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There's a Restored 9.4 Tec 33 Blowing up on Ebay

Started by Jaydogrules,

895 posts in this topic

MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
Whenever possible we reverse previously trimmed books.

 

How is that possible?

 

By enlisting the aid of fairies, unicorns, and leprechauns you silly fellow!

 

While the Fairy option would work I would assume they would leaf cast along the entire edge that was trimmed to the point where paper originally was.

 

Not logical to think Unicorns or Leprechauns could restore a comic.

 

Ask them if they do leaf-casting.

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*matterus023*

*matterus023*

Posted
Posted
Whenever possible we reverse previously trimmed books.

 

How is that possible?

 

By enlisting the aid of fairies, unicorns, and leprechauns you silly fellow!

 

they would leaf cast along the entire edge that was trimmed to the point where paper originally was.

 

 

Kenny spoke to me of this but CGC would nonethelss put "Trimmed" on the label. CBCS would certainly give it a (thumbs u

 

This shows that cgc will give a no trimmed label once added paper applied though?

 

http://www.eclipsepaper.com/showcase%2022.html

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bluechip

bluechip

Posted
Posted

People keep coming back to trying to determine what level is "acceptable" or not, looking for one company or the other to designate some kind of tipping point and some kind of labeling which would prevent any confusion about how much was done, when there are no such benchmarks or labels that would do anything as thoroughly and consistently and unambiguously as simply including scans of the book before restoration.

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*matterus023*

*matterus023*

Posted
Posted

This shows that cgc will give a no trimmed label once added paper applied though?

http://www.eclipsepaper.com/showcase%2022.html

 

Awesome :facepalm:

 

Only good thing is it went from Slight to Ext.

 

I thought you would like that one :-)

 

Just shows that not everything said or what you hear is true people

 

Now I think that which ever company you are talking about here that it should be labelled it was previously trimmed. Imagine if it came back and someone went to take off the work not realising that by doing so they would be left with a trimmed copy. OUCH

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*matterus023*

*matterus023*

Posted
Posted

 

That is fair but you mentioned the blue, Just showing that another copy looks darker :-)

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woowoo

woowoo

Posted
Posted

 

That is fair but you mentioned the blue, Just showing that another copy looks darker :-)

 

We call that even :headbang:

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*matterus023*

*matterus023*

Posted
Posted

 

That is fair but you mentioned the blue, Just showing that another copy looks darker :-)

 

We call that even :headbang:

 

I will take that :applause:

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Columbia Comics

Columbia Comics

Posted
Posted

This shows that cgc will give a no trimmed label once added paper applied though?

http://www.eclipsepaper.com/showcase%2022.html

 

Awesome :facepalm:

 

Only good thing is it went from Slight to Ext.

 

I thought you would like that one :-)

 

Just shows that not everything said or what you hear is true people

 

Now I think that which ever company you are talking about here that it should be labelled it was previously trimmed. Imagine if it came back and someone went to take off the work not realising that by doing so they would be left with a trimmed copy. OUCH

 

All the more reason to buy unrestored books...least it's considered free of "work" while in the holder. Whether that is actually 100% accurate, that's still a (Journey into) Mystery :)

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lou_fine

lou_fine

Posted
Posted
But I do have a big problem with one of the grading companies validating this extensive level of cosmetic recreation with a high numerical "apparent" grade.

 

Once again, the finger in fact needs to be pointed at CBCS.

 

Not necessarily just at the other grading company!

 

From some of the scans that are being provided here, it looks like you will have to point your fingers at both of the major grading companies, since both of them are giving high numerical apparent grades to some extensively restored books. :gossip:

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Inaflash

Inaflash

Posted
Posted

 

That is fair but you mentioned the blue, Just showing that another copy looks darker :-)

 

We call that even :headbang:

 

I will take that :applause:

 

The whole scan is darker and the lighting from the scanners is different. Comparing different scans of different books will not give any useful information on the actual color of the book.

