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New podcast/video from Felix Comic Art (UPDATED 1/3/17!)
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1,647 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

but if the things that makes it a "Key" isn't represented on that particular page, like Blade in TOD#10 on a page that doesn't have Blade on it, does it REALLY merit a bump? It,s the same art team as the issue before, and the issue after. Then we are evaluating the art (emphasis on the word "value") for completely non-esthetic purposes.  On the flip side, does the first example of an artist work, or first for a comic or series get a bump if the comic itself doesn't command a premium?  Does the art market follow the little notes in Overstreet or the CGC Census.  A CGC 10.0 copy of Cowpoke Cousin #1 sells for 10,000K, so the interior art, including the page where Cowpoke Cousin meets his arch nemesis, Zane Greyhound suddenly go up 10x?

As I said, if the art is comparable to other art by the same artists for the same character for the same book and same storyline, then it gets a bump from being from a Key book.

Like, comparable Trimpe art from Hulk 182 is worth less than Trimpe art from Hulk 181.  They key word there is "comparable." Obviously the Wolvy & Hulk title page in 182 is better than the talking head military guy panel page in 181.

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8 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

The first page I bought from you was one by Ramon from Original Sins back when you got started. I so love it. The page is from a mini-series no one read, from an “event” no one cares about today, but I didn’t buy it for that—I bought because it’s Ramon Villalobos. I did crack up when you called him the “Mexican Jim Lee,” but to me he’s the kid from Stockton that made good.

I came across your site looking for Villalobos OA. It was through your site that artists like Garry Brown and Chris Mooneyham entered my radar. I bought a Mooneyham Predator page without ever having read the book it was from because it made such an impression on me. When I posted it on CAF I compared Chris to the megafamous Chris Warner (Go ahead and use that in your newsletter; the first one’s free). (As I begin to trade up, I always consider selling it, but I can’t bring myself to it.) Having followed your site since its nascent stage, I—and many others—watched your roster grow. All of them, in the beginning at least, were relatively unknowns. Soon enough, your clients’ art got better and better, catching the eye of more than just fanboys. Your clients (or bosses) went from working on small titles by Dark Horse and Valiant and Boom! maybe?, to steady work with the Big Two. It was and is an exciting time, to see it all happen, to see it unfold quickly there on the shelves of the LCS, to feel like you were part of all that, and buying a page from these guys was a way to be to feel connected to it, to give them a little support and encouragement, to feel like you got there before the bandwagon did, to show your buddies the original art and say, “You see this guy right here? He’s the next Frank Miller.”

 

(thumbsu

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7 hours ago, Reader said:

I regret to say I haven’t purchased anything from Felix yet. I’m waiting for that ideal Paul Pope cover or page. This from the guy that’s been trying to get out of comic art for the last year. I’ll just limit myself to three covers for 2018 and hopefully one of those comes from Felix.

You won't have much longer to wait! I'm getting a batch of new art soon from Paul! AKA the American Hugo Pratt!!

(The Shoveler: Cha-ching!)

(Rabid Ferret: Is the American Hugo Pratt equal to Amazon? Or Apple?)

(Kyle K...and just anyone else on my mailing list: Hugo who?)

lol

7 hours ago, Reader said:

Edit- Actually I did try to purchase a piece when the offerings of James Jean went live and literally must have been one second too late.

Fingers crossed, I'll also picking up some new stuff up from James this weekend.

Thanks Reader, I hope you see something you like

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2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Yep, when I read these comparisons of younger talent to older talent, I don't infer anything about the potential for comparable financial gain.  For those who say otherwise, isn't that pretty much implicitly assuming that talent cannot be compared across generations without a discussion of $$$?  I don't agree with that at all.  

As for the question of why make comparisons to well-known (re: expensive) works from the past as opposed to "wonderful but worthless books from the past"...well, how many examples of the latter are there where the collector base/marketplace has somehow overlooked supremely talented artists/works for 30-40 years?  Somehow I don't think saying that Tradd Moore's Venom #150 could be "this generation's Strikeforce: Morituri #20" quite does his work justice.  I think many/most would agree that Tradd is an exceptional talent, so, of course any comparison has to be with a high-profile, very well-regarded artist & book (whose value it is only normal the market will have realized).

