There's a Restored 9.4 Tec 33 Blowing up on Ebay
7 7

895 posts in this topic

1,190 posts
Well hello everybody! I am Emily Meyers, and Matthew Meyers is with me - husband and wife team of restoration company IGB - Investment Grade Books out of Philadelphia Pennsylvania. New here so we'll try and keep up... Some friends mentioned there was meaty discussion re: our work, particularly the Tec 33, so we will try and contribute to clear up all of your questions. For those who support, thanks! And those who don't, we'll do our best to be transparent and hope you don't beat us up too badly!

 

Ok, the Tec 33 was a CGC 6.0 A-3 when we acquired it. It is not a Pedigree, we know. It is recognized as a Biljo White copy, I'll post a pic of the stamp (if I can figure out how to upload), and CBCS identifies this in their grader's notes. The book was a fairly easy fix to get to a 9.4. We de-acidified and mended each wrap to bring it to White. The major problem was the spine - again I will try and attach scans of the original book in a few minutes.. So we replaced the spine with rice paper, methyl cellulose and cellulose powder, re-created the art along the spine (by hand) with acrylic over methyl. The only other color touch on the cover is found at the lower and upper right corners - small amount to clean them up. The back cover ad spread was perfect, so all we did was touch up the spine and edges. This book has a beautiful interior cover, minor color blend along edges, I'll try and post pic after spine replacement and before pressing.

 

The book lays flat, feels natural, opens easily and lays flat when open, no thickness, no cockling, no warping.

 

We use only professional, archival, conservation level materials. We don't use Xerox. In fact we constantly remove Xerox from previously restored books. We only restore previously restored (irreversible) books, with the occasional 1.0 Blue. Whenever possible we reverse previously trimmed books. We disclose every aspect of each specific restoration to Steve Borock and CBCS prior to grading. They receive a detailed pdf with image progressions and explanations of all techniques. For an official, unbiased answer to any question regarding our books, we encourage people to call Steve Borock and the team at CBCS.

 

We don't currently grade with CGC, though we use to. When we did, they always graded our books and graded them very high - I will post a few of our key books in CGC slabs.

 

We don't grade as much with CGC currently because we don't want our proprietary techniques in the hands of CCS - the industry leader and our direct competition. Though we'd like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank Paul and Matt Nelson for their guidance in our early days - we wouldn't be grading as high without their tremendous support! They were tough with us and said: you can't have a book feel this way, etc. As hard as it was to hear some of their critiques, we took note of everything they said and devoted ourselves to doing better, lighter work. But never has our work been photocopy or fake. Matt is a very gifted artist and that's why we don't need to use photocopy in place of lost or damaged art. And the pixelated effect on the Hulk; that was me (Emily), by hand, with acrylic and a 0/20 round detail brush. 30+ hours of work and I have the carpal tunnel to prove it - We don't take short cuts. Also, we don't have clients, therefore we can devote 100 hours to a book if that's what it takes. Most restorers don't have that luxury.

 

We have found that CGC and CBCS grade almost identical. I will also post the same AF15 graded by both companies last winter - both CGC and CBCS graded it 9.4.

 

I also saw people mentioned the 9.8 Hulk on CC - I will post before and after scans. It started as a CGC 8.0 B-2.

 

Sorry longwinded but a lot to cover! Fire away, kick our asses but please be gentle! We hope you see that we love what we do and look forward giving the community some beautiful books for years to come.

 

Emily & Matt

 

 

Very impressed with your professional response and transparency. I think you just won over a lot of people.

 

What he said :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 posts

 

Thanks everyone for the support! Have to get to work now, so we'll check back later this evening and see if there are more questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13,540 posts

I generally like restored books - their price point is much lower and they can be handled without fear. But I have always avoided Extensively Restored books, never having knowingly bought one. The issues being discussed here just further validates the opinion to avoid these type of books.

 

As comic books become more popular and more accepted as collectibles - and therefore more valuable - I suppose it was inevitable that micro trimming, spine roll manipulation, and now these freakish Frankenbooks would find their way into the marketplace. Good grief, what's next?

 

Frankly Emily and Matt, your covers look more like recreations to me than the real thing, and no matter how you try to sell it I don't want any phony appearing comics in my collection, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,461 posts

If by support you mean implying you're colluding in shilling, then you're welcome! But seriously, it's not often I get to eat crow twice in a day, but it's not unknown either. There's a lesson in there.