 

Ken

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*matterus023*

*matterus023*

Posted
Posted

 

That is fair but you mentioned the blue, Just showing that another copy looks darker :-)

 

We call that even :headbang:

 

I will take that :applause:

 

The whole scan is darker and the lighting from the scanners is different. Comparing different scans of different books will not give any useful information on the actual color of the book.

 

Ken

 

I agree which is why I wanted to show that using another picture

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AJD

AJD

Posted
Posted
...

 

The point of professional restoration is to return a book back to as close to its original state as possible using reversible materials. When work becomes so extensive that it becomes hard to tell what is real and what is recreated, it is impossible to accurately and fairly represent a grade to the market.

 

I'm intrigued by this comment. I know you're using some shorthand here, but if it is hard to tell the difference between original and recreated, surely that's the definition of successful restoration?

 

And if it really is that hard to tell, why does anyone have a problem with any grading company assigning a high apparent grade with accompanying notes of extensive restoration?

 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, if perfect recreation becomes possible so that there is no way to tell, does the difference between blue and purple become moot?

 

These are unsettling possibilities.

 

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lou_fine

lou_fine

Posted
Posted

 

Igb said that they didn't go to CGC because Matt is under their umbrella and they didn't want CCS appropriating their restorative techniques.

 

Valid point here as CGC and CCS would definitely see this new upstart company as a competitor to their own business. As a result, it would not behoove CGC to say anything positive about this company since there is a definite conflict of interest here.

 

But Matt just confirmed that CGC essentially determined the books were ungradeable and showing restoration techniques that were questionable.

 

No, you are referring to a past reference, whereas Matt is stating that he has not actually seen the recent books out of their slabbed holders. There is a big difference here.

 

 

We have not seen the recent restoration outside of the CBCS holders, so I am not sure our issues with earlier work has been resolved.

 

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*matterus023*

*matterus023*

Posted
Posted

 

Igb said that they didn't go to CGC because Matt is under their umbrella and they didn't want CCS appropriating their restorative techniques.

 

Valid point here as CGC and CCS would definitely see this new upstart company as a competitor to their own business. As a result, it would not behoove CGC to say anything positive about this company since there is a definite conflict of interest here.

 

But Matt just confirmed that CGC essentially determined the books were ungradeable and showing restoration techniques that were questionable.

 

No, you are referring to a past reference, whereas Matt is stating that he has not actually seen the recent books out of their slabbed holders. There is a big difference here.

 

 

We have not seen the recent restoration outside of the CBCS holders, so I am not sure our issues with earlier work has been resolved.

 

 

Finally someone else is seeing what I am seeing

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lou_fine

lou_fine

Posted
Posted
I'm curious if creating things that weren't there originally should be considered restoration?

For instance...

 

wdcs 1.jpg

wdcs 1 bc.jpg

 

WDC&S 1 8.5 from Heritage http://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/walt-disney-s-comics-and-stories-1-dell-1940-cgc-apparent-vf-85-moderate-a-3-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7147-91167.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

Notice that the 9.8 has a black line down the spine. Emily and Matt created a spine line where none originally existed. It looks nice. But it isn't original. The red on the front and the blue on the back simply met and bled together, but there was never a black spine line. It must have helped them achieve the goal of a higher grade though. And that, in a nutshell, is why I have a problem with all of this.

 

Good catch here, Richard! (thumbs u

 

Since there was something extra that was added which is not supposed to be on the book, isn't this normally treated as a defect from a condition grading point of view. Similar to a pen scrawl or writing, I would assume this additional black line should be considered as a defect that would reduce the grade of the book.

 

From what I am seeing here, it would appear that the graders may have missed this "addition" of the black line, and as you say, may have mistakenly given the book a higher grade than it is rightfully entitled to. hm

 

Of course, we have also seen grading mistakes in the past from both of the grading companies. (shrug)

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AJD

AJD

Posted
Posted

 

Valid point here as CGC and CCS would definitely see this new upstart company as a competitor to their own business. As a result, it would not behoove CGC to say anything positive about this company since there is a definite conflict of interest here.

 

 

And this is one of the reasons that make the marriage between a grading company and a conservation company problematic - as was predicted by many when it happened.

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