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New podcast/video from Felix Comic Art (UPDATED 1/3/17!)
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1,647 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Andahaion said:

I'm sorry you older guys on here think your hobby is imploding.

Some context that may help:

For many, many years, the predominant sentiment on these boards was to treat the hobby as a modern-day gold rush. Those OA bulls had the loudest voices. Gene was one of the very few to push back against that. Hard. (Both sides tended toward extremism back then, it's a lot more measured these days.)

It's not so much pessimism, or thinking that the hobby is imploding, than simply providing a counterpoint. It's easy to fall into the trap of believing that the market will only go up, since that's all it's ever done. There are still those who will push that angle. Just trying to give folks something more to consider.

Ironically, the two most vocal bulls back then (to my recollection), have largely cashed out since, and aren't around here much anymore. Meanwhile, Gene jumped in with both feet and grew his collection to insane proportions. So...take it all with a grain of salt. Not worth getting worked up over. Just enjoy the hobby to the extent of your own personal comfort level. Which, btw, is my collecting goal for 2019. As it's been for every year since I've been in this hobby.

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On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 6:11 PM, Nexus said:

Thanks!

And thanks to everyone for their support of the show.

Here's a piece I just posted to CAF that came courtesy of Todd from a while back. I'm a big Dan Clowes fan; the truly great pieces have been elusive. Which is OK, I've been very happy with the pages I've gotten (and actually prefer those to covers, in most cases). But no way could I pass this up. Priced for that one buyer...I guess that was me. Was worth it, though, now I can say I'm done. Thanks Todd.

 

danclowesimmortalsplashb.jpg

Is it a young Guy Verhofstadt (Belgian MEP)?

Sorry . . .  

 

guy-verhofstadt.jpg

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15 minutes ago, vodou said:

Okay but what do you think will happen to the prices of bad art (lacking a universally popular aesthetic), that which is beloved by a certain bandwidth of fans (aged 9-14 when the books came out) on a pure nostalgia basis but which has no other support outside that band?

Fortunately, all of us can see the answer to this question, now, and not via a crystal ball, but, the aluminosilicate screen...

The majority of what I would call 'bad' art, and their current 'bad' asking prices, can be viewed on your favorite original comic book art dealer(s) web sites...

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18 hours ago, vodou said:

Okay but what do you think will happen to the prices of bad art (lacking a universally popular aesthetic), that which is beloved by a certain bandwidth of fans (aged 9-14 when the books came out) on a pure nostalgia basis but which has no other support outside that band? We'll all have our own examples of "bad" but instead let's leave it vague and I'd like to know if you think non-nostalgic outside of comics altogether would have any interest in that material, at any price? Do I have this wrong, are you thinking there will be no "bad" comic art if the future you see and/or hope for? This btw is not a poke-jab but speaks instead to the possibility of certain comic oa being regarded the way fine art has, sort of, accepted self-taught, naive, Sunday painter, folk and other "lacking a universally popular aesthetic" categories.

Good morning, Vodou.  I did not intend to give the impression that I think there is no "bad" art, or that there wouldn't be in the future.  In fact I think quite the opposite.  I'd say the vast majority of stories/art out there are average at best (the same in the fine art world where its really the top 1% of the 1% that mislead people into thinking there is money everywhere).  In your example, I'd expect the value to not be there after nostalgia runs its course.  But, in my mind that's miles away from BWS being worth $100 (and I recognize that was hyperbole to prove a point), and where I also take great exception to the thought that young collectors cannot get into BWS (again just as an example, as there are many similarly situated artists one could use here).  We're going to have art history classes in this stuff.  Museums are opening and high dollar auction results are attracting attention (I'm a good example of that).  Plus, I just believe in this stuff.  I believe in art and the expression, creativity, and impact the medium has had and will continue to have.

Grandma Moses comes to my mind, but I cannot think of an OA equivalent off the top of my head.  I'd suspect we don't know the OA Grandma Moses yet.

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1 hour ago, Andahaion said:

I'd suspect we don't know the OA Grandma Moses yet

Oh please no.... :tonofbricks: Grandma Moses is a running joke in my house. My wife shudders every time we see one at an auction preview. "How is she famous? HOW?!" lol

I think the biggest takeaway from this recent episode, and one that seems to be in line with our own recent OA sales, is that there are many new buyers/collectors, but they SEEM to be 40+. They're reinvigorated by the films, digital availability, slab collecting, or just the headline-grabbing prices. I also think the all-OA-all-the-time availability of art has really picked up a lot of new eyes. But, by and large, they're not under 40.