 

Great response. Though, the optics of those bidders with very low feedback circling around both books is just awful. btw is that your Showcase 4 in the CC auction? or has that already been discussed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22,390 posts

Are cracked out CGC labels handed in ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30,072 posts

This shiznit is about to get very interesting.... :popcorn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
537 posts

I'd like to clarify a few things that Emily brought up concerning CGC's position. CGC did have a concern with several of the books submitted to us earlier this year for reasons previously posted in this thread. I gave Matt and Emily time and advice to guide them in the right direction. Up to the point we stopped receiving submissions there were issues with the work, reflected in our assigning either B or C classifications. A decision was going to be made whether to stop taking books that exhibited questionable work, but submissions ceased.

 

In most cases, CBCS gave higher grades and a professional designation. We have not seen the recent restoration outside of the CBCS holders, so I am not sure our issues with earlier work has been resolved.

 

The point of professional restoration is to return a book back to as close to its original state as possible using reversible materials. When work becomes so extensive that it becomes hard to tell what is real and what is recreated, it is impossible to accurately and fairly represent a grade to the market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,395 posts
Sorry trying to add these files, but boards don't allow large files. For better resolution just email us - thanks!

 

You can put up bigger pics by using www.tinypic.com to upload scans. Just select the photo from your files, then click on "17 in. screen" where it says "Default" before you upload and we will see a bigger pic here...

 

Helpful Brian

Edited by tricolorbrian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,001 posts

Beautiful books for sure. I'd like to own em all. Hauntingly, the whole thing reminds me a little of the Nasdaq circa 2000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,383 posts

Thanks everyone for the support! Have to get to work now, so we'll check back later this evening and see if there are more questions.

 

Welcome to the boards both of you. Thank you for clarifying things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30,072 posts

I'm curious if creating things that weren't there originally should be considered restoration?

For instance...

 

wdcs 1.jpg

wdcs 1 bc.jpg

 

WDC&S 1 8.5 from Heritage http://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/walt-disney-s-comics-and-stories-1-dell-1940-cgc-apparent-vf-85-moderate-a-3-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7147-91167.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

Notice that the 9.8 has a black line down the spine. Emily and Matt created a spine line where none originally existed. It looks nice. But it isn't original. The red on the front and the blue on the back simply met and bled together, but there was never a black spine line. It must have helped them achieve the goal of a higher grade though. And that, in a nutshell, is why I have a problem with all of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30,072 posts
Whenever possible we reverse previously trimmed books.

 

How is that possible?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,634 posts

At this point there is still a bit of a credibility gap between what igb has said and what Matt Nelson just said.

 

Igb said that they didn't go to CGC because Matt is under their umbrella and they didn't want CCS appropriating their restorative techniques.

 

But Matt just confirmed that CGC essentially determined the books were ungradeable and showing restoration techniques that were questionable.

 

Evidently Voldy has no such qualms and will grade anything for the business and that's why these books are in the slabs they are.

 

-J.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13,540 posts
Whenever possible we reverse previously trimmed books.

 

How is that possible?

 

By enlisting the aid of fairies, unicorns, and leprechauns you silly fellow!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30,072 posts
At this point there is still a bit of a credibility gap between what igb has said and what Matt Nelson just said.

 

Igb said that they didn't go to CGC because Matt is under their umbrella and they didn't want CCS appropriating their restorative techniques.

 

But Matt just confirmed that CGC essentially determined the books were ungradeable and showing restoration techniques that were questionable.

 

Evidently Voldy has no such qualms and will grade anything for the business and that's why these books are in the slabs they are.

 

-J.

Bingo.

 

As I've said before, I have no problem with Matt and Emily doing whatever they want to with their books. Paint 'em. Lacquer 'em. Hell, burn 'em up. I really don't care. But I do have a big problem with one of the grading companies validating this extensive level of cosmetic recreation with a high numerical "apparent" grade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22,390 posts
But I do have a big problem with one of the grading companies validating this extensive level of cosmetic recreation with a high numerical "apparent" grade.

 

Once again, the finger in fact needs to be pointed at CBCS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,491 posts
Whenever possible we reverse previously trimmed books.

 

How is that possible?

 

By enlisting the aid of fairies, unicorns, and leprechauns you silly fellow!

 

While the Fairy option would work I would assume they would leaf cast along the entire edge that was trimmed to the point where paper originally was.

 

Not logical to think Unicorns or Leprechauns could restore a comic.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22,390 posts
Whenever possible we reverse previously trimmed books.

 

How is that possible?

 

By enlisting the aid of fairies, unicorns, and leprechauns you silly fellow!

 

they would leaf cast along the entire edge that was trimmed to the point where paper originally was.

 

 

Kenny spoke to me of this but CGC would nonethelss put "Trimmed" on the label. CBCS would certainly give it a (thumbs u

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
7 7