There's a Restored 9.4 Tec 33 Blowing up on Ebay

[igb-migration]

Hi Guys - Happy New Year!

 

CGC has graded every book we have ever submitted. And they have graded every book very highly. Just to clear up thanks!

 

Emily & Matt

 

Is it your understanding all of the books you currently have for sale in CBCS holders if cracked and submitted to CGC would be graded?

 

Great question, but that would be their decision. I don't see why they wouldn't. They have graded EVERYTHING we have ever submitted. Since we stopped grading with them we have only become far better with our abilities. Initially Steve Borock made it clear that our books could improve regarding (natural) feel, flexibility, thickness (we now use a micrometer on each cover to maintain an accurate mm deviation for SA and GA covers) light-handedness, etc... These were the same points that Matt Nelson felt we should improve and we have made it our mission to do so. This Tec 33 is a great example of all of these points being addressed and mastered.

 

There are several reasons we predominantly use CBCS. The fact that CCS is sister to CGC was a red flag for us. The level of professionalism, honesty and moral code that CBCS displayed was a big attraction. We ultimately phased out CGC grading our books earlier this year when they graded our Tec 29 an 8.0 - and if I remember correctly a B-5. Of course no hard feelings, that's just their opinion. But it was clear to us that the book should be graded higher and certainly professional. We broke it out, drove it over to CBCS and had it graded same-day. It did grade a CBCS 9.0 XP. Up until this point we used both companies and ran tests every so often where we had both grade the same book. This was the first significant discrepancy. We felt the 9.0 XP was not only more accurate, but would obviously fetch a better price.

[AnkurJ]

Curious what everyone things about this book. Its a copy I have owned for 15 years and had it restored a few years ago by Matt and Kenny (CCS).

 

[Moondog]

It looks so beautiful but not natural.

[kinzebac]

Curious what everyone things about this book. Its a copy I have owned for 15 years and had it restored a few years ago.

 

 

 

 

I think the copy looks extremely nice.

[igb-migration]

To ThothAmon,

 

We sold an AF15 earlier this fall, thought a bunch of bidders with low feedback were fake, so we deleted bids on last day, ended up losing a lot - confused buyers. Found out later they were legit. At same token we've had 3000 positive feedback buyers win and not be able to pay. So you never know. As far as we are aware looks legit, most are repeat buyers in the bid cue.

 

Out of curiosity, how did you find out later that all of the low-feedback bidders were legitimate?

 

Long story short - We had an AF15 on auction. A customer messaged us all the time to sell for 9500 (while it was previously on 11k BIN). All the time, several times a day. Bidding was up 7 something on last day. It shot up to 20k which was ridiculous for a (I think) 9.2 XP. Looked like 4 of the bidders had less than 10 feedback. The 9500 buyer started messaging that we had false bidders tanking the sale. Between thinking these bidders were him and that our regular buyers would be annoyed with the apparent shenanigans, we called ebay and asked advice. They said we could cancel the bids and block the buyers. Book price dropped and one of our regulars picked it up for I think 8700. Next day we receive 3 different messages from the 4 low feedback buyers asking why they were deleted? We explained and they were a bit confused because they were new to ebay but ultimately understanding. Since then we have stayed in touch with two of the bidders and have sold privately to both. In fact, one of them is currently top bid on the Tec 33. So we feel that ebay is not as sound or reliable as say CC, HA or Link, but we don't discount low feedback bids anymore.

[AnkurJ]

It looks so beautiful but not natural.

 

The only thing done was the spine being rebuilt. The rest of the cover is in original condition with no color touch, piece replacement, or cleaning.

[woowoo]

It looks so beautiful but not natural.

 

The only thing done was the spine being rebuilt. The rest of the cover is in original condition with no color touch, piece replacement, or cleaning.

 

Think it looks great. How did the spine get that bad ? The book looks 8.0 plus so how did the spine split Brittle maybe.? I would love to have it.

[AnkurJ]

It looks so beautiful but not natural.

 

The only thing done was the spine being rebuilt. The rest of the cover is in original condition with no color touch, piece replacement, or cleaning.

 

Think it looks great. How did the spine get that bad ? The book looks 8.0 plus so how did the spine split Brittle maybe.? I would love to have it.

 

No idea. When I bought it, it had tape on the interior and exterior spine, and the outside tape was covered with CT to match the cover colors. Kenny removed everything and went from there.

[igb-migration]

It looks so beautiful but not natural.

 

The only thing done was the spine being rebuilt. The rest of the cover is in original condition with no color touch, piece replacement, or cleaning.