I walked into a LCS while visiting family in another state last month and asked if they had any OA and there was a 5-minute discussion between multiple clerks about what I was even asking for. "Do you mean sketch covers?" They didn't even know one could buy OA. Have they never even walked into an Artist Alley?

For purposes of demographic research, I'm going to admit that as much as I know about comic art and illustration art and even 19th and 20th century salon and realism, I had never heard of Master Race before the auction. :sorry:

I find it interesting that generic 70s Marvel covers were called out. I've said in the past that I think Bronze will be the first to fall off, and I've thought interiors would go first. But maybe they are still close enough to their floor. Maybe the covers have farther to fall.

Btw, Gene needs to record some audio books -- "Baby, go to sleep" or something...

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3 hours ago, chromium said:

I'm pretty sure Felix used an audio filter on Gene's voice, I've spoken with Gene and he doesn't have that deep Barry White-like vocal timbre in real life :shy:

 

10 minutes ago, BCarter27 said:

Btw, Gene needs to record some audio books -- "Baby, go to sleep" or something...

lol 

I just listened to a snippet of the podcast...it sounds a bit different from my regular voice because it was recorded while I was recovering from a bad cold.  But, my regular speaking voice is pretty deep. :shy: 

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2 minutes ago, BCarter27 said:

Grandma Moses is a running joke in my house.

Ha.  My father in law is actively looking for one, and he comes to me for advice on his art purchases.  I try to keep it professional, but I've come close to looking him in the eye and saying, "please don't do this".  But to each their own.

I was in...Sacramento (I think) and had a similar experience with a local shop.  I asked if they had any "original art" and the clerk went upstairs and brought down a slabbed book with a sketch of Thanos by Ron Lim.  It was interesting to see how she reacted to it.  She held it like it was a newborn.  Then I told her I was looking for original published pages and she gave me a Ted Theodore Logan, "whoa".  I chuckled and assumed that was a 'no'. 

I think they're 40+ because that seems to be about the age when most folks can dole out a good amount of cash for artwork.  It doesn't mean they didn't want it, or didn't have an appreciation for it in their 20s.  I think there's a natural progression and education that takes place and will continue to take place going forward.  I look at vintage pages and know nothing about the story, but I see the image, see the artist and have a draw toward it.  There are many Silver and Bronze age artists whose work I've frankly never read, but who I'd love to own good examples from.  Hope that makes sense.

I didn't know about Master Race either, but learning is always ongoing.

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Regarding the Lucas Museum... interesting to note the reqs for curators in their job listings-

https://lucasmuseum.workable.com/j/E763AB8516

Quote
  • A Master’s degree from an accredited college or university with a degree in one of the following: Art History, Film, History, Anthropology, Museum Studies, or a closely related field is required, a PhD is preferred (a combination of Education and Experience are used to determine seniority, title, and level);
  • A minimum of two or more years of museum or arts management experience is required;
  • A track record of object-focused scholarly and curatorial accomplishments through publications, lectures, or exhibitions;

Who is this mythical person they are looking for? An art academic with DEEP knowledge of comic art? No, maybe a few of the CFA-ARP guys? Golden Age of illustration art? Again no, but I can think of a few dealers. Or latest trends in digital/game/movie/concept art? Maybe a commercial art director?

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2 minutes ago, BCarter27 said:

Regarding the Lucas Museum... interesting to note the reqs for curators in their job listings-

https://lucasmuseum.workable.com/j/E763AB8516

Who is this mythical person they are looking for? An art academic with DEEP knowledge of comic art? No, maybe a few of the CFA-ARP guys? Golden Age of illustration art? Again no, but I can think of a few dealers. Or latest trends in digital/game/movie/concept art? Maybe a commercial art director?