In any case, anyone who's listened to Felix's podcasts will have heard the very consistent message he has delivered vis-a-vis speculating and investing in original comic book art loud and clear.   

Thank you, Gene!

Thinking more about what Kyle brought up:

1. I stand by what I wrote in my newsletters. Hyperbole? Maybe. Hot stock tip? HAHAHAHA!!

2. Watching how others imposed their own values on what I wrote was most revealing.

3. But most of all...I got my own troll!! That's practically a badge of honor around here!

I gotta work harder to catch up to you, though...you've had like 10 of them:P

 

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11 hours ago, RabidFerret said:
12 hours ago, Nexus said:

Like I just said earlier, people hear what they want to hear. They'll believe what they want to believe.

I hope you understand that this comment applies to you as well?

You may 'want to believe' that you're not advocating speculation, that your actions are altruistic and your intentions honorable, but it's still possible that your actions paint a different picture you are not seeing or understanding.

Quote

I believe I've presented some pretty compelling evidence supporting that today

I believe the compelling evidence of the day was provided by Kyle, with valid examples given of times art sales were pushed in a speculative fashion.

Heh. This is pretty funny, I'm no Felix/Nexus (Fexis/Nelux?) apologist but seriously - Felix advocates or doesn't whatever he does or doesn't. Objectively. This is by intention. If the (or 'some', a portion of the) audience receives that message an anything other that intended, it's either a failure on Felix's part to communicate effectively, a failure on the part of (some/all of) the audience to receive the message or a combination of both. I studied communications enough in college to pickup a minor - the onus to communicate effectively is on the 'transmitter' but that doesn't absolve the 'receiver' from all responsibility either. The onus on Felix is: (1) know your audience, and (2) tailor your message to that audience (without creating unnecessary confusion or loss of central meaning). He's already told us a significant portion of his audience AIN'T US. And he's further been very busy all over the place for quite a while (maybe as long as I can remember?) very much not advocating any specualtive/investment aspects of OA, from even before he had a vested interest in the matter. Sheesh. One thing I don't think he should be held responsible for (as an effective communicator) is knowing that some of his audience may turn out to be a bunch of csing crybabies lol

Kyle K posted an opinion and a personal ('his friend') anecdote, no more and no less. Hardly empirical.

Anyway, there is either a communication problem here or...you are calling Felix a liar (that his later stated intention here is seemingly at odds with his 'message', that his 'intention' is a 'whoops ya got me' cover-up.) So which is it?

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3 minutes ago, Nexus said:

Thank you, Gene!

Thinking more about what Kyle brought up:

1. I stand by what I wrote in my newsletters. Hyperbole? Maybe. Hot stock tip? HAHAHAHA!!

2. Watching how others imposed their own values on what I wrote was most revealing.

3. But most of all...I got my own troll!! That's practically a badge of honor around here!

I gotta work harder to catch up to you, though...you've had like 10 of them:P

 

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9 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

$45 in 9.8. 

I don’t know, Felix. I remember that time you called Ramon Villalobos “the Mexican Jim Lee” and then there was a run on your RV inventory. 

Are people really this stupid with their extra money earmarked toward speculative ROI? Talk about herd behavior (the very definition of buy high, sell higher). Ha ha. Fools and their money...but awesome for Ramon moving some back art that was otherwise gathering dust.

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3 hours ago, delekkerste said:

...when I read these comparisons of younger talent to older talent, I don't infer anything about the potential for comparable financial gain.  For those who say otherwise, isn't that pretty much implicitly assuming that talent cannot be compared across generations without a discussion of $$$?  I don't agree with that at all. 

Correct. The very definition of 'overlooked artist' s that his work is incredible but his market value (really more 'price' than value) doesn't reflect that. So, RabidFerret and *Spoon* Shoveler ( lol ) are you two ready to acknowledge that there is no such thing as overlooked artists or art? I'm waiting...