 

Think it looks great. How did the spine get that bad ? The book looks 8.0 plus so how did the spine split Brittle maybe.? I would love to have it.

 

No idea. When I bought it, it had tape on the interior and exterior spine, and the outside tape was covered with CT to match the cover colors. Kenny removed everything and went from there.

 

Looks great! Nice job! Goodnight all and Happy New Year!

 

Emily

[Hibou]

That's amazing... I mean it looks great!

 

And it seems (to me) like Emily and Matt are being honest and I for one, love hearing about restorative and conservative measures taken with comics.

 

It's something I wish I could learn to do for a living.

[Moondog]

It looks so beautiful but not natural.

 

The only thing done was the spine being rebuilt. The rest of the cover is in original condition with no color touch, piece replacement, or cleaning.

 

It's probably the lighting/angle of the photo then.

[Johnny545]

Hi Guys - Happy New Year!

 

CGC has graded every book we have ever submitted. And they have graded every book very highly. Just to clear up thanks!

 

Emily & Matt

 

Is it your understanding all of the books you currently have for sale in CBCS holders if cracked and submitted to CGC would be graded?

 

Great question, but that would be their decision. I don't see why they wouldn't. They have graded EVERYTHING we have ever submitted. Since we stopped grading with them we have only become far better with our abilities. Initially Steve Borock made it clear that our books could improve regarding (natural) feel, flexibility, thickness (we now use a micrometer on each cover to maintain an accurate mm deviation for SA and GA covers) light-handedness, etc... These were the same points that Matt Nelson felt we should improve and we have made it our mission to do so. This Tec 33 is a great example of all of these points being addressed and mastered.

 

There are several reasons we predominantly use CBCS. The fact that CCS is sister to CGC was a red flag for us. The level of professionalism, honesty and moral code that CBCS displayed was a big attraction. We ultimately phased out CGC grading our books earlier this year when they graded our Tec 29 an 8.0 - and if I remember correctly a B-5. Of course no hard feelings, that's just their opinion. But it was clear to us that the book should be graded higher and certainly professional. We broke it out, drove it over to CBCS and had it graded same-day. It did grade a CBCS 9.0 XP. Up until this point we used both companies and ran tests every so often where we had both grade the same book. This was the first significant discrepancy. We felt the 9.0 XP was not only more accurate, but would obviously fetch a better price.

 

Greatly appreciate this response, thank you.

[lou_fine]

 

How do you know what it looked like initially? Also with today's work, a 1.5 can be made much higher. A book that is sharp aside from a spine split could easily make it to 9.0 or higher.

 

Since I am not a restoration expert in the least, I would assume that books which were originally only in the 1.5 range and have been initially restored the first time to something in the 8.0 range or even as high as 9.0 would not be designated as only SP or MP. My guess is that since the initial restoration work were only SP or MP, the original condition grade of the unrestored books were most likely higher than the 1.5 or so range which you are referring to.

 

You can't get a 1.5 to an 8.0 with moderate work.

 

 

Then it sounds as though we are both saying the same thing.

 

Since these guys appear to be normally starting off with SP or MP restored books in the 8.0 ranger or thereabouts, and then maxing out their potential into the 9.4 range or thereabouts, I would agree with your last statement that the books were not in the 1.5 grade range prior to their first restoration work.

 

It's just that your first comment appear to indicate that the original books could possibly have started off as 1.5 graded books before any restoration work was done to them.

[lou_fine]

It looks so beautiful but not natural.

 

The only thing done was the spine being rebuilt. The rest of the cover is in original condition with no color touch, piece replacement, or cleaning.

 

It certainly does look very beautiful as this is one of my very favorite pre-Robin 'Tec covers.

 

I guess Moondog is thinking that it might possibly be re-glossed and possibly over glossed since it appears so bright and beautiful, rather similar to the scans from the Meyers which some of the other board members are concerned about.

[AnkurJ]

Actually, one thing I loved about the book is that it had very nice and sharp colors. There was no re-glossing added to it. Kenny did a nice job on it.

[VintageComics]

Are many of us forgetting the Detective comics 27 that was in a CGC 9.2 Extensive holder, and now resides in a CGC 9.4 Moderate holder? No resto was removed from the book, but it was re-evaluated and maxed out. Restoration techniques have changed substantially from the years of grafting individual pieces of paper. With leafcasting, every defect is easily filled in, and if you so desire, you can color touch over everything to make the book look better than when it hit the newsstand.

 

But calling all restored books frankenbooks when you don't know what has been done to them is not correct if you ask me. Many books are restored in a way to improve their structural integrity and their overall appearance. When I restored my Action 7, I chose not to color touch the leafcasted areas as I didn't feel it was necessary, and the work could be reversed if need be. Adding color touch and blending it into the actual cover makes the work a little harder to undo.