LOL. No sht. Sounds like they're looking to pry curators and Dept Heads away from other (higher profile and higher paying??) institutions...no learning on the job here thank you :)

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On 11/27/2018 at 2:13 PM, delekkerste said:

(thumbsu

No worries.  I feel that, if I didn't get a lot of push back from the under-40 set on this podcast, then I probably didn't get my point across. lol  I think some of what I said could be classified as "intentionally provocative". :devil:  And yet, while I was definitely painting with a broad brush, I think there's a lot of truth there as well.  I think it was meant to be less lamenting that a lot of art and artists are falling out of favor, and more just acknowledging the fact that, for better or worse, it is happening.  And, if this is happening, maybe a lot of the other things that the consensus in the hobby takes for granted as being a permanent state of affairs might actually be subject to generational/demographic changes over time as well... hm 

You may paint with a broad brush, but remember the craft of your strokes must outweigh the nostalgia of the bristles.

Who knows, one day maybe blue line copy will be the bees knees! :busy::roflmao:

 

giphy-downsized.gif

Edited by dirtymartini1
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On 11/27/2018 at 10:46 AM, Andahaion said:

Yes, if feels as this board certainly leans one way on that question, but no one really knows do they?  I've asserted that I believe this "hobby"' will move into more of a fine art situation...maybe not exactly the same animal, but something similar. 

For the first time, I just got the Heritage Fine Art Auction catalogue mailed to me this week.  I have only bid in their comic art auctions previously and never even visited one of their fine art auction pages.  I think they are trying to get me to move in to that area.  Comparing the prices, there are some nice pieces of what I think are Impressionst and Pre-Raphelite for a fraction of the cost of a Marvel Bronze age page.

Flipping through the Fine Art catalogue, I have never heard of most of the artists.  The thought came to mind that these prices seemed arbitrary in a way that they aren't tied to anything, different in the way comic art is tied to early appearances or the characters.  I felt the fine art value not being tied to anything was a bit like buying bitcoin.

I'm bullish on the comic art.  I've been collecting and reading comics and related history books and websites for decades now, and I've never heard of Master Race until the post on it.  That it brought in so much money suggests to me that there will be this desire for good comic art even if not tied to nostalgia.  

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14 minutes ago, Peter L said:

For the first time, I just got the Heritage Fine Art Auction catalogue mailed to me this week.  I have only bid in their comic art auctions previously and never even visited one of their fine art auction pages.  I think they are trying to get me to move in to that area.  Comparing the prices, there are some nice pieces of what I think are Impressionst and Pre-Raphelite for a fraction of the cost of a Marvel Bronze age page.

Flipping through the Fine Art catalogue, I have never heard of most of the artists.  The thought came to mind that these prices seemed arbitrary in a way that they aren't tied to anything, different in the way comic art is tied to early appearances or the characters.  I felt the fine art value not being tied to anything was a bit like buying bitcoin.

I'm bullish on the comic art.  I've been collecting and reading comics and related history books and websites for decades now, and I've never heard of Master Race until the post on it.  That it brought in so much money suggests to me that there will be this desire for good comic art even if not tied to nostalgia.  

My wife was teasing me about the issue of Intelligent Collector that HA sent me this week....She is starting to put 2 and 2 together  on how much I am spending when these mailers come unannounced ;) 

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9 hours ago, cstojano said:

My wife was teasing me about the issue of Intelligent Collector that HA sent me this week....She is starting to put 2 and 2 together  on how much I am spending when these mailers come unannounced ;) 

And the GD title of the magazine prevents you from playing du mb.  

Thanks HA. 

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On 11/27/2018 at 1:59 PM, jaykza said:

  Also, very much enjoyed listening to Lambert. His commentary is always well grounded and 'real'.

I met Lambert very early on in my collecting. He has definitely shaped how I collect, and how I view the hobby. I've learned so much from him. One of these days, I'll sit down with him for a proper chat.

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2 hours ago, Nexus said:

I met Lambert very early on in my collecting. He has definitely shaped how I collect, and how I view the hobby. I've learned so much from him. One of these days, I'll sit down with him for a proper chat.

 

28 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

Thanks, Felix, Gene. 

Consider doing a panel of this kind at SDCC.  I would love to hear a live panel discuss this stuff and collecting and things like how do you store your art, and about your favorite pieces.

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listened to the podcast.  agree with most of what was said with the exception on frazetta.  I think his art touched different fandoms and has a broader appeal than just to the comic art crowd which should support his prices. 

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