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7 minutes ago, vodou said:

Are people really this stupid with their extra money earmarked toward speculative ROI? Talk about herd behavior (the very definition of buy high, sell higher). Ha ha. Fools and their money...but awesome for Ramon moving some back art that was otherwise gathering dust.

Nah, it was a joke, an ironic statement. That was the point, that just because his rep compares him to Jim Lee, it doesn’t mean that it’s a hot stock tip that moves inventory. Ramon’s market has yet to catch up with, say, DWJ or Pitarra, so the dedicated few who buy Ramon’s art have to be buying for some reason other than speculation. I truly believe that the majority of Felix’s clientele who buy Ramon’s art with passion are buying DWJ with equal passion and not necessarily with future dollar signs in their eyeballs; therefore, the art sells itself, it doesn’t need a messenger. 

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1 minute ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Nah, it was a joke, an ironic statement. That was the point, that just because his rep compares him to Jim Lee, it doesn’t mean that it’s a hot stock tip that moves inventory. Ramon’s market has yet to catch up with, say, DWJ or Pitarra, so the dedicated few who buy Ramon’s art have to be buying for some reason other than speculation. I truly believe that the majority of Felix’s clientele who buy Ramon’s art with passion are buying DWJ with equal passion and not necessarily with future dollar signs in their eyeballs; therefore, the art sells itself, it doesn’t need a messenger. 

Question: to those that follow the re-sale of Extremity art (it came up recently), are they re-selling (as opposed to 'offered for') for significantly more? I've found that Felix has an uncanny sense of how to extract exactly the right price out of the market, leaving little back for quick speculation. I define quick as less than one year hold time, longer than that and one is more a fan that's selling that a flipper (though perhaps still a speculator in the sense of 'buy three, one to keep, two to sell later to pay for the one to keep' line of thinking).

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18 minutes ago, vodou said:

Question: to those that follow the re-sale of Extremity art (it came up recently), are they re-selling (as opposed to 'offered for') for significantly more? I've found that Felix has an uncanny sense of how to extract exactly the right price out of the market, leaving little back for quick speculation. I define quick as less than one year hold time, longer than that and one is more a fan that's selling that a flipper (though perhaps still a speculator in the sense of 'buy three, one to keep, two to sell later to pay for the one to keep' line of thinking).

I saw one collector put up an Extremity page for, probably, less than what Felix sold it for. But it wasn't a flip attempt, I think the guy just needed cash. I didn't see a lot of takers for it, and this was on a Facebook OA group.

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3 hours ago, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

There's an element of"wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more" to all this, that's getting beaten to death here, that Felix is not going to concede because he's hasn't been caught red handed (yet!) but the onus is the Shoveler to dig up a concrete example (see what I did there???)

Ha! Yes, I'm still not sure what the anger was about? That I'm overhyping the art to appeal to speculators? Because if that's the case, then Sean Murphy IS actually doing that, but The Shoveler conveniently sidesteps that issue...

Or is that I'm a hypocrite? That I say I'm anti-speculation, but I'm actually a speculator myself? Have these guys seen my collection? If not, my Lowry is a snapshot:

http://www.comicartfans.com/mylowry.asp?gsub=617

Let's take stock (haha!)...a '70s newspaper strip(!)...an unknown-to-Americans European panel page...a cover with an Asian protagonist...TWO commissions...

Yeah...so much speculation. I'm gonna be RIIIIICCCHHH! $$$$$$$!!!!!

lol

(Vote for my pieces.)

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21 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

5a58e8c290bde_yodaadvice.PNG.6a0a73094823df47cc76311875279b06.PNG

Right? It's like a board psychology test: What first comes to mind when you see BORN AGAIN and YEAR ONE?

The Shoveler: "Miller's most lucrative high-water marks."

Rabid Ferret: "Financially successful item from 30 years in the past."

Me: Respectively, the greatest DD story ever, and the greatest Batman origin story ever.

(shrug)

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15 minutes ago, Nexus said:

 Right? It's like a board psychology test: What first comes to mind when you see BORN AGAIN and YEAR ONE?

The Shoveler: "Miller's most lucrative high-water marks."

Rabid Ferret: "Financially successful item from 30 years in the past."