 

Most people who restore do so with the best interest of the book and to preserve it. If people are doing resto for their own financial gain, then yes, they will do everything possible to max out the book, which appears to be the case with these books. However, I do not feel this should define the entire restored book market.

 

 

 

CGC 9.2 Extensive holder to 9.4 Moderate holder still has me thinking but you are 100% right with the rest of your post ( IMO ) Matt did my Action 10 and did little color that did not match up good but it could be undone easy. I would love unrestored Action 1 to 10 in poor grade but the 1 alone would cost more than the set Restored.

 

 

Resto standards have changed but so have resto designation standards. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't that old book graded under CGC's old grading standards and the new book under the updated resto designations?

[AnkurJ]

Are many of us forgetting the Detective comics 27 that was in a CGC 9.2 Extensive holder, and now resides in a CGC 9.4 Moderate holder? No resto was removed from the book, but it was re-evaluated and maxed out. Restoration techniques have changed substantially from the years of grafting individual pieces of paper. With leafcasting, every defect is easily filled in, and if you so desire, you can color touch over everything to make the book look better than when it hit the newsstand.

 

But calling all restored books frankenbooks when you don't know what has been done to them is not correct if you ask me. Many books are restored in a way to improve their structural integrity and their overall appearance. When I restored my Action 7, I chose not to color touch the leafcasted areas as I didn't feel it was necessary, and the work could be reversed if need be. Adding color touch and blending it into the actual cover makes the work a little harder to undo.

 

Most people who restore do so with the best interest of the book and to preserve it. If people are doing resto for their own financial gain, then yes, they will do everything possible to max out the book, which appears to be the case with these books. However, I do not feel this should define the entire restored book market.

 

 

 

CGC 9.2 Extensive holder to 9.4 Moderate holder still has me thinking but you are 100% right with the rest of your post ( IMO ) Matt did my Action 10 and did little color that did not match up good but it could be undone easy. I would love unrestored Action 1 to 10 in poor grade but the 1 alone would cost more than the set Restored.

 

 

Resto standards have changed but so have resto designation standards. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't that old book graded under CGC's old grading standards and the new book under the updated resto designations?

 

Yes. So going from Extensive to Moderate would mean their stance on restoration has softened, no?

[PovertyRow]

So going from Extensive to Moderate would mean their stance on restoration has softened, no?

 

It may be a difference in the perception of "conservation" vs "restoration". That is, techniques now deemed conservation were at one time included in restoration. So with those conservation techniques out of the restoration picture, that could account for a bump down as in Ext to Mod or Mod to Sl.

[woowoo]

Are many of us forgetting the Detective comics 27 that was in a CGC 9.2 Extensive holder, and now resides in a CGC 9.4 Moderate holder? No resto was removed from the book, but it was re-evaluated and maxed out. Restoration techniques have changed substantially from the years of grafting individual pieces of paper. With leafcasting, every defect is easily filled in, and if you so desire, you can color touch over everything to make the book look better than when it hit the newsstand.

 

But calling all restored books frankenbooks when you don't know what has been done to them is not correct if you ask me. Many books are restored in a way to improve their structural integrity and their overall appearance. When I restored my Action 7, I chose not to color touch the leafcasted areas as I didn't feel it was necessary, and the work could be reversed if need be. Adding color touch and blending it into the actual cover makes the work a little harder to undo.

 

Most people who restore do so with the best interest of the book and to preserve it. If people are doing resto for their own financial gain, then yes, they will do everything possible to max out the book, which appears to be the case with these books. However, I do not feel this should define the entire restored book market.

 

 

 

CGC 9.2 Extensive holder to 9.4 Moderate holder still has me thinking but you are 100% right with the rest of your post ( IMO ) Matt did my Action 10 and did little color that did not match up good but it could be undone easy. I would love unrestored Action 1 to 10 in poor grade but the 1 alone would cost more than the set Restored.

 

 

Resto standards have changed but so have resto designation standards. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't that old book graded under CGC's old grading standards and the new book under the updated resto designations?

 

Yes old label 9.2 E to new 9.4 M

[woowoo]

So going from Extensive to Moderate would mean their stance on restoration has softened, no?

 

It may be a difference in the perception of "conservation" vs "restoration". That is, techniques now deemed conservation were at one time included in restoration. So with those conservation techniques out of the restoration picture, that could account for a bump down as in Ext to Mod or Mod to Sl.

 

Great point. I might even think that makes sense.