance. Just my opinion. Seems like the market is coming to the same conclusion now, too. Which is only good news for anyone who wants one for their collection.

+1

It's not main run Daredevil, and Miller's Elektra Saga style already deviates from what was depicted in Daredevil just a couple of years prior.  Plus, this is where Miller's depictions of Elektra start to get more masculinized (not that she was portrayed before as gorgeous, but, definitely more traditionally feminine), which not everyone is keen on from what I've heard in conversation.  I'm not saying that she's got delts like @Doc Joe in these Elektra Saga covers, but, man, I'd probably want to test her for PEDs!  

That said, they are cool, and #4 is probably the best of the bunch.  

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6 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

BTW, Felix, is the link to the Mandel podcast working?  This is what I've gotten when I tried to open the link yesterday and today:

5a2aa54703472_Felixpodcast.thumb.PNG.61e554705f7f154a4ae24c990dc38af0.PNG

 

I listened to the Mandel episode without any problem. I believe you have to be logged into your YouTube account (or Google) to listen. Were you logged in? 

Felix, I really enjoyed this two-parter. I do like the mix of having a veteran collector, a mid-veteran, and a new collector at the round table. That mix brings in fresh perspectives and it shows that this is everyone's hobby. It's also cool to get the professional comic artists' perspective. 

Lastly, big thanks to Andy for being a good sport about telling his side of the story. I certainly understand his side (both sides actually). Like he said, in this hobby there's lot of good stories and one or two bad ones. 

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4 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

I listened to the Mandel episode without any problem. I believe you have to be logged into your YouTube account (or Google) to listen. Were you logged in? 

Yep, I'm logged in now (just double-checked to make sure) and it is not working.  Have tried like 10x between yesterday and today and keep getting the same error message. :sorry: 

Just logged out and back in and tried the link on two different browsers...no dice.  :cry: 

Edited by delekkerste
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22 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Yep, I'm logged in now (just double-checked to make sure) and it is not working.  Have tried like 10x between yesterday and today and keep getting the same error message. :sorry: 

Just logged out and back in and tried the link on two different browsers...no dice.  :cry: 

The "video" is working for me right now. I'm listening to it on my smart phone, straight up on the website, not the YouTube app. Maybe try a different device?

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1 minute ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

The "video" is working for me right now. I'm listening to it on my smart phone, straight up on the website, not the YouTube app. Maybe try a different device?

Nope, doesn't work on my phone either.  Tried it there yesterday first, and just tried it again.  Says the video is unavailable with the additional error message of "There was a problem with the network [400]".

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22 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Nope, doesn't work on my phone either.  Tried it there yesterday first, and just tried it again.  Says the video is unavailable with the additional error message of "There was a problem with the network [400]".

Clearly Felix specifically blocked your access Gene. Live with it.

lol

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6 minutes ago, vodou said:

Clearly Felix specifically blocked your access Gene. Live with it.

lol

Sends me the link and then blocks my access before I even open it? hm 

He is a vindictive one, that Felix! :p 

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24 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Sends me the link and then blocks my access before I even open it? hm 

He is a vindictive one, that Felix! :p 

It ain't me. You must have thought something not entirely positive about Google. They know all.

(Make sure you're logged in with your "tradergene" e-mail. That's the one that's registered as invited to view the video.)

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