Me: Respectively, the greatest DD story ever, and the greatest Batman origin story ever.

(shrug)

Me: "Two story arcs that came out a couple of years after I stopped collecting comics back in the 1980's that I never (mostly) read, and have heard a lot of hype about. Although, I do remember liking this 'new' Mazzuchelli guy drawing Daredevil."

As an aside: I didn't read TDKR until 30+ years after it was initially published. And I didn't read watchmen until the movie was about to come out. I recently picked up some of the DD Born Again comics at a local shop, and plan on reading them eventually. Have read only a few pages of Batman Year One. So, I do NOT have the WM, TDKR, Born Again or Year One nostalgia a LOT of collectors have. Ditto for Kraven's Last Hunt. MISSED ALL OF IT the first go around. Rocketeer? American Flagg? Cerebus: High Society and Church and Stat (which, IMHO, are better than anything the Big Two put out in the 80's, Watchmen perhaps excepted)? Yeah. I'm in.

 

Edited by PhilipB2k17
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42 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Nah, it was a joke, an ironic statement. That was the point, that just because his rep compares him to Jim Lee, it doesn’t mean that it’s a hot stock tip that moves inventory. Ramon’s market has yet to catch up with, say, DWJ or Pitarra, so the dedicated few who buy Ramon’s art have to be buying for some reason other than speculation. I truly believe that the majority of Felix’s clientele who buy Ramon’s art with passion are buying DWJ with equal passion and not necessarily with future dollar signs in their eyeballs; therefore, the art sells itself, it doesn’t need a messenger. 

Jay, you've been following Felix Comic Art from the beginning (thank you!). If you haven't read all my e-mail newsletters, can I say you've at least read most of them? Overall, do you feel I encourage speculation?

I consider you to be a fairly typical buyer, in terms of profile: Someone who picks up a piece here or there that catches their eye. When they can afford it. I don't see speculation as a driver. I've already laid out why I don't believe speculation is why we've sold a lot of art to a lot of collectors. And here you are...pretty much what I was talking about. So thanks!

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1 hour ago, vodou said:

Question: to those that follow the re-sale of Extremity art (it came up recently), are they re-selling (as opposed to 'offered for') for significantly more? I've found that Felix has an uncanny sense of how to extract exactly the right price out of the market, leaving little back for quick speculation. I define quick as less than one year hold time, longer than that and one is more a fan that's selling that a flipper (though perhaps still a speculator in the sense of 'buy three, one to keep, two to sell later to pay for the one to keep' line of thinking).

THANK YOU. That's right, there's no meat on the bone for flipping, to start. Speculation almost always equals flipping in this hobby. Almost none of the art I'm selling is getting resold, let alone flipped. Now, if Rabid Ferret wants to move the goal posts ("they're not flippers, they're LONG-TERM speculators!")...well, I can't prove they're not. But none of this is what we most commonly recognize as buying for flipping or speculation. Not complete issues. Not commissions.

If someone's world view of this hobby is to see speculation and $$$ everywhere they look...that really isn't my problem.

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24 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Me: "Two story arcs that came out a couple of years after I stopped collecting comics back in the 1980's that I never (mostly) read, and have heard a lot of hype about. Although, I do remember liking this 'new' Mazzuchelli guy drawing Daredevil."

As an aside: I didn't read TDKR until 30+ years after it was initially published. And I didn't read watchmen until the movie was about to come out. I recently picked up some of the DD Born Again comics at a local shop, and plan on reading them eventually. Have read only a few pages of Batman Year One. So, I do NOT have the WM, TDKR, Born Again or Year One nostalgia a LOT of collectors have. Ditto for Kraven's Last Hunt. MISSED ALL OF IT the first go around. Rocketeer? American Flagg? Cerebus: High Society and Church and Stat (which, IMHO, are better than anything the Big Two put out in the 80's, Watchmen perhaps excepted)? Yeah. I'm in.

 

I'll give my old favorites a re-read every few years. I can be objective...not all of it holds up. But YEAR ONE and BORN AGAIN do. Recommend with no reservations.

I'll even admit that the ending of BA still chokes me up. :cry:

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